I did Traps/AR and it is awesome. AR is the King of AoE damage for both Blasters and Defenders. Traps gives me the survivability I need to go to town (not to mention that Ignite does Blaster level damage since they didn't make a new psedo pet).
Also, given the title of your post you make an Emo-themed Traps/Dark defender 
Dual Pistols pairs quite nicely with Traps on defender. I have one myself.
Set up a few mines, with a acid mortar near it, pull a mob into it then spam hail of bullets, bullet rain and empty clips and you can usually destroy the mob.
Its one of the few defenders I could actually solo with before i17 changes.
AR isnt too bad either, but you have to think about Ignite being your main damage power, which means you need to keep one target locked down with it on, and AR has pretty suckish damage too.
Dual Pistols on paper isnt a lot better, but in reality it performs much better plus it looks cooler, with i17 changes to hail of bullets, your dancing also increases defence for a bit which would stack nicely with force field generator
I have to admit Traps/DP does interest me, but I haven't stepped up and bought Going Rogue yet.
Thank you for the information on Ignite, I wasn't aware of that at all. I should have mentioned that I am also a big fan of the nukes that don't wipe out your end. That being said I guess I need to focus on AR, Archery, or DP.
Has anyone done a guide on Defender Traps yet? Something that points out what powers are awesome because you are a Defender, and what powers (like trip mine from what I read) were scaled back because you are a Defender?
Protector: Tulare 50 Inv/SS/EM-ph1x3r 47 Bots/Traps
VIP: VIC-29(Traps/AR) - Corinth(Grav/FF) -Wrecka(Claws/SR)
I have a Traps/dark defender called 'Mole Trap' for concept reasons, he is a mole with a pink tail and has dark blasts from the underworld. It's not too bad, I like to team and took team friendly cone/AoE powers.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
You do realise you can stack trip mines right? Thats the main reason anyone plays traps/devices usually
Regardless of the damage scaleback you can still stack a few mines for a lot of damage, you just might need a few more if you want to take a full mob 
Going on the basis you are going to go AR though, and take ignite, make sure to slot web grenade and caltrops, since a normal tactic for boss involves pulling him/her over trip mines, and acid mortar, dropping caltrops, using web grenade then ignite so he/she cant run out of it, then using flamethrower, slug and finally full auto then rinse/repeat.
With a mob situation, the tactics usually involve: trip mine, caltrop, buckshot, m30 grenade, flamethrower and full auto.
All in all the powers usually take in traps are: Web Grenade, Caltrops, Acid Mortar, Force Field Generator, Seeker Drones (read below), Trip mine, Time Bomb (Read Below)
The ones people avoid and why are:
Triage beacon - Regen boost in a short area with a long recharge... a defender with limited mobility sucks, end of. Unless you stack a buttload of other regen through sets, it isnt really worth getting and even if you did stack with sets, defence would still be better with FFG.
Poison Trap - Waste of time, its much better to just stack another trip mine than waste time planting another of these especially considering the recharge time.
Seeker Drones - Suffers from dumb AI, like many pets, unless you summon them from the middle of a mob they will go for the thing in front and explode, meaning you miss 95% of the mob usually. Although I have seen them used very well by some people, it goes down to your preference.
Time Bomb - Again another personal choice, the timer make time bomb a massive pain in the butt to use, although the damage is nice. If you can time it right with TP Foe you can use this to devastating effect but its a real pain to learn the timing.
Either way with Traps or Devices I strongly recommend getting TP Foe, it makes your mines a lot easier to manage.
With my devices/DP defender I can solo mobs fairly easily without a team, but on a team you will usually find yourself a bit more frustrated because people wont wait for mines unless they die a lot on the mob which usually means your better sticking with your ranged powers from your other set and caltrops. Even Acid mortar isnt really worth placing unless its a boss mob because 9 times out of 10 the mob will die before you place it. Web Grenade and Ignite with caltrops is very nice on tougher opponents though.
If you go Archery, I can tell you whats good in that set in a team as well with devices but its more or less the same as AR with no real need for web grenade.
