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If you want, you can PM Castle about your concerns and make him cry ... again. Fire and energy attacks are supposed to light the oil slick. If it doesn't, it's a bug. Sonic blast is supposed to ignite the slick, too.
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Originally Posted by TheXor
Can it be done? When teaming with a Fire/Kin, it ignites pretty easily. However, my blazing arrow and taser (tech origin) will not do it, although I've read that both attacks should ignite the slick. I've been teaming with a Fire/SD/Blaze tonight and he couldn't ignite the thing either after multiple attempts.
Anyone else had the same problems? |
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
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Look for a fix very, very soon.|
Originally Posted by TheXor
Can it be done? When teaming with a Fire/Kin, it ignites pretty easily. However, my blazing arrow and taser (tech origin) will not do it, although I've read that both attacks should ignite the slick. I've been teaming with a Fire/SD/Blaze tonight and he couldn't ignite the thing either after multiple attempts.
Anyone else had the same problems? |
I want to know why some people still think TA is weak. It sooo is not. If anything it is under-rated.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
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I'll believe that when I see it. Castle's been trying to fix it for years now.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
Look for a fix very, very soon.
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OP: Oil Slick is known to be very... fickle. It should be igniting 100% of the time, but for some reason it doesn't. Castle and the powers team know about it and trying to find the root of the problem and fix it has caused no end of grief for them.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
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Originally Posted by JayboH
Look for a fix very, very soon.
I want to know why some people still think TA is weak. It sooo is not. If anything it is under-rated. |
It's distinctly average and very late-blooming. Especially compared to the other debuff sets (well Cold is also late-blooming but Cold is nastier in terms of what debuffs it has as well).
I like Trick Arrow, but to me it seems a jack of all trades and master of none. Plus, with the animation times and redraw, it seems that the battle is over by the time I lay down all my debuffs.
There are no buffs, either. I can think of two that would be feasible and easy to add: Triage Arrow and Force Field arrow. Both stuck in one place and will do essentially what the Traps equivalents will do. If I redid TA from the beginning, I would add several new arrows and make the user choose up to nine of them - that way one could make themselves more buff-centric or debuff-centric.
Oh, and I'm sorry but I don't buy the "we can't fix the OSA lighting bug" thing. If you can't fix it, then replace the power with new code so that it will work. Have two OSA buttons if needed: one that is just the slick, and one that will light after 1 second after hitting.
"...freedom isn't a commodity to compromise." -- Captain America, New Avengers #21
Guide to Base Teleporters
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The problem with Trick Arrow is that it's to focused on one thing and not flexible enough. It does do a decent job of boosting damage through resistance debuffs and OSA but outside that it's weak. The other powers in the set are intended to provide damage mitigation but they don't really provide that much mitigation and virtually no alpha strike mitigation (EMP Arrow does provide good mitigation but it has a very long recharge).|
Originally Posted by JayboH
I want to know why some people still think TA is weak. It sooo is not. If anything it is under-rated.
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So the end result is that several other sets (Rad and Traps in particular) provide almost as much damage bonus but couple it with significantly better damage mitigation. The core problem with several sets (TA, Empathy, Kinetics and Force Fields) is that they are over-specialized. They do one thing VERY well (more damage for TA and Kin, mitigation for Empathy and FF) but lose to more generalized sets that provide both damage mitigation and extra damage in more balanced amounts.
It should also be noticed that several of these sets work better on Controllers than Defenders since the Controller can use his primary powers to help compensate for the over-specialized nature of his secondary.
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Originally Posted by CaptA
There are no buffs, either. I can think of two that would be feasible and easy to add: Triage Arrow and Force Field arrow. Both stuck in one place and will do essentially what the Traps equivalents will do. If I redid TA from the beginning, I would add several new arrows and make the user choose up to nine of them - that way one could make themselves more buff-centric or debuff-centric.
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I too like the idea that TA is a pure debuff set. It is the polar opposite of Empathy and then all the other sets fall in between with a mix of buff/debuff powers.
