AA creating new jaggies instead of removing them...
By
Bill Z Bubba,
Posted on: 2010-05-02 09:47 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
Patience 
I know, it is annoying, but until ATI solves it in their drivers, AA and AO can't work together in the 5-series cards.
So till then you must choose if you prefer AA or AO.
It is and has been a known issue for a while no. The options are FSAA or AO but not both
I will note that the Jaggies should only appear with FSAA and AO on but not with just FSAA...
So first what card do you have?
What driver are you running?
and what are your settings in the CCC and in Game
Quote:
As I said, it happens with just AA on alone, AO just makes it WORSE.|
Originally Posted by panthera
Patience
I know, it is annoying, but until ATI solves it in their drivers, AA and AO can't work together in the 5-series cards. So till then you must choose if you prefer AA or AO. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ravenous33
It is and has been a known issue for a while no. The options are FSAA or AO but not both
I will note that the Jaggies should only appear with FSAA and AO on but not with just FSAA... So first what card do you have? What driver are you running? and what are your settings in the CCC and in Game |
Drivers are the Catalyst 10.4 drivers, as of right now, they're the ones you get if you go to ATI's site to download the newest, the date they list there for them is 4/28 iirc.
My settings in CC are set to 'application controlled' for everything where that is an option. I've tried it with catalyst AI off, on low, and on high, with no change. In game, I had everything turned up near the max except AA/AO... I just turned off advanced settings and tried every one of the preset quality levels... from lowest to highest... found out it appeared when I went up from 'performance' to recommended. after a bit more playing around, it seems to be a combination of having field of depth effects and AA turned on at the same time. Turning Field of Depth off fixes the blockiness between edges and the sky, I'm gonna try to find some windows someplace since I'm not at wentworth's anymore and see if it fixes it there, I'll update this post when I've figured that out.
edit:
Yep! AA and Depth of Field together, even with AO turned off fully, cause the blockiness
Please download and run CoH Helper and post the output into a reply here. It will give us the relevant hardware and driver information as well as showing the in game graphics settings. No need to host it elsewhere, just paste it here. It's a lot cleaner in looks than the Game Advisor and DXDIAG reports and easier to find what we need.
Zloth now has it updated to be compliant with I17 and show the UM stuffz.
You may also want to boot into the games Safe Mode and then readjust the settings. Sometimes things seem to get stuck showing one thing when they are actually doing something else.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Quote:
---System information gathered by CoH Helper version 0.2.0.2---|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Please download and run CoH Helper and post the output into a reply here. It will give us the relevant hardware and driver information as well as showing the in game graphics settings. No need to host it elsewhere, just paste it here. It's a lot cleaner in looks than the Game Advisor and DXDIAG reports and easier to find what we need.
Zloth now has it updated to be compliant with I17 and show the UM stuffz. You may also want to boot into the games Safe Mode and then readjust the settings. Sometimes things seem to get stuck showing one thing when they are actually doing something else. |
DxDiag gathered at May 2, 2010 18:12 (-05:00)
Operating System: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit (6.1, Build 7600) (7600.win7_gdr.100226-1909)
System Manufacturer: System manufacturer
System Model: System Product Name
BIOS: BIOS Date: 07/28/09 13:58:50 Ver: 08.00.15
Central Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 860 @ 2.80GHz (8 CPUs), ~2.8GHz
Memory: 4096MB
.Net Memory Report: 1166MB out of 4086MB available
Page File: 2278MB (5891MB currently in use)
Windows directory location: C:\Windows
DirectX: DirectX 11
DirectX Diag version: 6.01.7600.16385 (64-bit version)
Display Notes: No problems found.
Sound Notes: No problems found.
No problems found.
No problems found.
Input Notes: No problems found.
