What i am supposed to do?


Chad Gulzow-Man

 

Posted

Hello, i just got back to the game after 5 years, so i am again a complete newb in everything.
Im now leveling a fire/kin controller, because my fire/ice tank is so terrible its not even funny.
The thing is, what im supposed to do?
My char damage is a joke, the only thing i do is fire cage then go afk
If i try to use hot feet i have to be in melee range and 90% of the time i get smashed and die in 2 hits.
Im just lvl 23 btw, does it get better later?


 

Posted

Team with people, use your controls and buff teammates with your secondary. That's one option of what to do.


Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus_NA View Post
Hello, i just got back to the game after 5 years, so i am again a complete newb in everything.
Im now leveling a fire/kin controller, because my fire/ice tank is so terrible its not even funny.
The thing is, what im supposed to do?
My char damage is a joke, the only thing i do is fire cage then go afk
If i try to use hot feet i have to be in melee range and 90% of the time i get smashed and die in 2 hits.
Im just lvl 23 btw, does it get better later?
Fire/Kin is not all that strong in low levels. It is not until you get Fire Imps at 32, Transference at 35 and then Fulcrum Shift at 38 that the build becomes powerful . . . and then it is still pretty fragile. Kinetics has only one "defensive" power, Repel, that almost everyone skips. Before getting some kind of super IO build, a Fire/Kin mainly survives by (a) killing stuff fast and using its heal to make up for the damage it takes, or (b) relying upon teammates to take the aggro.

Fire/Kins are very good for certain things, but not that great for others. They are good at killing large numbers of weaker foes, but not great at going after tougher foes. They are so popular because they are good for farming -- but many other controllers are more effective in lower levels and in other situations. Want to handle single tough foes? Illusion/Radiation is known for being able to handle AVs. Want maximum AoE control? No build has more AoE control than and Earth/Trick Arrow, but don't count on doing tons of damage. Mind/TA is pretty close behind, but has more single target damage in low levels.

There are a bunch of Fire/Kin threads on the Controller boards. Look at the guides and other threads, and you should get a pretty good idea of how to play your character.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

so if im not mistaken fire is supposed to have less control but more damage?
its just boring that the only thing i do for the group is spam fire cage
hot feet means i will probaly die speed bost is nice but theres almost always someone there with it too and my heal doesnt really make any diffference
besides everything dies so fast i dont see my toon making any difference in the mission


 

Posted

A good team will make everyone feel a little useless, iroinically enough. Try small teams, say 3 or 4 people. That way you're contributing 1/4th of the workload and not 1/8th


-STEELE =)


Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)

 

Posted

A couple suggestions for working on a level-up build (one that you'll respec out of later) or a secondary build meant for teaming rather than soloing:

There are some Power Pool powers that can be a huge help to teaming, such as the Leadership pool's Maneuvers (+Team Defense), Assault (+Team Damage) and Tactics (+Team ToHit), and the Invisibility pool's Grant Invisibility. Grant Invis + Speed Boost will make you VERY popular on teams that want to speed-stealth through missions and long TFs.

Nobody will every argue with you spamming Siphon Power, which buffs the damage of everyone standing near you by 20% for 30 seconds. Cast that sucker like crazy when on a team!

Powers like Hot Feet are nice, but as you mentioned, they'll get you killed a lot while you're a lowbie. It's arguably better to pick it up later in your build, once you've got enough power to keep foes locked down for a good amount of time and you can burninate them without fear of retaliation.

Smoke is next to useless unless you're on a team that is obsessed with speed-stealthing missions. There are a couple procs you can put in it that can make it worthwhile, but then the power causes foes to aggro on you, so again, it's probably not something you'll be interested in during the lower levels.

Powers that you absolutely want are Flashfire (AoE Stun available at level 12, slotted primarily for recharge until you get to higher levels) and Fire Cages (AoE Immobilize available at level 2), and you want to cast them in that order at the start of a fight. Stun + Immob = Hold.

Siphon Speed is another power you'll almost certainly want to grab as soon as possible, as it helps to bring your powers up a lot more quickly.