I just wish that TA was better at it.
Empathy is a very strong pure buff set.
Cold, Rad, Kin, Therm and Traps are very strong mixed buff/debuff sets (some more focused on buff, while others more debuff)
TA should outshine the hybrids at debuffing because it offers no buffing. That just seems logical to me.
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Apparently the tileset can have an effect on whether the slick will ignite. It shouldn't, but somehow it does.|
Originally Posted by TheXor
Can it be done? When teaming with a Fire/Kin, it ignites pretty easily. However, my blazing arrow and taser (tech origin) will not do it, although I've read that both attacks should ignite the slick. I've been teaming with a Fire/SD/Blaze tonight and he couldn't ignite the thing either after multiple attempts.
Anyone else had the same problems? |
It's a buggy, buggy thing. Oil slick is unique in that it's a pseudo pet that players can target, and damage with Fire or Energy. Then, it's replced by another pseudo pet of flames. I suppose it's possible that The first pet just gets replaced with the same first pet sometimes.
The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
I too like the idea that TA is a pure debuff set. It is the polar opposite of Empathy and then all the other sets fall in between with a mix of buff/debuff powers.
I just wish that TA was better at it. Empathy is a very strong pure buff set. Cold, Rad, Kin, Therm and Traps are very strong mixed buff/debuff sets (some more focused on buff, while others more debuff) TA should outshine the hybrids at debuffing because it offers no buffing. That just seems logical to me. |
Pretty much this.
TA isn't unplayable but compared to the other Defender sets is a bit lackluster. Some -Regen, -Healing, or -Mezz duration would go a long way toward making it better. Plus I'd love to see some unique, interesting debuffs in a set that should specialize in them. -Range in Flash Arrow for example would be completely different and not violate the cottage rule (no changes to slotting). How about a short Placate in Entangling Arrow to make it not totally suck? And so on and so on.
TA has a good burst of -regen in EM Pulse arrow.
I agree some -range with -perception in flash arrow would be cool.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
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It can be both weak and under-rated.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
I want to know why some people still think TA is weak. It sooo is not. If anything it is under-rated.
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I've gone over, in great detail, why I think Trick Arrow is underbalanced on defenders. This was long ago, predating even the initial efforts on the OSA non-ignition bug (in other words, years ago). Many of my main points have been echoed in this thread.
So, rather than "*zips lips*" as a response to those answering your question, let me ask you why you think it's so strong?
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I think at this point Castle should just throw in the towel and just make OSA automatically light (i.e. rather than summoning the oil slick pseudopet and the targetable pseudopet it should summon the oil slick pseudo pet and the flames pseudopet). it's a neat mechanic but it's so buggy I'm not sure it's worth the development effort to try and fix it.
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Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
Apparently the tileset can have an effect on whether the slick will ignite. It shouldn't, but somehow it does.
It's a buggy, buggy thing. Oil slick is unique in that it's a pseudo pet that players can target, and damage with Fire or Energy. Then, it's replced by another pseudo pet of flames. I suppose it's possible that The first pet just gets replaced with the same first pet sometimes. |
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Those two suggestions if implemented would make TA a GOD for anyone with half a brain so I think it's unlikely you will see that. TA is under rated as is because it's so under utilised.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
-Range in Flash Arrow for example would be completely different and not violate the cottage rule (no changes to slotting). How about a short Placate in Entangling Arrow to make it not totally suck? And so on and so on.
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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you're still naughty
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Originally Posted by JayboH
*zips lips*
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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What I suggested to him was to do away with the targetable Oil Slick pet, and introduce a slash command that would check to see if the character had an active oil slick, and if so, light it. That way you could choose when (or if) you wanted to light it, with the side benefit that any TA user who doesn't have fire/energy attacks* could still get full use of the power.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I think at this point Castle should just throw in the towel and just make OSA automatically light (i.e. rather than summoning the oil slick pseudopet and the targetable pseudopet it should summon the oil slick pseudo pet and the flames pseudopet). it's a neat mechanic but it's so buggy I'm not sure it's worth the development effort to try and fix it.