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It seems you and I have a completely different play style with Traps. I would never, ever, ever skip Poison Trap, it is essential to playing on fast teams using the tactic known as toe-bombing and is fantastic when you wish to Debuff an AV (500% autohit -regen). My normal technique is: Seeker Drones to the center of the pack to take the alpha, run in, Poison Trap, Acid Mortar, Trip Mine, Clean Up.|
Originally Posted by Predatoric
You do realise you can stack trip mines right? Thats the main reason anyone plays traps/devices usually
Regardless of the damage scaleback you can still stack a few mines for a lot of damage, you just might need a few more if you want to take a full mob Going on the basis you are going to go AR though, and take ignite, make sure to slot web grenade and caltrops, since a normal tactic for boss involves pulling him/her over trip mines, and acid mortar, dropping caltrops, using web grenade then ignite so he/she cant run out of it, then using flamethrower, slug and finally full auto then rinse/repeat. With a mob situation, the tactics usually involve: trip mine, caltrop, buckshot, m30 grenade, flamethrower and full auto. All in all the powers usually take in traps are: Web Grenade, Caltrops, Acid Mortar, Force Field Generator, Seeker Drones (read below), Trip mine, Time Bomb (Read Below) The ones people avoid and why are: Triage beacon - Regen boost in a short area with a long recharge... a defender with limited mobility sucks, end of. Unless you stack a buttload of other regen through sets, it isnt really worth getting and even if you did stack with sets, defence would still be better with FFG. Poison Trap - Waste of time, its much better to just stack another trip mine than waste time planting another of these especially considering the recharge time. Seeker Drones - Suffers from dumb AI, like many pets, unless you summon them from the middle of a mob they will go for the thing in front and explode, meaning you miss 95% of the mob usually. Although I have seen them used very well by some people, it goes down to your preference. Time Bomb - Again another personal choice, the timer make time bomb a massive pain in the butt to use, although the damage is nice. If you can time it right with TP Foe you can use this to devastating effect but its a real pain to learn the timing. Either way with Traps or Devices I strongly recommend getting TP Foe, it makes your mines a lot easier to manage. With my devices/DP defender I can solo mobs fairly easily without a team, but on a team you will usually find yourself a bit more frustrated because people wont wait for mines unless they die a lot on the mob which usually means your better sticking with your ranged powers from your other set and caltrops. Even Acid mortar isnt really worth placing unless its a boss mob because 9 times out of 10 the mob will die before you place it. Web Grenade and Ignite with caltrops is very nice on tougher opponents though.If you go Archery, I can tell you whats good in that set in a team as well with devices but its more or less the same as AR with no real need for web grenade. |
The powers I find skippable in Traps are Time bomb (far too slow for the damage), Triage Beacon, and possibly Web Grenade or Caltrops.
I disagree with two pieces of Predatoric's advice..
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I would not pass up the only regen debuff in the set and a powerful one to boot. And I've seen very few trappers who do. -1000% regen debuff will make dealing with tough opponents (bosses, AVs, EBs) a heckuva lot easier.In a set that's designed around debuffing, skipping the most powerful debuff doesn't quite make sense. |
Originally Posted by Predatoric
The ones people avoid and why are:
Poison Trap - Waste of time, its much better to just stack another trip mine than waste time planting another of these especially considering the recharge time. |
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Originally Posted by Predatoric
Seeker Drones - Suffers from dumb AI, like many pets, unless you summon them from the middle of a mob they will go for the thing in front and explode, meaning you miss 95% of the mob usually. Although I have seen them used very well by some people, it goes down to your preference.
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My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
I'm going to be a little more blunt than the two posts before me:
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This is bad advice. I don't know if this poster is thinking of Poison Trap from the Poison set, but PGT from Traps is a critical, must-have power.| Poison Trap - Waste of time, its much better to just stack another trip mine than waste time planting another of these especially considering the recharge time. |
Seekers too, crucial for me.
And Triage is well worthwhile. You'll be glad you have it for AV fights.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
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Originally Posted by Krogoth
It seems you and I have a completely different play style with Traps. I would never, ever, ever skip Poison Trap, it is essential to playing on fast teams using the tactic known as toe-bombing and is fantastic when you wish to Debuff an AV (500% autohit -regen). My normal technique is: Seeker Drones to the center of the pack to take the alpha, run in, Poison Trap, Acid Mortar, Trip Mine, Clean Up.
