DM/DA vs. Kat/WP


Cyber_naut

 

Posted

Every year or so I reinstall CoH, reactivate my account, play for about a week and get frustrated with the gameplay, learning curve, and in-game immaturity (which is unfair since it IS a kid's genre game) and unsubscribe.

It's that time of year again.

Looking at scrapper AT because I don't have the time or patience to group a whole lot. I have a top-notch concept for a dark/dark/dark scrapper (as well as what I consider to be the best up-to-date player-made guide on the forums...thanks Desmondes), but each time I've tried CoH I've tried DM/DA and hated it, mainly due to the downtime per endurance-hungry DA powers.

I played a Katana/Regen scrapper years ago, and I liked katana well enough, but didn't really like Regen.

I haven't played WP at all. I hear good things about both, particularly for newbies, which I am, despite several months of playtime (there's a lot about this game I don't understand even after reading all the FAQ stickies). I can come up with a natural origin concept for Katana/WP with no problems.

So I've narrowed it down to DM/DA or Kat/WP. Keep in mind I'm coming back with little to no understanding of the game anymore, zero influence (I'm sure I gave it all away or eventually got swindled during a transfer, who knows?) and absolutely no clue what a mid is. Out of those two builds:

1). Which has a smoother newbie learning curve?

2). Which is better for primarilly solo levelling?

3). Which has a longer shelf-life at end game?

4). Which has less downtime? (I have a GUESS on this one, but I'd rather hear it from someone else)

5). Probably most important to my situation, which costs less to make a playable toon as far as enhancements go?

I'm not exactly worried about top-notch uberness or AV killing (let's face it, I probably couldn't kill an AV with the best AV build in the game), I'm just trying to level a toon to 50, something I haven't been able to do in CoH in, what, 6 years?


 

Posted

1) Katana/Willpower
2) Katana/Willpower
3) Katana/Willpower
4) Katana/Willpower
5) Katana/Willpower

I hate to make it sound that simple, as I'm a big fan of both Dark Melee and Dark Armor (though I've never played them together). But honestly, I think it's that simple. Just my opinion, of course.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by flugel View Post
Every year or so I reinstall CoH, reactivate my account, play for about a week and get frustrated with the gameplay, learning curve, and in-game immaturity (which is unfair since it IS a kid's genre game) and unsubscribe.
I've never really experienced this, perhaps a different server?


Quote:
Looking at scrapper AT because I don't have the time or patience to group a whole lot. I have a top-notch concept for a dark/dark/dark scrapper (as well as what I consider to be the best up-to-date player-made guide on the forums...thanks Desmodos), but each time I've tried CoH I've tried DM/DA and hated it, mainly due to the downtime per endurance-hungry DA powers.
Thanks for the compliment. Unless you're prepared to invest considerably into IOs, I doubt anything will change your opinion of DM/DA. With out IOs, the set can be manageable (as in no downtime), but you have to like the set as is or you'll never play it long enough to get the hang of it.



Quote:
Out of those two builds:

1). Which has a smoother newbie learning curve?
With out question, Kat/WP

Quote:
2). Which is better for primarilly solo levelling?
If by better you mean easier, with out question, Kat/WP

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3). Which has a longer shelf-life at end game?
Tricky question, depends a great deal on play style. Ultimately they rank equally in this category.

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4). Which has less downtime? (I have a GUESS on this one, but I'd rather hear it from someone else)
With out IOs, with out question, Kat/WP

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5). Probably most important to my situation, which costs less to make a playable toon as far as enhancements go?
This really depends on what you chose to focus on. At peak performance, there is essentially no significant difference in cost. Kat/WP is considerably easier to manage without IOs.



I REALLY like both WillPower and Dark Armor. Both are really strong and fun secondaries to play, but each bring very different tools to game. WillPower is just very intuitive and has the easiest learning curve of any mitigation set I've ever played.


Have you considered Kat/Dark?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmodos View Post
I've never really experienced this, perhaps a different server?
Mind you, I almost never team, but yeah, I've experienced very little immaturity in the game. I mostly play on Victory, having mostly abandoned my original home of Virtue. Victory seems fairly empty, with mostly an experienced adult population. Probably not a great place for teaming due to seemingly low population, but pretty decent if that's not an issue. Virtue had a high population, and became the unofficial role playing server if that's your cup of tea. It isn't mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmodos View Post
Have you considered Kat/Dark?
Eesh! Easier to get the hang of than Dark/Dark, I suppose. And very strong. But a little, funky? But anything Dark Armor is a little funky. It just doesn't play like a "normal" secondary, if there is such a thing, at least if you use the full toolbox it gives you. And you need to manage your endurance. You CAN manage it, but it takes some effort.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Thanks for the replies, fellows!!

Kat/DA I've read a lot about. Can't justify a concept. Personally, if I could generate auras of darkness, I wouldn't even fool with a sword...know what I mean? :P

Oh, here's another question. With a natural origin, are any missions wholly problematic for katana damage? Maybe I should rephrase: which villain groups are highly resistant to lethal?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by flugel View Post
Oh, here's another question. With a natural origin, are any missions wholly problematic for katana damage? Maybe I should rephrase: which villain groups are highly resistant to lethal?
Thus is largely a none issue. At best, it's an over exaggerated issue. If you feel like it's affecting you, invest in a Achile's Heel: resistance debuff PROC. Just one should to the trick.