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Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Local_Man View Post
Fire/Kin is not all that strong in low levels. It is not until you get Fire Imps at 32, Transference at 35 and then Fulcrum Shift at 38 that the build becomes powerful . . .
You know, I've heard this a lot, and I don't really get it. Mine felt very strong at level 8 when I got Hot Feet and I started soloing hazard zone spawns. Admittedly, blue and green ones, but I was still mowing them down in nothing flat. And by the early 20s I was taking on even or +1 groups... and sometimes dying a lot, but still taking down enough mobs quickly enough that I didn't even care.

I don't know, is it just me having not played any characters with significant amounts of control or AoE before? o.O;

-Morgan.


 

Posted

You'll want to respec later on, most likely, but a very good early tactic, especially if you have to solo, is to lead with Fire Cages, then stack Char (your single target hold) and Ring of Fire on your priority targets. Concentrate on single targets, only splitting up your Char & RoF targets when you've missed someone with Fire Cages.

Basic slotting for the single target attacks will be 1 Accuracy, 1 Endurance Reduction, 1 Recharge and 3 Damage (I advise getting them to 4 slots each ASAP - Acc/EndR/2 Dam - with the rest of the slots when you've got nothing better to do). Fire Cages should be slotted for 2 Accuracy at first, aiming eventually for 3 Accuracy, since it starts at x0.80, plus whatever suits your fancy (haven't gotten high enough with one to figure out the rest - probably End Reduction, since I find I lack the self control to not hit it whenever it comes up, and 2 Damage).


 

Posted

Repel is also an option. I know a lot of people skip it, but I think it's a salvageable power.

The key to using Repel is to remember two things:
- Just because its a toggle power doesn't mean it should always be on
- Most bosses don't have knockback protection on par with their mezz protection

To take advantage of Repel, toggle it on when you're up against a boss. Throw a Char at the boss. If you do not score an Overpower (it has a 15% chance of hitting), run directly toward the boss and send him flying. The amount of time it takes for him to stand up is roughly similar to long it takes for Char to recharge. Hit him again and he's out of the fight. Note that this trick only works for Fire, Mind, and Illusion Control, because they lack -Knockback in their single target hold.

The other ways to use Repel are to trap enemies in corners with it, and also as an emergency manuever to use when an enemy is charging toward a teammate.

This tactic becomes less valuable later on when the Kinetic character becomes an AoE powerhouse, but does offer some options for soloing or teaming early on.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morganite View Post
You know, I've heard this a lot, and I don't really get it. Mine felt very strong at level 8 when I got Hot Feet and I started soloing hazard zone spawns. Admittedly, blue and green ones, but I was still mowing them down in nothing flat. And by the early 20s I was taking on even or +1 groups... and sometimes dying a lot, but still taking down enough mobs quickly enough that I didn't even care.

I don't know, is it just me having not played any characters with significant amounts of control or AoE before? o.O;

-Morgan.
Compare it to a low level Plant Controller for AoE control with damage, and you'll see what I mean. Low level Illusion, Mind and Grav controllers do very good single target damage even in low levels. Fire controllers have to chip away with Damage over Time, and Kinetics gives you no defensive powers to protect you -- you live with your heal. One big problem is endurance . . . Hot feet uses a lot, and Fire Cages uses a lot if you spam it -- before Stamina, that is a very tough combo. Even after Stamina and SOs, you need to slot it with lots of EndRdx until you get Transference.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

There's a number of things I can say to that, but I think maybe it's all going to boil down to "So?"

Plant unquestionably has more low level AoE controls than... anything that I know of, really. I know from experience the power of Mind's low level ST chain, though I never had a character concept I liked enough to get one to double digits. Illusion and Grav's capabilities at those levels are pretty obvious. (I'm in fact becoming very tempted to reroll my Rad/Rad defender as an Ill/Rad...)

But the AoE damage isn't really there. Spamming Roots isn't going to be any more viable than spamming Fire Cages. An AoE confusion... well, that's going to be pretty awesome actually. Still, it's a totally different dynamic.

In any case, I still felt pretty powerful as a low level Fire/Kin. I had to do things totally differently than anything else I've levelled, but when I got the strategy down it was both fun and fast, and it's stayed that way all the way up to 42. So I get kind of tired of seeing people say it can't be those things until the 30s.

