the purple confuse proc has a chance of having an AoE confuse effect on surrounding targets
the best place to put the proc is in a single target because then it has the chance to be an AoE, putting in a power thats already an AoE will hardly notice any effect
It's been a while so I'm not sure this is right. I believe the proc is a 33% chance to tag a target as "Contagious." The Contagious target then spreads a 10 second, Mag 3 Confuse to targets within (10? 15? ft). Enemies hit by the Contagious portion of the power are not Contagious themselves. How the proc works in each Control power that can slot it is listed below:
Confuse/Deceive (single target Confusion) - 33% chance to make target Contagious. Enemies who dodge power cannot be hit by the proc.
Seeds of Confusion/Mass Confusion (aoe Confusion) - 33% chance per target hit. Enemies who dodge power cannot be hit by the proc.
Arctic Air/World of Confusion (pulsing Confusion) - 33% chance per target in area, every 10 seconds. The base powers are auto-hit and cannot be dodged.
What about target cap? If you have more enemies than target cap around you, and your Mass Confusion hits 16 targets, can you hit up to 30/40/50 targets?
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I would STRONGLY disagree with this. Putting the Contagious Confusion proc in a single target confuse (Illusion's Deceive or Mind's Confuse) is wonderful because it can hit anywhere from one extra to five or six. If you miss the target, the proc doesn't work.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
the purple confuse proc has a chance of having an AoE confuse effect on surrounding targets
the best place to put the proc is in a single target because then it has the chance to be an AoE, putting in a power thats already an AoE will hardly notice any effect |
However in an AoE confuse power, it allows you to stack mag for 10 seconds -- you have a chance to confuse a boss for 10 seconds. Plus, it can hit guys that you may have missed. (You can see that in something like Seeds of Confusion, because the 10 sec confuse from the proc is shorter than the confuse from Seeds.) Plus, in a short duration confuse power (like Arctic Air), the proc will last longer than the confuse from the power, making the power far, far more effective. When I slotted the Congious Confusion proc in Arctic Air, it seemed to substantially increase the effectiveness of the power.
I definitely plan to slot it in Synaptic Overload, the chaining confuse power in the Electric set.
I'm not sure what the target cap is. I don't recall seeing more than 6-8 hit by the proc -- and I use it a lot in all three of my level 50 Illusion Controllers as well as my Ice/Storm. Every now and then, a single Deceive will confuse an entire small group of foes, but it usually only gets 2-5.
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Maybe I didn't ask clearly. I'll try to make sense
Launch your AoE. It hits 16 enemies, and confuses all of them. The proc hits as well. So, here's what I'm wondering:
Imagine 1 out of those 16 enemies you just hit. The proc hits him, and 5 surrounding enemies get confused as well.
Now, Imagine the 2nd enemy in that mob. Does the proc hit him as well, since the power hit him? If so, the effect just spread to another 5 enemies.
Rinse, repeat. 16 enemies. The proc spread from each of them, to another 5 enemies. 16x5=80+(original 16)=96 enemies. Potentially. Now take into effect that tossing that AoE into a mob, the proc is probably going to hit a decent number of the ones that already got hit anyway. Let's say 1 in 5 were not actually hit by the original AoE. 80/5+16=32. So if you manage to actually bring 96 enemies together, which is doable with a whole team herding, maybe some brutes/tanks. Seems like more effort than it's worth maybe, but think about it. If you can manage to confuse 30 enemies, that's a lot of damage being thrown around, alot of it landing on the other 60 enemies in that pile. Throw a few AoE damage powers out, and you'll get more XP than you lose from the confuse/xp loss equation.
Will this be used often? Probably not. Is it more effective than putting the proc into single target? Maybe not. But is it possible? Do the mechanics allow it.
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I'm not sure on the math there, but it's definitely possible. Keeping it as simple as possible, figure the group is big enough you hit 16 targets.... then Contagious Confusion would, on average, proc 5-6 times. Many of those procs would over lap, going back to people that were already hit, but it is in the realm of possibility that just doesn't happen and you hit an extra 20-30, so you're in the end hitting 40 something guys. |
Originally Posted by Elimist
Maybe I didn't ask clearly. I'll try to make sense
Launch your AoE. It hits 16 enemies, and confuses all of them. The proc hits as well. So, here's what I'm wondering: Imagine 1 out of those 16 enemies you just hit. The proc hits him, and 5 surrounding enemies get confused as well. Now, Imagine the 2nd enemy in that mob. Does the proc hit him as well, since the power hit him? If so, the effect just spread to another 5 enemies. Rinse, repeat. 16 enemies. The proc spread from each of them, to another 5 enemies. 16x5=80+(original 16)=96 enemies. Potentially. Now take into effect that tossing that AoE into a mob, the proc is probably going to hit a decent number of the ones that already got hit anyway. Let's say 1 in 5 were not actually hit by the original AoE. 80/5+16=32. So if you manage to actually bring 96 enemies together, which is doable with a whole team herding, maybe some brutes/tanks. Seems like more effort than it's worth maybe, but think about it. If you can manage to confuse 30 enemies, that's a lot of damage being thrown around, alot of it landing on the other 60 enemies in that pile. Throw a few AoE damage powers out, and you'll get more XP than you lose from the confuse/xp loss equation. Will this be used often? Probably not. Is it more effective than putting the proc into single target? Maybe not. But is it possible? Do the mechanics allow it. |
The problem is that's probably not going to happen. What was already stated is the biggest advantage here, because with a mob of say 20-25, you have a good chance to hit ALL of them. If someone was missed, they don't count toward the 16 max count so with a decent chance to hit and 20-25 enemies, you're going to hit all 16 and proc about 5 times. I wouldn't expect to hit 30-40 though, let alone 60.
