Is it worth fully slotting Health and Stam?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

I've always wondered this. I've only done it once but I'm not all to sure if its worth it


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@Inconclusive

 

Posted

Depends on what you're slotting.

If you're slotting generic inventions, for example, then no; you won't see much of a return beyond three (ie, 3xGIO50 Endurance Mod/Health), and zero return after four (Thanks, ED).

If you're slotting sets (setting or franken), then 'possibly'; it's contingent upon the desired bonuses.


 

Posted

if set bonuses is what you're after, and have the slots to spare (which I suspect is unlikely), then go for it. any regular health/end mod IO's after the 3rd will hinder you.


 

Posted

Yes and no. In terms of power performance 3 SOs/Generic IOs + Procs is the maximum effective performance. However in some cases fully slotting it with a set can be beneficial. In particular for Health Numina's Convalescence has Ranged Defense, Health and Regeneration which makes it a popular option for some characters. Regenerative Tissue and Doctored Wounds have a Recharge bonus at 5 slots. Similarly Efficacy Adaptor and Performance Shifter have ok set bonuses although in general they are worse than the ones available to Health.


 

Posted

If you're just slotting it with Heal enhancers, then the answer is almost certainly no. The return on adding enhancement to any one aspect of a power beyond the equivalent of 3 even-level SOs is extremely marginal. This is generally true of all aspects of all powers. The whole last three Heal enhancers in six-slotted health adds less than 1/2 the benefit of adding the first one.

Some exception is made occasionally. For example, if you have an extremely long recharge power, the ~15% extra recharge you can eke out by six-slotting the power vs. three-slotting it might represent a pretty large absolute number of seconds. It's still going to be a small relative increase, but when the relative numbers translate into large absolute numbers, sometimes it's compelling.

Health by itself doesn't provide an absolute benefit large enough to merit such an approach. For example, on a level 50 Tanker with fully slotted Dull Pain active (an example of someone with a very large number of HP to base the +regen effect on), the difference in 3-slotted Health and 6-slotted Health is +0.9 HP/sec. That's not a very compelling use of 3 slots.

Health can be nice to slot with IOs such as Miracle:+Recovery, Numina's Convalescence: +Regen/Recovery, and Regen Tissue:+Regen. Putting all three of those plus maximum heal slotting would be an example of a reasonable six-slotted Health. Edit: On the same Tanker as above, adding these three IOs to Health 3-slotted for Heal increase the Tanker's HP regen by 12.7 HP/sec, plus add about 50% of the benefit of unslotted Stamina.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Thank you for the help. I never knew the real numbers. This will really help with my enhancing period. Thank you everyone


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuriken_BladeX View Post
Thank you for the help. I never knew the real numbers. This will really help with my enhancing period. Thank you everyone
*points to Tip Jar*


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cade Lawson View Post
zero return after four (Thanks, ED).
Technically, the return is not zero, although it is quite attenuated.

For example, according to Mids 3 slotting Stamina with generic IOs gives you 49.8% more recovery. Six slotting it the same way gives you 54.5%. This is the difference between 2.5 end/sec recovery and 2.58. Given that the Miracle +Recovery unique on top of three slotted Stamina only gets you from 2.5 to 2.75, and most recovery bonuses are smaller than that, you might want to slot Stamina this way if yours was a build where you had so many slots you didn't know what to do with. The benefit from the extra slots is comparable to the benefit given by some set bonuses.

You probably would come ahead slotting powers for endurance reduction rather than throwing slots into Stamina for these minor gains. But the comparison is not completely direct.



<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

 

Posted

Well..I'm fixing up a scrapper with dual blades and super reflexes. Not much slots there :P


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Posted

I generally five or six slot Stamina with Efficacy Adapters and four or five slot Health with either Miracles or Regenerative Tissues. I'd love to use Doctored Wounds or Numina's, but I can never afford them.


Dec out.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Decorum View Post
I generally five or six slot Stamina with Efficacy Adapters and four or five slot Health with either Miracles or Regenerative Tissues. I'd love to use Doctored Wounds or Numina's, but I can never afford them.
Wait...you can afford MIRACLES but you can't afford Doctored Wounds?

I call shenanigans. The Miracle: Heal IO routinely goes for 20 million. I have gotten an entire SET of Doctored Wounds for less.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Wait...you can afford MIRACLES but you can't afford Doctored Wounds?

