Either really. If he loves melee, a night widow may not be apropriate. Or bane spider. However forts or crabs can be very effective. As can a huntsman build. No matter what though, the built in leadership toggles help the whole team.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
If he's going poison, you will absolutely *destroy* any single hard targets you come across. Thus, I'd look at something to help boost the AoE carnage. And for VEATs, nothing will do that better than venom grenade. This nasty little bugger does -40% resistance to toxic, -20% to everything else in a 20 foot radius, will recharge before the -resistance expires with just 1 recharge SO + mental training, and does a goodly chunk of pure toxic damage itself (boosted by its own -res since it's a DoT). Since some of demons' damage is toxic, this should be quite nasty.
And then you've also got the leadership toggles. The ability to offer every demon +30% damage, 21% defense and 15%ish tohit with tactics, double maneuvers and double assault is very nice, especially with the large radii of the auras making it easy to keep the pets in range.
Venom grenade is only available to the 'arachnos soldier' VEAT (plus their version of maneuvers is much stronger), and I would personally go for the crab or huntsman builds. Banes can still take venom grenade from the base wolf tree, but it involves double redraw from the gun and mace and they've usually got a lot of other powers to take. Crabs have their own spider arm-thrown version of venom grenade, have plenty of AoE damage themselves, and get extra pets to add to the carnage. Huntsmen (a 'wolf spider' variant that uses mostly gun attacks, guide here) use the gun fired version of venom grenade, also have plenty of AoE and some of the same pets that crabs get, and usually have slightly more room to take extra leadership powers. Either crab or huntsman will work quite well, it just depends on whether you mind the looks of the crab arms (personally I think they look goofy).
Now, any VEAT will back up a MM well as long as you take the leadership and team buff powers, but I would personally give the nod to the crab and huntsman builds since they have good AoE and can also dish out that -res debuffing to increase killspeed even more.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
For my Huntsman build, I'm taking Fortification, Serum, Crab Spider Upgrade, and the pets. Maybe the leadership pool too for more +def granting. But then, my main build is a crab spider anyway. Already got the backpack, may as well get the resistance too.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Quote:
I'm pretty sure a "Huntsman Build" is a Bane career that uses the assault rifle instead of the mace. The build gets that name because the Huntsman NPCs use the AR and have no Crab Backpack.|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
For my Huntsman build, I'm taking Fortification, Serum, Crab Spider Upgrade, and the pets. Maybe the leadership pool too for more +def granting. But then, my main build is a crab spider anyway. Already got the backpack, may as well get the resistance too.
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http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/File:Ohanko1.jpg
Those powers you mentioned are Crab, of course.
For the OP I'd actually suggest you look at Fortunata if your partner is going /poison mastermind. You could play her stalker-ish and splash confuse, dominate, or disrupt thoughts. Or you could play her straight Mind-Dom style, just with team buffs to boot.
All the VEAT careers would work nicely with an MM though, I would imagine.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
Quote:
My 'huntsman' build is only dipping into the crab secondary tree because my primary build is Crab, thus I am forced into the pack anyway. Other then the defensive stuff and maybe pet power, everything else is pools and wolf spider. Sure, I could have gone bane/wolf for the build but I'd still have the backpack. As such, may as well get the added survivability.
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Originally Posted by Gilia
I'm pretty sure a "Huntsman Build" is a Bane career that uses the assault rifle instead of the mace. The build gets that name because the Huntsman NPCs use the AR and have no Crab Backpack.
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/File:Ohanko1.jpg Those powers you mentioned are Crab, of course. For the OP I'd actually suggest you look at Fortunata if your partner is going /poison mastermind. You could play her stalker-ish and splash confuse, dominate, or disrupt thoughts. Or you could play her straight Mind-Dom style, just with team buffs to boot. All the VEAT careers would work nicely with an MM though, I would imagine. |
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Quote:
Thanks for this guide. I spent more time reading it then I should have because now I have to hurry to get to work |
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
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I read too quickly to be 100 percent sure what I am going to start with, but on the way home tonight I will stop by the store and get a notebook so I can take notes as I learn new things.
I see lots of new villains in my future
Lisa.