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Whatever the direction, it's years past time to ditch the current mechanic of lighting the thing. It was a neat experiment, but ultimately it failed and needs to be replaced.
* I realize that some origin powers will light it, but some people may choose other origins for concept/roleplay reasons.
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An interesting idea, but I suspect in practice that would prove to be as buggy (if not more so) than the current oil slick.
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Originally Posted by Happy_Thoughts
What I suggested to him was to do away with the targetable Oil Slick pet, and introduce a slash command that would check to see if the character had an active oil slick, and if so, light it. That way you could choose when (or if) you wanted to light it, with the side benefit that any TA user who doesn't have fire/energy attacks* could still get full use of the power.
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Originally Posted by New Dawn
Those two suggestions if implemented would make TA a GOD for anyone with half a brain so I think it's unlikely you will see that. TA is under rated as is because it's so under utilised.
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No, to both. Unless you are suggesting -Range or Placate makes either Taunt or Stalkers godlike.
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More or less why it's never been fixed.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I think at this point Castle should just throw in the towel and just make OSA automatically light (i.e. rather than summoning the oil slick pseudopet and the targetable pseudopet it should summon the oil slick pseudo pet and the flames pseudopet). it's a neat mechanic but it's so buggy I'm not sure it's worth the development effort to try and fix it.
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The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
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You're only thinking of defenders here. -Range in Flash arrow would make a /TA controller pretty much invincible, since almost all of them have access to an AoE immobilize. Immobilize the mob, then Flash Arrow and pick off the enemies that can't shoot back at your leisure. |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
No, to both. Unless you are suggesting -Range or Placate makes either Taunt or Stalkers godlike.
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That kind of thing is exactly why all melee sets were given a ranged attack in AE missions, because of exploiting hoverblasting against mobs that had no ability to even attack you, much less damage you. Flash Arrow's recharge is low enough that you could permanently nullify an entire mob's ability to attack at all.
So, since they aren't going to add something to the defender version without porting the same change over to the other 3 ATs that have the set, its not going to happen.
Placate in Entangling Arrow probably isn't going to happen either.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
You have a point, but to be fair, a well played defender of most powersets is a god as it is.
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You can already do this to some extent by firing the AoE immob and walking backwards. Controllers have pets that can be supported while you sit out of range. Since I also didn't say how much or how long the debuff should last, any conclusions about it being "god like" are pulled out of the air. I don't think a 3 second -30% -Range debuff is that big a deal. Helpful? Maybe. Certainly better than the power is right now. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
You're only thinking of defenders here. -Range in Flash arrow would make a /TA controller pretty much invincible, since almost all of them have access to an AoE immobilize. Immobilize the mob, then Flash Arrow and pick off the enemies that can't shoot back at your leisure.
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In any case the larger point is less about the specific buffs to the set and more about the fact that it is an underperformer. Any change to Trick Arrow to make it's numbers stack up better would be an improvement. And since TA is supposedly the signature all-debuff set, it really ought to get some unique abilities in there. Flash Arrow and Entangingly Arrow are terrible powers. Every time someone says Flash Arrow is good against AVs I just look at Radiation and Cold Domination and the word, indeed, that comes to mind is "godlike."
[Editted after the fact after acccidentally hitting Post early.]
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I am zipping my lips due to upcoming changes I cannot discuss.
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Originally Posted by Happy_Thoughts
So, rather than "*zips lips*" as a response to those answering your question, let me ask you why you think it's so strong?
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My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
Quote:
Very naughty..
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Originally Posted by JayboH
I am zipping my lips due to upcoming changes I cannot discuss.
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Can it be done? When teaming with a Fire/Kin, it ignites pretty easily. However, my blazing arrow and taser (tech origin) will not do it, although I've read that both attacks should ignite the slick. I've been teaming with a Fire/SD/Blaze tonight and he couldn't ignite the thing either after multiple attempts.
Anyone else had the same problems?