best MM secondary for PvP

Im working on a demon summoning build (me and the whole known universe). Im currently working on a /pain build, but a friend today made a great case for thermal (mmm... heat exhaustion... yummy)!

This makes me rethink the matter, and I'm led to... well... to my title question, I guess. What IS, all things being equal, the best MM secondary for PvP (both solo, and group)?

Thanks, as always, for the help.

In my experience. Poison Hands Down is best for duels. For general zone pvp you cant go wrong with dark/pain/therm

Dark? Seriously? Wow! I remember, vaguely, the ol daysw hen dark was just unambiguously useless everywhere. But then, so were masterminds, at the time. *le shrug*

Between therm and pain, what do you think wins out?

It depends on what you want to do as a MM.

Psn is the go to set for duels.

Pain is very survivable and makes for a great mobile base in zones.

Therm is a bit less survivable than Pain, but the debuffs can really help against single targets.

Traps is again a mini mobile base done differently.

Storm and TA are a good bit of disruption but it helps to have another MM with a heal around to keep your HP up.

FF I don't think is all that useful in zones atm.

In the arena, FF owns the lab map with the repel bubble, each secondary can bring something but due to lack of mobility its nice to have either a smaller map or a team that focuses around playing to the MM's strength on a larger map.

Wow. The idea of a /dark pvp build blows my mind, LOL! Out of curiosity, why pain before therm? I know, I know, the anoying questions. I'm just trying to get a feel for how this build will play out. Out of curiosity, which of the THREE of them, would you say is best for zone PvP? The idea of a dark Miasma charater cleaning house in PvP just tickles me waaaaay too pink.

I don't have any experience playing any of them....but I can tell you which ones I hate to fight.

Thermal and Dark are the most annoying to me. Thermal is one of only 2 sets that can drain my regen scrapper enough to hurt me (the other is Cold, which isn't available to MMs). Kin can do it too, but they're usually dead before they can sap my end enough to stop me from killing them.

Dark can be a major pain if you are the only target for Fluffy to latch onto, if he's worried about someone else it's not so bad. Sucks for the person Fluffy is looking at though.

I don't have experience with /Pain, but I do have a Thug/Therm MM. I don't really duel with it, but I have fought some people before. The few duels I have had was versus a thug/poison, a few regen scrappers, a brute or a tank, and a plant/rad controller. I'm pretty sure I won all of them. Heat Exhaustion seals the deal when fighting melee toons that aren't elec armor.

In a zone environment, I can hold my own pretty well. It sucks having to buff each pet individually, but being able to buff others not on your team with forge and thaw AND give all my thugs slow protection is great. Once Scrappers and tanks know I'm a therm, they usually steer clear of me until they can spike me together.

So to sum it up, if you want great a great regen aura and the ability to easily buff your team/pets without being too annoyed, go /pain. If you want better buffs and Heat Exhaustion for the added annoyance of individual buffing, go therm.

Thermal makes me gnash my teeth and cry tears of blood.

Is the regen aura from pain really terribly good? It doesn't seemt o do much for me at ~23rd level. Even taking the sum of its effects on all my pets isn't that impressive. Is it higher in PvP perhaps, and Mi'd sjust doesn't show it?

Yes it's very good. A pain MM in PvP is basically unkillable, if built and played well.

Hmm. I suppose my real choice, then, is between more raw survivability with /pain, or... heat exhaustion. Tough choice, LOL!

i'd say therm with flurry tough and kick.

If i get fighting, I can'tg et teleportation for TP foe. Im not sure if thats a trade worht making. THough, Is uppsoe villains don't get Wedding Bands to top up their resistances (mmm... broken temp powers...!). Ill have to give that some thought.

For the record, other powersets would be speed, fitness, and leadership. I might not even take take TP for the sake fo taking jumping, though I suppose its not as critical to resist KB as a mastermind, as it is with other characters.

P.S. I have decided t go with Therm. Pain seems like better in huge battles and team settings, and I just don' have a crew to run with. Ill build a bit more for dues, and let it carry over into support when in zones where possible.

Thanks,all of you, for hte advice.

Hmm! I will say I wish I'd read the fine print on Forge. 60 seconds seems like too long a recharge time, if you ask me!

Its not so bad. 60 sec rech, cut to something like 33sec with enhancers and no set bonuses or hasten, it sticks around for 120sec, you can keep several people buffed without too much trouble.