So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try
***Dennis DeYoung
Quote:
Yes. On my quick read through of the guide, I can see myself dithering over which of the three to start with...I know I will eventually have all three Fort, Huntsman, and Crab, but which comes first |
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Either really. If he loves melee, a night widow may not be apropriate. Or bane spider. However forts or crabs can be very effective. As can a huntsman build. No matter what though, the built in leadership toggles help the whole team.
|
Lisa.
So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try
***Dennis DeYoung
Quote:
That's cool. I was just clarifying what a huntsman technically is because the OP sounded new to VEATS. We really should have a name for crabs who use the assault rifle anyway. I mean, you're talking about taking every single crab secondary to dip into it. Fortified Huntsman maybe? Or someone-broke-my-cloaking-device-man! Haha! I really have no good ideas for it.
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Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
My 'huntsman' build is only dipping into the crab secondary tree because my primary build is Crab, thus I am forced into the pack anyway. Other then the defensive stuff and maybe pet power, everything else is pools and wolf spider. Sure, I could have gone bane/wolf for the build but I'd still have the backpack. As such, may as well get the added survivability.
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@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
Quote:
Well, to be fair by 40 even with stamina, there aren't enough Wolf Spider powers to cover everything. It's either dip into one of the other two trees, or get more power pools. And if you already have the crab legs, may as well replace the typical bane spider secondary powers with crab spider powers. Then get your mace via patron powers.|
Originally Posted by Gilia
That's cool. I was just clarifying what a huntsman technically is because the OP sounded new to VEATS. We really should have a name for crabs who use the assault rifle anyway. I mean, you're talking about taking every single crab secondary to dip into it. Fortified Huntsman maybe? Or someone-broke-my-cloaking-device-man! Haha! I really have no good ideas for it.
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But I'm feeling rather meh about taking patron powers. Really, 4 powers is dipping into the tree. Might not get the pets though. Just don't know yet. Took the passive armor upgrade for more mez protection, and fortification for the damage resistance. Might get serum for a self heal. Or might get more leadership toggles instead. Haven't decided yet.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Quote:
Huntsman or Widow comes first. You can't go into crab spider, bane spider, or night widow/fortuneta until 24.
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Originally Posted by McCharraigin
Yes. On my quick read through of the guide, I can see myself dithering over which of the three to start with...I know I will eventually have all three Fort, Huntsman, and Crab, but which comes first
Lisa. |
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Quote:
I get the rationale. You have the backpack anyway, might as well take some crab powers, because it won't change the appearance your Huntsman build would have. But, there's just as many Bane secondary powers as there are Crab. If you did Bane, you could take those powers instead and not be forced into unwanted power pools. So it's not really a matter of being fair.|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Well, to be fair by 40 even with stamina, there aren't enough Wolf Spider powers to cover everything. It's either dip into one of the other two trees, or get more power pools. And if you already have the crab legs, may as well replace the typical bane spider secondary powers with crab spider powers. Then get your mace via patron powers.
But I'm feeling rather meh about taking patron powers. Really, 4 powers is dipping into the tree. Might not get the pets though. Just don't know yet. Took the passive armor upgrade for more mez protection, and fortification for the damage resistance. Might get serum for a self heal. Or might get more leadership toggles instead. Haven't decided yet. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Quote:
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@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
Quote:
You might be confusing a huntsmen I think. By taking all the wolf spider attacks without any attacks from the other trees, your basically a wolf spider. To complete it, the mace master patron pool is all that's needed. Huntsmen are simply the boss versions of wolf spiders, and thus have all the various attacks.|
Originally Posted by Gilia
I get the rationale. You have the backpack anyway, might as well take some crab powers, because it won't change the appearance your Huntsman build would have. But, there's just as many Bane secondary powers as there are Crab. If you did Bane, you could take those powers instead and not be forced into unwanted power pools. So it's not really a matter of being fair.
I believe you're confusing what a Huntsman is again. Lisa is asking which order to play these builds in, not which order they come about in the game. Fort, Huntsman (a bane w/o the mace), and Crab ALL come after level 24. |
And honestly, the wolf spider tree has plenty of attacks. Don't really need any mace attacks, I already have my attack tray pretty much filled.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Quote:
If he goes with DS/Poison, you should go with a full Fortunata. I love Night Widows and Fortunata's equally, but in this pairing the Fort would be a better fit. Since the pets will be a cross between melee and range, your Fortunata will be complete range and provide buffs to yourself, him, and his Demon henchmen.
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Originally Posted by McCharraigin
Hello all.