The powers I find skippable in Traps are Time bomb (far too slow for the damage), Triage Beacon, and possibly Web Grenade or Caltrops. |
Sorry just to clarify, you actually use seekers drones AND THEN place your poison trap and trip mines?
No offence intended but how the hell do you place in interupt power like trip mine and poison trap whilst you are getting pummelled by the ones seeker drones miss? FFG is good, but its not that good.
I agree about time bomb, its more hassle than its worth but I was just stating the fact I have seen people use it very well with TP Foe, it can be useful but 90% of time its not.
Caltrops keep your mobs grouped together with the slow effect, and stops them all bum rushing you, increasing survivability which because of defenders crappy damage is a godsend. It depends on playstyle though, your a centre of mob type player which i agree makes caltrops a bit pointless, but it really depends on secondary, if your playing centre of mob style AR isnt the best set to choose anyway since its cone based and not AoE meaning you will only hit half the mob (except m30 grenade)
Web grenade is if you use ignite since mobs run away from it, without ignite yes web grenade is pointless but why leave out your most damaging power with such a short timer?
Also I would like to point out seeker drones I put in both taken and not taken parts for a reason, some people like them, some dont and it largely depends on how you use them. The dumb AI for me makes them useless since they would much rather hit a minion than a boss if its closer plus if the OP was going to pick AR which is a cone based set except for m30 grenade, then being in the centre of the mob wouldnt be in his favour anyway.
Maybe with something a little more AoE or PBAoE heavy this would be a better strategy, but i based my post on the idea of assault rifle which he mentioned. If he played Archery like he also mentioned, it could work since Explosive arrow and Rain of Arrows are AoE's therefore centre of mob works, fistful of arrows would have to suffer though.
Poison Trap is only useful for AV's, since regular mobs dont really have enough regen to worry about a debuff. Yes its useful for AV's as a debuffer, but taking a power for a single enemy per mission that you can kill without it with any half decent team, seems a bit of a waste to me but again, thats just my personal opinion.
All in all i think the arguement for poison trap is more valid than the seeker drones but everything depends on playstyle, if it works for you, go for it but all I am offering is personal opinion after playing the set several ways. However despite the post above, I really strongly advise against triage beacon for the reasons i mentioned earlier. Its one of those powers you think is useful on paper until you actually try using it and you discover to take advantage of it your limited to about 10 feet move space, which isnt good for any squishy.
The beauty of traps and devices is you have many ways to play the set which work well, where as other sets tend to only have one way to play them. Each to there own
The way to use seekers is not to summon them near you, but rather target right into the spawn with them. I've had little issue hitting most of x8 spawns with them and absorbing the entire alpha is just swell.
Seekers imo is one of the best powers in the game, right up there with phantom army if you use them properly.
Poison trap, is roughly the same as an aoe controller hold (many of them are pbaoe, which is about the same as how PT works in use) for mezzing a spawn. Granted it only has half the duration, but it also applies -rech and is the single most powerful regen debuff in the game. It also recharges almost 3x as fast. Use seekers to absorb the alpha while you run in and drop PT and acid mortar = 100% safe alpha and entire mob mitigated for a brief while. Easily long enough for you to get a mine down, or lay waste to them with your aoes, or for your team to drop most of them.
Triage becon is decent. It is just another piece of the puzzle that makes up the vastly superior mitigation that traps can provide. It smooths out the few blows that do get through and in general just takes a bit of the pressure off during fights. If you are solo'ing x6+ it is very nice as you'll generally be in each spawn for a bit. It has less use in many teams, but is still worth throwing down when ambushes are coming, or fighting AV's and stuff like that.
The 4 absolute must have powers are FFG, Seekers, Acid, PT. If you learn to build yoru playstyle around them then "fast teams" are right up your alley. Triage, trops, webnade, and tripmine are all solid powers too and can vary from highly useful to worth taking. The only junker in traps is timebomb.
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Strongly disagree. Seekers is nowhere near an absolute must have power at all unless you stand in the middle of a mob, which most squishys do not think is a good idea and neither do I.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
The 4 absolute must have powers are FFG, Seekers, Acid, PT. If you learn to build yoru playstyle around them then "fast teams" are right up your alley. Triage, trops, webnade, and tripmine are all solid powers too and can vary from highly useful to worth taking. The only junker in traps is timebomb.