Monitor:
Monitor's Max Resolution: (blank)
Video Device Name: ATI Radeon HD 5900 Series
Manufacturer / Chip: ATI Technologies Inc. / ATI display adapter (0x689C)
Video Memory: 2789 MB
Driver Version: 8.723.0.0
Driver Date: 4/6/2010 8:22:38 PM
Driver Language: English
Sound Device Description: Speakers (VIA High Definition Audio)
Driver File: viahduaa.sys
Driver Version: 6.00.0001.7500
Driver Date: 9/17/2009 8:04:18 PM
Sound Device Description: SPDIF Interface (TX1) (VIA High Definition Audio)
Driver File: viahduaa.sys
Driver Version: 6.00.0001.7500
Driver Date: 9/17/2009 8:04:18 PM
Sound Device Description: Digital Output Device (HDMI TX0) (VIA High Definition Audio)
Driver File: viahduaa.sys
Driver Version: 6.00.0001.7500
Driver Date: 9/17/2009 8:04:18 PM
WMI Information
Motherboard Manufacturer: ASUSTeK Computer INC.
Motherboard Model: (empty)
Motherboard Product: P7P55D DELUXE
Motherboard Version: Rev 1.xx
BIOS Manufacturer: American Megatrends Inc.
BIOS Name: BIOS Date: 07/28/09 13:58:50 Ver: 08.00.15
BIOS Version: ACRSYS - 20090728
BIOS Release: 20090728000000.000000+000
Registry Information for Current User
Resolution: 1661x1024
3D Resolution: 1661x1024 (Not using renderscale)
Full Screen: No
Maximized: No
Screen Position: 1683, 0
Refresh Rate: 60Hz
Vertical Sync Enabled: Yes
Physics Quality: High
Maximum Particles: 50000
Max Particle Fill? 10.000
Physics Card Enabled: No
Anti-aliasing: 8x
Anisotropic Filtering: 16x
Texture LOD Bias: Smooth
Water Effects: Ultra quality
Bloom: 1.000 (turned on)
Depth of Field Enabled: No
Desaturation Effects (Sepia) Enabled: Yes
Shader Detail: Medium?
World Texture Level: Very High
Character Texture Level: Very High
World Detail Level (Vis_Scale): 2.000
Entity Detail Level: 2.000
Shadows Enabled: Yes
Shadow Mode: Shadow maps
Shadow Map Shader: High quality
Environmental Reflections: Ultra quality
Advanced Occlusion Settings: Yes
Ambient Occlusion: High quality
Occlusion Strength: Off
Blur: Trilateral
Ambient Resolution: Quality
Gamma Correction: 0.595
Geometry Buffers (VBOs) Enabled: Yes
Suppression of FX When Camera Close Enabled: No
Close Suppression Range: 3.000
Show Advertisements: Yes
Audio Mode: Performance
3D Audio: No
FX Sound Volume: 0.331
Music Sound Volume: 0.198
Show Advanced Graphics Options: Yes
Overall Graphics Quality: 1.000
Reverse Mouse Buttons: No
Save Login Username: Yes
Transfer Rate: 285288 bytes/second
Current Game Version: 1800.201003300904.10T4r
Installation Directory: C:\Program Files (x86)\City of Heroes
Mod files in the Data directory
No modifications found
Quote:
That's a freaky resolution. What monitor are you running on?| 1661x1024 |
Does FSAA look better if you drop it down to 4X?
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
I'm running it windowed, resized enough to let me see the bottom of my IM windows behind it, hence the odd resolution :P|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
That's a freaky resolution. What monitor are you running on?
Does FSAA look better if you drop it down to 4X? |
And nah, it looks bad at any level of FSAA, turning either it off or Depth of Field off is the only way to make it look good. I'm currently running it with FSAA maxed out and DoF and AO off just because I value a lack of jaggies more then I value blurryness in the distance, but it would be nice to be able to have both.
Do you have the same issue in full screen? Oh... hmm, I already run with DoF and AO off. I don't recall any FSAA issues with I-17 and FSAA when coupled with DoF. If I manage to get back on tonight, I'll turn on DoF and see if it breaks FSAA at all for me. However, I only run full screen.
Be well, people of CoH.
Could you post some screenshots what you are seeing?