I have never been able to do a Mastermind, but my better half likes them, so I am thinking of making a VEAT to play with him. So my question is what would go well with Demons. I think he is leaning towards the Poison secondary. I just unlocked the Veats about an hour ago, so I am not experienced with the critters. Forts sound interesting though. Thanks so much Lisa. Edit-Not real sure why I ended my title with a period instead of with a question mark....tired I guess. |
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
Quote:
I don't know what the it is. I think based on the second paragraph that I may have not made this clear: a huntsman does not have mace attacks. Just like a huntsman does not have a crab backpack. Again, I get why you may-as-well take Fortification, rather than Cloaking device or some other Bane secondary. I'm sorry if that isn't clear enough. I guess I'll try one last time in another way: a Huntsman takes the training primaries, but not the Bane primaries, then the Huntsman can take training or Bane secondaries. The patron power pools are not part of the discussion, I don't know why you brought that up.|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
You might be confusing a huntsmen I think. By taking all the wolf spider attacks without any attacks from the other trees, your basically a wolf spider. To complete it, the mace master patron pool is all that's needed. Huntsmen are simply the boss versions of wolf spiders, and thus have all the various attacks.
And honestly, the wolf spider tree has plenty of attacks. Don't really need any mace attacks, I already have my attack tray pretty much filled. |
I think that will exhaust my ability to explain it, so I'm sorry if you're still confused.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
Well, a true 'huntsman' build would have a mace at some point. Why? Cause when you fight npc Huntsmen they whip out a mace and smack you with it in melee. Thus for theme reasons alone you'd need a mace to be complete.
And that mace they use, it hurts.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Quote:
Oooooh! Now I get where your confusion was coming from and where you were headed. Huntsman actually never draw a mace. They just hit you with the rifle like this:|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Well, a true 'huntsman' build would have a mace at some point. Why? Cause when you fight npc Huntsmen they whip out a mace and smack you with it in melee. Thus for theme reasons alone you'd need a mace to be complete.
And that mace they use, it hurts. |
Maybe you're thinking of tac ops, though I don't think they use the assault rifle. http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Arachnos...Spider_Tac_Ops They are the only ones who have a mace and not the word "bane" in their name, though.
These are Lieutenants cause of my difficulty settings, but normally they only come in boss form.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
I'd had a wolf spider huntsman whip out a mace once on me. Think he smacked my level 8 char for 60+ damage with it. Then I kept at range the rest of the fight. His grenades and bullets hurt less.
how do I know it was the huntsman? Cause I'd somehow managed to pull the minions in the boss spawn one at a time. Never saw that coming. Usually they all charge me. Then again I also usually open up with an aoe if I got one.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Quote:
Okay, well I just loaded up the Huntsman in an AE map for that screen shot and about 200 of em all had no mace. The wiki lists none of them having the mace (again, with the exception of tac ops). Some loosely detailed memory is the counter argument for that? I don't know why it's so hard to admit when you're wrong, but I guess that's just the way it is. In fact, it seems to be a theme in these threads...|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
I'd had a wolf spider huntsman whip out a mace once on me. Think he smacked my level 8 char for 60+ damage with it. Then I kept at range the rest of the fight. His grenades and bullets hurt less.
how do I know it was the huntsman? Cause I'd somehow managed to pull the minions in the boss spawn one at a time. Never saw that coming. Usually they all charge me. Then again I also usually open up with an aoe if I got one. |
Anyway, I've thoroughly thread jacked to try to convince someone who can't be convinced by all the evidence possible, so my apologies to the OP and I'll stop now.
A quick edit, it's worth mentioning that the only substantial guide to a Huntsman build on here allows for Maces, but the author only recommends Build Up for performance sake... there's nothing in there about needing a mace to fit the theme.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=124651
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
Demon MM would go very well with a Sonic Corruptor. That much -Res would be amazing.
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Hello all.
I have never been able to do a Mastermind, but my better half likes them, so I am thinking of making a VEAT to play with him.
So my question is what would go well with Demons. I think he is leaning towards the Poison secondary.
I just unlocked the Veats about an hour ago, so I am not experienced with the critters. Forts sound interesting though.
Thanks so much
Lisa.
Edit-Not real sure why I ended my title with a period instead of with a question mark....tired I guess.
So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try
***Dennis DeYoung