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Jumping into the middle of a mob with your only protection being FFG defence can work, but its a risky strategy, particularly on a defender which is going to be in that mob a hell of a lot longer than any other charecter would be.
Why risk your life stood getting hit relying on enemies missing when you and hitting them with cones and AoEs that miss half the mob because your stood in the middle of it. When you can be at range, using caltrops to slow the mob whilst spamming them with cones, which are also a lot more common than AoEs and you can hit all the enemies at once?
For this you dont need Seekers at all, and a free powerslot for something you dont need is a good thing :P
Poison Trap like i said is up for debate, its nice Vs AV's but thats all really, and for that reason I leave it out since 99% of the time i arent fighting an AV so I have no use for it. I dont build my charecters upon situational powers.
Time bomb is junk 99% of the time too I agree.
Triage again depends on if your stood in the middle of a mob, if your stood still then triage is a great power, but any defender who doesnt move usually ends up dead since there far from tankers :P
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Are you saying Poison GAS Trap is interruptible? I can't tell if you're saying "(an interrupt power like trip mine) and PGT" or if you're saying "an interrupt power like (trip mind and PGT)". Cause PGT ain't interruptible.| No offence intended but how the hell do you place in interupt power like trip mine and poison trap whilst you are getting pummelled by the ones seeker drones miss? FFG is good, but its not that good. |
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| Poison Trap is only useful for AV's |
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
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When they explode the debuff has a 15ft radius and there are two of them exploding. Large spawn coverage with them is not an issue.|
Originally Posted by Predatoric
Also I would like to point out seeker drones I put in both taken and not taken parts for a reason, some people like them, some dont and it largely depends on how you use them. The dumb AI for me makes them useless since they would much rather hit a minion than a boss if its closer plus if the OP was going to pick AR which is a cone based set except for m30 grenade, then being in the centre of the mob wouldnt be in his favour anyway.
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Seekers also tend to clump the spawn up pretty well, which is pretty much ideal for a cone based set. It works wonders for my firebreath (30 degree arc) and work just as well for the cones of Assault Rifle I'm sure.
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| Poison Trap is only useful for AV's, since regular mobs dont really have enough regen to worry about a debuff. Yes its useful for AV's as a debuffer, but taking a power for a single enemy per mission that you can kill without it with any half decent team, seems a bit of a waste to me but again, thats just my personal opinion. |
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| All in all i think the arguement for poison trap is more valid than the seeker drones but everything depends on playstyle, if it works for you, go for it but all I am offering is personal opinion after playing the set several ways. However despite the post above, I really strongly advise against triage beacon for the reasons i mentioned earlier. Its one of those powers you think is useful on paper until you actually try using it and you discover to take advantage of it your limited to about 10 feet move space, which isnt good for any squishy. |
If you start to subtract aspects of that mitigation your survivability will fall. I can certainly notice a difference between 9hp a sec and 27 hp a sec on my trapper. The difference is the latter is very stable feeling with all of my other layers of mitigation in effect.
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The beauty of traps and devices is you have many ways to play the set which work well, where as other sets tend to only have one way to play them. Each to there own
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You are aware you can use seekers from 60ft away yes? you target where you want them to go and they are summoned near that spot. I'm unsure of their threat modifier, but mobs will turn away from you to attack them even if you are spotted. They rarely self destruct instantly so mobs tend to gather around them and clump up a bit.|
Originally Posted by Predatoric
Strongly disagree. Seekers is nowhere near an absolute must have power at all unless you stand in the middle of a mob, which most squishys do not think is a good idea and neither do I.
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| Jumping into the middle of a mob with your only protection being FFG defence can work, but its a risky strategy, particularly on a defender which is going to be in that mob a hell of a lot longer than any other charecter would be. |
But it is worth noting that togther the seekers will debuff acc by 20% and damage by 53%. FFG is 20% def so if you are facing even cons (which is a nice idea before IO for def, just crank the team size up) you are already sitting at 40% defense and they are doing half damage after they come out of your aoe hold. That is a hell of a lot of mitigation.