...I digress, it would be "POSSIBLE" to hit 60. If you happen to proc more than the average amount expected and the proc hit enemies not already confused. This is INCREDIBLY unlikely though.
@Gilia1
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I play villains on Virtue.
I have it in Synaptic Overload on my Dom, and I may be wrong, but it appears to have a chance to proc on each jump.
If you have an elec control character, I -highly- suggest putting it in Synaptic Overload.w
It makes me happy each time I see it proc.
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Is it possible? Not sure. Is it likely -- I would say no, especially since when the proc hits for an AoE confuse, it is far more likely that the proc will stack on other foes who are also confused. For example, say you use Seeds of Confusion with the proc in it. Assume you hit 10 out of 15 with the cone. Maybe 3-4 of the hits will proc, and the proc will hit 1-5 extra foes nearest the hit that procced. Wouldn't you think is is likely that the proc is going to hit mostly foes who are already confused by the original cast? You will most likely stack the mag on foes who were hit by Seeds . . . which is nice if you hit a boss who would otherwise not be confused. You may get an extra 2-5 foes with a 10 sec confuse, also, if they are close enough.
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Originally Posted by Elimist
Maybe I didn't ask clearly. I'll try to make sense
Launch your AoE. It hits 16 enemies, and confuses all of them. The proc hits as well. So, here's what I'm wondering: Imagine 1 out of those 16 enemies you just hit. The proc hits him, and 5 surrounding enemies get confused as well. Now, Imagine the 2nd enemy in that mob. Does the proc hit him as well, since the power hit him? If so, the effect just spread to another 5 enemies. Rinse, repeat. 16 enemies. The proc spread from each of them, to another 5 enemies. 16x5=80+(original 16)=96 enemies. Potentially. Now take into effect that tossing that AoE into a mob, the proc is probably going to hit a decent number of the ones that already got hit anyway. Let's say 1 in 5 were not actually hit by the original AoE. 80/5+16=32. So if you manage to actually bring 96 enemies together, which is doable with a whole team herding, maybe some brutes/tanks. Seems like more effort than it's worth maybe, but think about it. If you can manage to confuse 30 enemies, that's a lot of damage being thrown around, alot of it landing on the other 60 enemies in that pile. Throw a few AoE damage powers out, and you'll get more XP than you lose from the confuse/xp loss equation. Will this be used often? Probably not. Is it more effective than putting the proc into single target? Maybe not. But is it possible? Do the mechanics allow it. |
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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Originally Posted by Elimist
Maybe I didn't ask clearly. I'll try to make sense
Launch your AoE. It hits 16 enemies, and confuses all of them. The proc hits as well. So, here's what I'm wondering: Imagine 1 out of those 16 enemies you just hit. The proc hits him, and 5 surrounding enemies get confused as well. Now, Imagine the 2nd enemy in that mob. Does the proc hit him as well, since the power hit him? If so, the effect just spread to another 5 enemies. Rinse, repeat. 16 enemies. The proc spread from each of them, to another 5 enemies. 16x5=80+(original 16)=96 enemies. Potentially. Now take into effect that tossing that AoE into a mob, the proc is probably going to hit a decent number of the ones that already got hit anyway. Let's say 1 in 5 were not actually hit by the original AoE. 80/5+16=32. So if you manage to actually bring 96 enemies together, which is doable with a whole team herding, maybe some brutes/tanks. Seems like more effort than it's worth maybe, but think about it. If you can manage to confuse 30 enemies, that's a lot of damage being thrown around, alot of it landing on the other 60 enemies in that pile. Throw a few AoE damage powers out, and you'll get more XP than you lose from the confuse/xp loss equation. Will this be used often? Probably not. Is it more effective than putting the proc into single target? Maybe not. But is it possible? Do the mechanics allow it. |
I'm not certain I have the math right but here is my basic guess.
Your absolute best odds for achieving something like you're describing would be using Synaptic Overload on a tightly packed crowd. Once you get past the 5% chance of missing the first enemy, your odds of hitting the other 14 are more less 100%. That would put you at 15 confused enemies.
The proc has a 33% chance to fire. At that rate, on average it will go off about 2 (10% chance) to 4 (1% chance) times per group hit. Something Arcanaville had said is that Synaptic Overload always bypasses enemies who are currently confused (I think that's what she meant--it definitely bypasses enemies who have recently been chained to in any case). If that understanding is correct, when the proc fires it very well could confuse the 5 enemies closest to you, which then causes Synaptic Overload to reach out further than it normally would for the next jump (as long as the distance doesnt exceed 15 ft). If that were to happen, and mob placement was perfectly ideal, you'd average average 20-30 enemies confused, but the ones hit by the proc would only be confused for 10 seconds.
The absolute cap on how many you could confuse at once is 15 + (15 x 5) = 90. The odds of ever hitting that many are really low though. Assuming you made your initial To Hit roll and everything after that connects, your best chance to hit the full 90 is 0.33^15 = 0.0000059%. (The chances with a power like Seeds of Confusion are even lower, since the chances of even hitting all 16 enemies in the first place is just 46% in a best case scenario, compared to Synaptic's ~5%, depending on how enemies are positioned).
This doesn't mean SO isn't useful in a chain power but it's not going to confuse whole armies (just partial ones
).
How does the purple confuse proc (at work lol and can't remember name) work when used on a single target confuse power? what about an aoe confuse like MC or SoC?