Quote:
Set to windowed mode, I can NOT recreate FSAA breaking with DoF turned on, HOWEVER, DoF is causing a halo around edges. First screenshot is DoF Off. Second is with DoF On. This is with 4X game managed FSAA.|
Originally Posted by Tex
Could you post some screenshots what you are seeing?
|
EDIT: WRONG. That was with CCC managed FSAA. Forgot to turn it off. One minute. <growl> Have to wait for daylight to return. Depth of Field makes the stars disappear. That's reason enough right there to never enable it.
Ok, here's screenshots, Dof Off and then DoF On.
Be well, people of CoH.
Ugh... I hate full screen, but just to be sure for you, I tried, same issue :P
And I posted a link to a screenshot in my first post, didn't know if the forums here allowed BBcode or not, I'll edit it to embed the pic now, but what Bill is seeing is the exact same thing, though it's a bit less obvious in his screenshots. Heres a blowup of the problem to clarify a bit.
Ok... so we are seeing the same halo issue.
Meaning DoF is still a no go with FSAA. At least Ultra Water and Desaturation FX (sepia mode during flashback) is no longer breaking FSAA.
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
This is true... I just wish it could get resolved the rest of the way... I saved up a long time for this card, it's a pain having the game I use if for the most not work right with it :/
|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Ok... so we are seeing the same halo issue.
Meaning DoF is still a no go with FSAA. At least Ultra Water and Desaturation FX (sepia mode during flashback) is no longer breaking FSAA. |
Quote:
Preachin to the choir. Since I began playing this game I've spent over $1800 on video cards alone.| I saved up a long time for this card, it's a pain having the game I use if for the most not work right with it :/ |
/yes, I know I have a sickness. But at least my kid's system rocks anything he can throw at it and my workstation can still be used for testing.
Be well, people of CoH.
I have a hunch that this is the same issue with ATI drivers as AA + AO, just without AO enabled and with DoF instead, if that makes sense to you.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tex
I have a hunch that this is the same issue with ATI drivers as AA + AO, just without AO enabled and with DoF instead, if that makes sense to you.
|
Aye, in much the way that FSAA being broken pre-I17 by DoF, High Water, Desaturation FX and Bloom made sense to me.
Which, to be honest, I never really understood.
But I thought you stated in another thread that the AO/FSAA issue was occurring with both ATI and Nvidia cards. Wouldn't that imply that it's an engine problem and not a driver issue?
Be well, people of CoH.
There are some FSAA+AO artifacts which happen regardless video card/drivers. These are due to limitations of the Cg shader programming language regarding multisampled (a.k.a. anti-aliased) buffers.
But, there are a lot more FSAA+AO artifacts which happen specifically with ATI drivers.
This appears to be another artifact with FSAA, specifically with DoF enabled. I don't know if this one is due to the first limitation mentioned above or due to the problem in the ATI drivers.
Understood and thanks for that explanation.
Be well, people of CoH.
I have an older Nvidia card (GeForce 7300 GT) and have set my game options to FSAA = 4, no bloom, no DoF. These have been my settings for... forever... and the jaggy lines are definitely worse with this latest issue. Drivers are up to date and I'm not running any UM settings (occlusions).
You can see the "warp" at the top edge of the tram...
And it's especially noticeable on the streets...
It might not seem so bad in the still pics, but when moving... it's like watching a news anchor with a reeeeeeally baaaaad herringbone suit on. 
Quote:
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
Been having this issue since the new patch (Didn't have it previously due to AA just plain not working on ATI cards...)
Turning on AA creates absolutely horrible blockiness around any sort of translucent surface (The windows at wentworths, the... well, walls/floor/ceiling at the D, etc...) turning AO on just makes it much worse.
Heres a quick screenshot to show what I mean:
And the game advisor output:
http://pastebay.com/96634
As for my computer... I'm running windows 7 64bit, an intel i5 CPU, and a ATI Radeon 5970 GPU
Any ideas?
Edit: It seems to be Depth of Field that causes the problem, turning it off fixes it