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| Why risk your life stood getting hit relying on enemies missing when you and hitting them with cones and AoEs that miss half the mob because your stood in the middle of it. When you can be at range, using caltrops to slow the mob whilst spamming them with cones, which are also a lot more common than AoEs and you can hit all the enemies at once? |
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| For this you dont need Seekers at all, and a free powerslot for something you dont need is a good thing :P |
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| Poison Trap like i said is up for debate, its nice Vs AV's but thats all really, and for that reason I leave it out since 99% of the time i arent fighting an AV so I have no use for it. I dont build my charecters upon situational powers. |
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| Triage again depends on if your stood in the middle of a mob, if your stood still then triage is a great power, but any defender who doesnt move usually ends up dead since there far from tankers :P |
Do I need to upload a screen shot to show you how far you can move and still be affected by it because from what you are saying I'm questioning if you've ever used traps.
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When you play at range you nearly always get one minion way ahead of the rest of the group, which attracts the seekers and makes them miss the heavier ones at the back.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
When they explode the debuff has a 15ft radius and there are two of them exploding. Large spawn coverage with them is not an issue.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
Seekers also tend to clump the spawn up pretty well, which is pretty much ideal for a cone based set. It works wonders for my firebreath (30 degree arc) and work just as well for the cones of Assault Rifle I'm sure.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
PT also comes with a mag 3 aoe hold that has a 25ft radius, with base duration of 6 seconds. It continues pulsing the hold at a 2% chance every 1 sec. And also applies 20% -rech.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
Triage Beacon has a 40ft radius for the buff, that allows pretty much full mobility during a fight. The ~290% regen it provides (and can be stacked) is part of layering mitigation. You have high def, strong -dam, distraction/avoidance/mez, and regen all layered together to create a very stable set up.
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If your standing in the middle of a mob then yes the layering goes well with FFG, but as stated earlier by standing in a mob your limiting yourself offensively anyway by cutting out the amount of targets your cones can hit.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
If you start to subtract aspects of that mitigation your survivability will fall. I can certainly notice a difference between 9hp a sec and 27 hp a sec on my trapper. The difference is the latter is very stable feeling with all of my other layers of mitigation in effect.
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On a corruptor this is different however, you kick out more damage so you DO have the damage to counter survivability under constant attacks, defender however doesnt have scrouge therefore means your going to be hit by a lot more attacks before your enemies die. For that reason relying on something with such short range is futile.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
Definitely. Traps is a strong set, very very different than devices though. It is strong enough to allow a larger margin for error than some others so it can be played more loosely.
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Quote: No offence intended but how the hell do you place in interupt power like trip mine and poison trap whilst you are getting pummelled by the ones seeker drones miss? FFG is good, but its not that good. Are you saying Poison GAS Trap is interruptible? I can't tell if you're saying "(an interrupt power like trip mine) and PGT" or if you're saying "an interrupt power like (trip mind and PGT)". Cause PGT ain't interruptible. |
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Quote: Poison Trap is only useful for AV's Between saying it's interruptible (if that's what you were saying) and the quote above, I honestly suspect you've never selected this power. Frosticus describes it nicely and its use for each and every spawn. __________________ Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof) |
Either way, Im not in the mood to argue with people who I honestly think get all there data from mids and never actually play the set.
To the OP, if you think these people are worth listening to, go for it but im telling you poison trap, seekers and triage are no way in hell anywhere near as needed as these people will have you believe.
I really suggest you people actually try playing a defender traps before commenting on something like this because 1) its not the same as corruptor or mastermind 2) actual experience is completely different from reading what you found on mids go actually play the set first and try it on a defender.
The strategies people suggest here on a defender often lead to death seen as you arent kicking out enough damage. If you want to eat gravel, be my guest but please dont convince others that bad strategies like a melee based defender is a good idea -.-
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You aren't using the power correctly then, put the recticle in the spawn, they don't fly quickly and will NEVER stray out to chase down some minion in the front. They only do that if you summon them at your feet and they will attack w/e comes at you first.|
Originally Posted by Predatoric
When you play at range you nearly always get one minion way ahead of the rest of the group, which attracts the seekers and makes them miss the heavier ones at the back.
