How much inf. to make Fire/SD playable 1-50?
By
Athanatosis,
Posted on: 2010-05-11 07:33 in Scrappers
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Ironically, I recently made a post about scrapper playability in three tiers of leveling.|
Originally Posted by Dafear
So can someone explain how to build a shield/ super reflex/ninja reflex/or any other defense based power on it's own merit? Or is it as I long suspected a lot of God Mode utilities?
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If you are interested.
As people here have mentioned, once you can slot better enhancements, defense sets get better than they are at level 9.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
You HAVE to take 6 power picks that are not from your prim/sec on the way to 50.
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Way a minute logic and facts are not allowed in this argument
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
You HAVE to take 6 power picks that are not from your prim/sec on the way to 50.
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Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
CMA sounds angry...
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Originally Posted by Hejtmane
I thought it came of more irritated
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Well, "angry" is putting it too strongly, it's more complete disbelief than anything else at dismissing something as worthless after only playing to level 9. This apparently is someone who's either deliberately trolling or unbelievably ignorant based on his 2004 forum reg date. I would hope it's a case of trolling as anyone who's been here that long should at least know that nothing is super-effective in the low levels.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Sorry, that was tongue in cheek. I was just refering to the larger-than-usual fontsize your whole reply had.
I honestly don't see why people think it's so poor performing at low levels, i'm playing elec/sd at the moment as my first main toon after having not played since about 2 years after the game came out (apart from 2 very short spells), i rolled an fm/sd to 31 just before i rolled this one but find elec more fun. I've have been having a blast on it since level 1 up to it's current level of 40. The only IO's it has are 2 x LotG recharge, a steadfast +3% def and a few basic lvl 35 IO's, the rest are SO's, i haven't felt particularly squishy compared to my old scrappers that made it fine to 50 before IO's were in the game.
All in all, so far i'd say i've been even more impressed with this one than i ever was with any of them, although my favourite one previously was kat/sr, and since around 32 i've found myself having to tank quite often for teams and being able to do it effectively. I doubt very much i'd have been able to solo +1 & 2/x8 as easily has this toon has allowed me to.
Perhaps it's just the power set combo i settled on but the amount of fun that is to be had from elec/sd and to a lesser extent (for me) fm/sd more than makes up for any feeling of squishiness people may have in lower levels.
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Ah, that was actually more accidental than anything else. I'd changed the size of one part then decided it didn't serve any purpose and thought I'd changed it back... I picked the wrong choice though|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
Sorry, that was tongue in cheek. I was just refering to the larger-than-usual fontsize your whole reply had.
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COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Frankenslotting is the way to go. You can get cheap enh in sets that no-one loves easy. Though in the middle ranges they might be rare, but still cheap. Supply and Demand do not appear to effect these dead babies.
I use acc TOs until DOs. DOs until SOs. SOs to 33, then start doing sets and keeping them in.
Rough extimate, you could do under level 33 for under 100m. Doing normal sets, maybe 200m to 50. Frankenslotting, lower, who knows how low. If there are items for sale but no bidding, always bid just 1 first. You'll be really surprise at the people who don't understand how the market works.
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A combination of doubles and cheap triples is fine for leveling and often cheaper and more effective than straight IO builds if you are patient. You don't need triples and quads; if you are using those to min/max then you are no longer bargain shopping and are usually better off with sets at that point.
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Originally Posted by Wondering_Fury
There's a common misconception amongst players that frankenslotting is cheap, if you want a basic, just above par-SO build then sure the IO's you will need for frankenslotting is cheap. However, good frankenslotted builds use the Tri/Quad enhancements out of each individual set which coincides with being the dearest IO of the set - excluding any good "Chance...". Then again, that's assuming Level 50: IO set frankenslots, I'd say Fire/SD is a bit too intricate to be frankenslotted efficiently. Either go with SO's or look to invest up to 200-300m for a good build, or quite literally break the bank to make an extreme Fire/SD - which personally are like gods.