I call shenanigans. The Miracle: Heal IO routinely goes for 20 million. I have gotten an entire SET of Doctored Wounds for less.
I normally vendor L50 Doctored Wounds because it's not worth my time to sell it on the market. Crafted pieces have been going for 2M or so, though I haven't looked at them in the last week or so.

Now if we're talking about ones far from L50, I wouldn't know. While I don't restrict myself to level 50 IOs, I haven't messed with Doc Wounds outside of 50s.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
ClawsandEffect shocks me:

Wait...you can afford MIRACLES but you can't afford Doctored Wounds?

I call shenanigans. The Miracle: Heal IO routinely goes for 20 million. I have gotten an entire SET of Doctored Wounds for less.
Well, I haven't done it in quite some time (I'm a couple of months back from having six months off with a busted computer). Are you talking about IOs or recipes? I rarely ever buy IOs, I make everything. The markets may have changed considerably.


Dec out.

 

Posted

Quote:
ClawsandEffect gets data:

Wait...you can afford MIRACLES but you can't afford Doctored Wounds?

I call shenanigans. The Miracle: Heal IO routinely goes for 20 million. I have gotten an entire SET of Doctored Wounds for less.
A quick look at the market and I'll bet I know how I'm doing it without actually checking my builds. The price on that drops CONSIDERABLY at 36 and below...like down to 5 mill and then down to 2 mill and I saw some 1 mill/100ks back and forths below that. I buy them as I come up slowly and don't bother to max them out. I'm only really after them for the bonuses.

I could have sworn Doctored Wounds were more expensive, though. But then as noted, my market sense is still about six months out of whack. This may be time to respec some of my higher toons.


Dec out.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Wait...you can afford MIRACLES but you can't afford Doctored Wounds?
It's a miracle!


If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuriken_BladeX View Post
I've always wondered this. I've only done it once but I'm not all to sure if its worth it
Set bonuses is the only reason I fully slot either of them.


 

Posted

My personal strategy which I sometimes stick to:

Add the two slots after they are chosen for a total of three and generic IO them. When you get to level 42 or similarly high, reslot two better generic IOs and throw in a proc. Or, if you're swimming in slots, proccy proc-proc. Though really, only the health has 300m worth of procs you can slot.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postagulous View Post
My personal strategy which I sometimes stick to:

Add the two slots after they are chosen for a total of three and generic IO them. When you get to level 42 or similarly high, reslot two better generic IOs and throw in a proc. Or, if you're swimming in slots, proccy proc-proc. Though really, only the health has 300m worth of procs you can slot.
Health can't take any procs


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa View Post
Health can't take any procs
The "procs" may actually be the Numina, Miracle, and Regenerative Tissue uniques. Miracle and Numina have fairly attractive 2 slot bonuses, so slotting the uniques and generic Heals from all of those sets for five slots in Health might be an attractive frankenslot strategy.



<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heraclea View Post
The "procs" may actually be the Numina, Miracle, and Regenerative Tissue uniques. Miracle and Numina have fairly attractive 2 slot bonuses, so slotting the uniques and generic Heals from all of those sets for five slots in Health might be an attractive frankenslot strategy.
Oh, I know, thus the smiley.


Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net

Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa View Post
Health can't take any procs
Actually the three uniques that go in health are procs. They are part of a subset of procs sometimes referred to as proc120s. This terminology is important since it differentiates them from globals such as the Luck of the Gambler Recharge IO. Specifically:

Proc120s:
You must use the power every 2 minutes (or have it active if it's a passive power or toggle)
If you exemplar below the level where you can access the power you lose access to the proc120
The level of the IO is only used to determine when you can slot it
All proc120s are unique (this could potentially change in the future)

Globals:
You do not need to use the power to benefit from the IO
If you are exemplared low enough that you can't access the power you can still retain the benefit of the IO
If you exemplar more than three levels below the level of the IO itself you lose access to the bonus
Unless the IO is unique you may benefit from slotting up to 5 of these


 

Posted

Indeed. Functionally, all the "120s" IOs can be considered procs with a 100% chance of activation. Whether this is at odds with one's definition of "proc" depend on what version of definition of that term is being used, as there are a few.

Nonetheless, regardless of the correctness of the term, the "120s" IOs are actually defined in essentially the same way as other "true" procs (like the Performance Shifter chance for +endurance) except that "true" procs add a (X% chance) to the effect definition.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Yeah, my mistake, that thing.