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| I agree clumping is great for cones, but still its far from a 'nessessary' power. Ive played my traps charecters for years without ever 'needing' this power at all and played better than most who seem to think they can tank because they have FFG. The fact seekers nearly always miss at least one enemy makes them unreliable to me and I choose not to base my charecters life on luck. |
I wouldn't call darkest night a "necessary" power either, but with full slotting it does:
29% tohit debuff and -37.5% damage.
vs
20% tohit debuff, -53% dam, -180% perception, 25% chance of stun x2 and the ability to absorb an alpha with zero risk to yourself. While not "necessary" I'd say it is pretty darn useful. I mean it is one of the best powers in the game if you use it properly. Unfortunately it is bound by the 95% tohit cap...ya you're right it is definitely not very good
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| Again Poison trap isnt really a bad power, its just not needed 99% of the time. For me an unneeded power is a power you can skip, for that reason I leave it out. Just like i mentioned above, you are also nearly always going to miss some members of the mob with it and not everyone is going to stop at the same time to vomit, meaning the mob breaks up easier making your cones less effective. Caltrops however just slows the mobs all together, making them very easy to hit with cones. |
You are welcome to drop caltrops on them too, it will help prevent them trying to flee acid mortar. It's just nice if they are held for 10 seconds first.
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40ft is not a lot of mobility at all, i didnt bother to check the exact numbers before I posted but I know it through use of the power when I first started playing traps. Once I took the power out I never looked back. If your standing in the middle of a mob then yes the layering goes well with FFG, but as stated earlier by standing in a mob your limiting yourself offensively anyway by cutting out the amount of targets your cones can hit. |
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Your survivability falls much more by being stood in range to get hit in the first place, rather than moving out of the way and only getting hit by the ranged attacks which FFG should counter anyway. If 27hp per sec is accurate, then that still isnt a massive amount anyway and regen rarely saves anyones butts in PvE, regen scrappers always complain about sucking in the PvE game and they will have much more regen than that. Defenders dont have a reliable high damage mitigation with resists or defence, FFG is nice but its not high enough to let you tank with Triage down and you will still die anyway particularly on defender since your damage is lower. On a corruptor this is different however, you kick out more damage so you DO have the damage to counter survivability under constant attacks, defender however doesnt have scrouge therefore means your going to be hit by a lot more attacks before your enemies die. For that reason relying on something with such short range is futile. |
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Agree completley, which is why theres so many views here about which powers can be skipped
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| Either way, Im not in the mood to argue with people who I honestly think get all there data from mids and never actually play the set. |
Everything a corr can do with traps a defender can do better because they have much higher values on the key powers (acid, seekers, FFG) and PT is a smidge better for them too. If you are just relying on caltrops and tripmine then ya a corr is going to be much better lol.
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To the OP, if you think these people are worth listening to, go for it but im telling you poison trap, seekers and triage are no way in hell anywhere near as needed as these people will have you believe. I really suggest you people actually try playing a defender traps before commenting on something like this because 1) its not the same as corruptor or mastermind 2) actual experience is completely different from reading what you found on mids go actually play the set first and try it on a defender. The strategies people suggest here on a defender often lead to death seen as you arent kicking out enough damage. If you want to eat gravel, be my guest but please dont convince others that bad strategies like a melee based defender is a good idea -.- |
Hopefully he has a bit better reading comprehension than yourself and understands the difference between being in melee while it is completely safe and then moving out of that area to mow them down while they are still being neutralized.
Granted if you use all the mitigation available to traps you can stand in the middle of a spawn nearly indefinitely, but that is besides the point when you could just sit way back and blast away protected by caltrops.
Triage beacon. I'm at the edge of the regen debuff in each pic. Based on your knowledge about the rest of traps you probably thought it only went as far as the triangle graphic. It covers a space about the size of the main pool in Ourobanos. I'd hardly call that restrictive to mobility and you certainly don't need to put it down in "melee" range to be used.
LMFAO yeah because thats really a massive movement area....
The pictures alone just go to prove you have no idea what your talking about
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At least you are being adamant about leaving your brain out of the discussion. If you need more mobility than that during a fight it is probably because you are relying on caltrops to keep you alive.|
Originally Posted by Predatoric
LMFAO yeah because thats really a massive movement area....
The pictures alone just go to prove you have no idea what your talking about |
Most maps if you moved further than TB allows it would put you right into another spawn... Thankfully you have caltrops to mitigate them all.
Maybe because it was a small picture you thought that was the actual size ingame? Like 2 inches on screen?