SI Radio has many DJs and listeners whom hold City of Heroes close to their hearts. We will be supporting many efforts to keep CoH ALIVE!!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Mind you, I almost never team, but yeah, I've experienced very little immaturity in the game. I mostly play on Victory, having mostly abandoned my original home of Virtue. Victory seems fairly empty, with mostly an experienced adult population. Probably not a great place for teaming due to seemingly low population, but pretty decent if that's not an issue.
Mild disagreement with Werner here. I've played on Victory since Issue 2, basically since I started playing CoH. Victory is by no means empty, though is certainly isn't as populated as some of the larger servers. Victory is very forum and global channel driven. Virtually everyone...and I mean EVERYONE is hidden. This seems to throw a lot of people off for some reason.

First thing I do on every new character is hide and remove broadcast from my chat windows. 2nd thing I do one every new character is add all the global channel windows (Victory Forum, Victory Badges, Victory Badges 2009) as well as SG globals. 90% of all teams I play on are formed either on the forums or one of the global channels. I rarely if ever have issues forming or joining a team.


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Posted

See? I've owned the game for 4 years, and I don't even know what global channel windows or hidden even means :P

I played some on victory. Got a TON of multiple blind invites by people who just wanted to pick fights. I guess being hidden, or anonymous, alleviates that.

Seems to me like none of the servers are as populated as they used to be, not even Freedom. Have yet to see a costume contest in Atlas anywhere yet, so far

Here's a thing. Redraw annoys me. Seems like the big + about WP is no redraw, yes? Does Boxing cause redraw? Mojo's Guide's levelling sample build has it in there, but maybe just for tough/weave?

I didn't really mention Dual Blades because I assume the combo aspect automatically makes it less newbie-friendly than Katana. Am I correct in this highly baseless assumption?


 

Posted

Right, no redraw with Willpower. Well, Strength of Will probably, but not a big deal. Some people don't even take that power. Boxing does cause redraw, but you won't be using it. It's just there to get to Tough and Weave.

The combo system on Dual Blades is optional, and the low level combos aren't necessarily worth taking. By the time you get to the combos that are worth taking, you're more experienced with the set. It's pretty easy, at least for anyone that uses attack chains. You just set up an attack chain that includes the combo. Dual Blades/Willpower won't, in my opinion, be as simple or powerful as Katana/Willpower. But it's a lot of fun, and a reasonable option.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Mind you, I almost never team, but yeah, I've experienced very little immaturity in the game. I mostly play on Victory, having mostly abandoned my original home of Virtue. Victory seems fairly empty, with mostly an experienced adult population. Probably not a great place for teaming due to seemingly low population, but pretty decent if that's not an issue. Virtue had a high population, and became the unofficial role playing server if that's your cup of tea. It isn't mine.
I'm a teamer at heart, and in 26 months or so I experienced immaturity twice. Once in Freedom, once in Virtue, and that's it. Despite having all the Brazilian people to team with (there aren't many of us in CoX but we have a very tight community on Freedom, especially since many don't understand English well) and being part of the Repeat Offenders, a nice buncha folks, I still do PUGs a lot, including TFs. Since I came back I basically pugged and it's been great so far, including a very fun 3-hour Synapse in Virtue (with no RP at all, I don't RP but I don't mind when people do).

I remember finding Justice a bit weird, I was in a Defender-only superteam with the R. Offenders and when I logged in to Justice I got lots of blind invites, I rarely get them on Freedom/Virtue. Just played there for like 7 days so I can't judge, just what I experienced.

Ok to the OP: my first toon was a mind/emp controller (busy and clicky as hell, got even worse when IO'ed out with recharge because I could fort 4 people, perma-AB one, and Mind Control is also very busy by itself). I tried lots of scrappers and got bored with them quickly in the beginning. Then I read an i7 (I think) guide on DM/DA (by Gamemaster) and got her to 50, I guess because of the controllerish feel of the set and the busy primary and secondary especially when coupled together. But I think it may be the least newbie friendly set. I have a SS/WP Brute at 28-30 , something like that and it was a smooth ride since the beginning, I suppose it's easier on a scrapper because you don't have to chew blues like mad in the beginning since you're not a slave to Fury. But I find active secondaries like /DA and /Elec more interesting, depends on your playstyle.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by flugel View Post
Kat/DA I've read a lot about. Can't justify a concept. Personally, if I could generate auras of darkness, I wouldn't even fool with a sword...know what I mean? :P
Once you get Divine Avalanche and become indestructible, you'll use that sword constantly. Each hit, unenhanced, gets you 15% defense to melee and lethal damage. When you hit 45%, you're untouchable.

I have a level 41 katana/wp. Tied with my ill/storm controller for most fun ever.

There are guides here on how to find a team. I'd suggest them even if you're on Freedom or Virtue. Also, NEVER accept a blind invite. That just lets you know the leader doesn't know how to play the game.

If you decide to IO, build your fire, cold, energy, and negative defense. That's your only hole.

That said, there are tons more cool looking broadswords and it's the same powerset, just slower and more damaging per activation.

But DM/DA isn't bad, but you'll hurt for endurance, and with /wp, you get a second, better, Stamina in Quick Re...something. QR.


 

Posted

Definitely katana/wp. My first 50 scrapper will be dm/da, but it's kind of fiddly. Really useful and powerful, but if you want something that just works, willpower is the way to go. Also have a db/willpower, and yes, if you just want it to work, probably avoid dual blades. I'm happy with it now, but early on it was sort of underwhelming, and you sound like you don't want to fool around with combos. Katana/willpower should be really straightforward.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
1) Katana/Willpower
2) Katana/Willpower
3) Katana/Willpower
4) Katana/Willpower
5) Katana/Willpower

I hate to make it sound that simple, as I'm a big fan of both Dark Melee and Dark Armor (though I've never played them together). But honestly, I think it's that simple. Just my opinion, of course.

This. Not to say DM/DA is bad, just more complexity to it (though that's not to say you need a doctorate to use it...).

Work divine avalanche into your attack chain and you'll be really study while having good single target and aoe abilities.