Fury |
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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I have my 66 month veteran award. I know about pool powers. I generally end up with 7 or 8 pool powers already. 3 or 4 fitness, 2 travel (although these days I can skip the first in those and go directly to the travel power itself. And 2 from leadership because I can't get tactics without maneuvers or assault. I usually end up with assault unless I already have some defense in another power because maneuvers by itself is a waste of endurance. My present reliance on pool powers means I have to skip some good epic powers as well as 2 or mre useful primary/secondary powers. Even so I still have to skip powers in the secondary and primary sets. I am also aware that no character really hits it's power until mid 30's. It takes that long to get enough enhancement slots to make most powers effective. My main complaint is that defensive powers at their base level are useless. Resistance powers at their base do mitigate. Defense does not. And enhancements are not an option, they are requirement for defense. Since I have never min/max my abilities I do not have tough or weave on any character. I only have combat jumping when I'm taking super jump. I can see how stacking more defensive powers can help. But then what additional powers do you drop to make room for those extra endurance draining powers. My EM brute runs 6 toggles already and now I'm expected to add 2 more because the base level of defense is useless? And no, I'm not trolling. I'm just frustrated and, yet, I keep playing. I guess I'm more of a masochist than I ever wanted to believe I was.
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Originally Posted by Werner
On the other hand, if you want to play to 50, and are willing to take pool powers (I didn't realize that was a line in the sand that some people didn't want to cross), and particularly if you're willing to spend even half of the influence you're earning on making your character better, Shield Defense offers plenty of survivability plus greatly enhances your damage output.
So no, I'm not going to explain how to build a Shield Defense or Super Reflexes "on it's own merit". How you build it is you take pool powers and you spend some of that hard earned influence on occasion, like on the Steadfast Protection unique. That's also how you build ANY character. I can't even imagine that there are people playing this game without taking pool powers. But I suppose they must be out there, struggling, dying, burning out of endurance constantly, and wondering why their primary and secondary suck. |
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Sounds like a slotting issue with me I have soloed an AV with no temps and no insp on my fire/sd and never even came close to touching my Conserve power each AV is different but I have soloed a couple where that was the case.|
Originally Posted by Dafear
I have my 66 month veteran award. I know about pool powers. I generally end up with 7 or 8 pool powers already. 3 or 4 fitness, 2 travel (although these days I can skip the first in those and go directly to the travel power itself. And 2 from leadership because I can't get tactics without maneuvers or assault. I usually end up with assault unless I already have some defense in another power because maneuvers by itself is a waste of endurance. My present reliance on pool powers means I have to skip some good epic powers as well as 2 or mre useful primary/secondary powers. Even so I still have to skip powers in the secondary and primary sets. I am also aware that no character really hits it's power until mid 30's. It takes that long to get enough enhancement slots to make most powers effective. My main complaint is that defensive powers at their base level are useless. Resistance powers at their base do mitigate. Defense does not. And enhancements are not an option, they are requirement for defense. Since I have never min/max my abilities I do not have tough or weave on any character. I only have combat jumping when I'm taking super jump. I can see how stacking more defensive powers can help. But then what additional powers do you drop to make room for those extra endurance draining powers. My EM brute runs 6 toggles already and now I'm expected to add 2 more because the base level of defense is useless? And no, I'm not trolling. I'm just frustrated and, yet, I keep playing. I guess I'm more of a masochist than I ever wanted to believe I was.
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The main thing is do you have enough +end and end reduction in your build I mean I ran 8 toggles on a spines/da when there where ony SO's and HO's and I managed just fine because I slotted enough endurance reduction in my attacks.
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
OK, I feel like I'm straying even further from topic, but here's an example of how to build a Super Reflexes "not on it's own merit". Soft cap by level 36 with a single IO, mostly done with power pools. Should you level up this way? Eh, probably not, but you CAN because I DID. But you're putting off a lot of fun powers, and there's really no reason to, because purple inspirations are great on a defense-based character. And there's no reason not to at least frankenslot your attacks by this level. But the point here is that even with SOs, you have a workable attack chain, passable endurance consumption, and all the survivability you need, and then you still have a ton of power picks and slots to go, so you can still pick some fun attacks, a travel power, maybe some epic powers if you want, whatever.
Yes, it has Tough and Weave. Those contribute a HUGE amount to survivability in this build. If you're coasting along on this build, and then turn Tough and Weave off, you're going to die. By the same logic, those things that keep killing a build without Tough and Weave? This build coasts through them. I don't think of that as "min/max". I think of that as "it's not much fun dying, so why should I?"
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Now, this isn't the build you should do it with due to the whole "lack of fun attacks" thing. But maybe you should follow a leveling build made by a min/maxer, and just COMPARE the experience to your normal leveling experience. If you hate it, fine, stick with your current approach. But I think you'll find that it's more fun playing a build that was carefully designed for maximum performance at all levels. (Note: You'll still be squishy at a low level.)
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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