It grants about 4x the space a x8 mob occupies. Which means you are free to kite with cj+hurdle to your hearts content as long as you kite in the general vicinity of the mob origin.
For reference, M30, explosive blast, fireball, neutron bomb, etc are about the size of the orange triangle and can generally hit an entire x8 spawn. If TB isn't providing you with a long enough leash it is because you are playing poorly, not because of TB.
Oh come on, your not seriously trying to justify the power because of that range? -.-
At least take your arguement seriously.... In that size area anything over 7 or so villains is gonna hit you in seconds... at least with caltrops you arent limited to a crappy distance seen as you can jump backward and forward over them leaving your mob to run through them each time. With this there going to be on your butt before you have time to animate full auto anyway.
Not at all, I'm sure if you used what limited reading ability you have demonstrated you would realize my position on TB
In fact the very first post I made in this thread said this:
Quote:
My discussion of the actual range of the power was because you ignorantly said it had a 10ft range and like pretty much everything you have stated about traps is has been founded on very poor knowledge of the set. The fact that it has a very usable range isn't justification for the power, but rather an understanding of how layered mitigation works that is the justification for taking the power.*| "The 4 absolute must have powers are FFG, Seekers, Acid, PT. If you learn to build yoru playstyle around them then "fast teams" are right up your alley. Triage, trops, webnade, and tripmine are all solid powers too and can vary from highly useful to worth taking. The only junker in traps is timebomb. " |
And I've said nothing to contradict that position I originally took.
That said, for me to lose the regen debuff it means I have to jump outside of blasting range based on where I personally position it. When I make the decision to flee mobs then I suppose I accept that my stationary traps will not be coming with me. I can't recall the last time I had to high-tail it away though. I currently play my corr on +2/8/AV's on, and my defender is only at +1/6/ AV on until I get a few more IO's to get my AOE def up to par.
If I encounter a tough AV I turn it down to +0. The one nice thing is my def will have softcapped psy def when the build is done, which will allow me to breeze through things my corr struggles with such as rikti mentalists that hit with mesmerize constantly.
I don't recall ever saying caltrops was mutually exclusive from any power in the traps set, so I'm not sure why you are stating it like it is a coherent point for the second time now. If you lean heavily on caltrops for mitigation that is fine, but it is worthwhile to be aware that for most people the set offers considerably stronger tools for that purpose.
*Layered mitigation:
FFG+seekers+some other def in my build puts me at softcap = 90% reduction in damage.
Seekers reducers their damage by ~50% = 95% reduction in damage
If a spawn was going to do 20k damage per minute I've reduced that down to 1000 damage. Leaving me with 17 hp. Of course you naturally regen 4.2hp/sec, so I'd actually be at 269hp, aka deep orange health.
By adding in Triage beacon my regen goes up to 16.9hp/sec. Meaning that over the course of the fight the one minute fight I walk away suffering 3 damage. 1014hp>269hp, which means I don't have to stop before the next fight while the person with no TB would.
By layering my mitigation I can effectively survive 339 minutes of incoming damage that would kill a naked defender in 3 seconds.
edit: without TB I could survive 3.78 minutes. Hopefully I don't need to point out that 339 minutes>3.8 minutes?
Traps is really interesting me to a point. I "think" that if I was to make one I would skip the last two powers though. I have a /Dev and either I set up mines, or I don't, it just isn't that important whether I use them or not.
That being said, we come to the sad. I just really don't like the Defender secondaries for the most part. I have started an Archery Blaster, so I'm not sure I want a weaker version of Archery to play with. Sonic, for me is cool the first few yells, and then not so much. AR is not going to happen. Energy is also about in the same boat as AR for me. Ice I'm not too sure about, it might be fun. Electric for me is probably a mix of Sonic and AR/EN, cool for a bit and also just not interested. Rad does interest me some, except X-ray is just such a weak animation to me, I'm not sure how long I could watch it. I am guessing that it is one of the better Rad blasts too.
So, what did everyone pair with Traps and how is it going?
Protector: Tulare 50 Inv/SS/EM-ph1x3r 47 Bots/Traps
VIP: VIC-29(Traps/AR) - Corinth(Grav/FF) -Wrecka(Claws/SR)