-Morgan.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morganite View Post
But the AoE damage isn't really there. Spamming Roots isn't going to be any more viable than spamming Fire Cages. An AoE confusion... well, that's going to be pretty awesome actually. Still, it's a totally different dynamic.
Actually, spamming Roots is more viable than Fire Cages because Roots offer nearly twice the damage of other AoE immobilizes. At low levels, it's quite easy to toss Roots on a mob in Perez Park then duck under cover while it recharges. This coupled with enough damage from confused mobs courtesy of Seeds of Confusion makes Plant a very easy set to enter.

In early levels, Plant will out damage Fire unless you're willing to make the trade off of massive amounts of safety by entering melee with a endurance heavy toggle.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ketch View Post
Actually, spamming Roots is more viable than Fire Cages because Roots offer nearly twice the damage of other AoE immobilizes. At low levels, it's quite easy to toss Roots on a mob in Perez Park then duck under cover while it recharges. This coupled with enough damage from confused mobs courtesy of Seeds of Confusion makes Plant a very easy set to enter.

In early levels, Plant will out damage Fire unless you're willing to make the trade off of massive amounts of safety by entering melee with a endurance heavy toggle.
It is not "nearly," it is "exactly" twice the damage according to the numbers at City of Data. At level 50, Fire Cages does slightly more than 10 damage unslotted, so with Containment and slotting for damage, it will be nearly 40 for each time it is cast (after the first one). Plant Control gets nearly 80 damage for the same cast and the same slotting. Then you have to add in the damage done by foes who are confused and attacking each other -- and since you are already doing damage to those foes, you are getting most of the XP for the damage done by the confused foes.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

So iam lvl 25 now, i just uptaded all my enhancements, have some lvl 25 IOs but mostly DOs because im poor
Things got better, i can feel my damage is doing something and the siphon power that i skiped is very nice
Hot feet is doing 13 dmg per second wich is pretty good but even with a 3 sloted stamina and a EndRedux i cant keep hot feet on for too long or i am out of endurance very fast.
I am now pushing to lvl to 32 to get imps, i heard when you get them they its when the build start to be awesome, so im just waiting now.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus_NA View Post
So iam lvl 25 now, i just uptaded all my enhancements, have some lvl 25 IOs but mostly DOs because im poor
Things got better, i can feel my damage is doing something and the siphon power that i skiped is very nice
Hot feet is doing 13 dmg per second wich is pretty good but even with a 3 sloted stamina and a EndRedux i cant keep hot feet on for too long or i am out of endurance very fast.
I am now pushing to lvl to 32 to get imps, i heard when you get them they its when the build start to be awesome, so im just waiting now.
It is easy to pick up enough influence for SO slotting . . . just go to Wentworth's, find some stuff that has a bunch for sale and zero bids, and bid way below vendor price. You can do it with Salvage, but you will get more faster with recipes. Buy as many as you can, and then run to a vendor (store) to sell them. Keep doing it until you have as much as you need. Even better is to put in low bids and let them sit for a day. King's Row is a great place to do this, as the Wentworth's is right next to one of the Longbow vendors.

You will want to slot up Hot Feet with EndRdx as soon as you can. Standard SO slotting is 3 EndRdx, 2 Damage, 1 Acc. However, you can replace the third EndRdx with a Dam/EndRdx from a PB AoE damage set.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

be careful searching for fire/kin guides. Just because someone claims to be
THE FIRE KIN MASTER
doesn't necessarily mean it's something you wanna follow.


Triumph Lurker: mintmiki 50 emp/archer
basically, if you see a miki on Triumph, it's probably cute and it's probably me.

Huge thanks to cuppamanga and all the folks in the mac help forum for prolonging my borrowed time on this game.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ketch View Post
unless you're willing to make the trade off of massive amounts of safety by entering melee with a endurance heavy toggle.
That's pretty much exactly what I do. `.`

-Morgan.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mintmiki View Post
be careful searching for fire/kin guides. Just because someone claims to be
THE FIRE KIN MASTER
doesn't necessarily mean it's something you wanna follow.
OH, he's not back is he? Reading his posts is like watching a clown beat a dog.


 

Posted

just to update
i just got my imps last night and GOD THEY ARE AWESOME
they do now like 50% of my damage , finally i can start soloing missions at 0/x4 at decent reate
now just waiting for the fuclrum power


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus_NA View Post
finally i can start soloing missions at 0/x4 at decent reate

When this has become the standard on whether a toon is performing, I sometimes wonder about the state of this game.