Standard response to origin changes like this:
We've had origins doing nothing for six years. We can't change origins - I don't believe the character data is built in a way that would *allow* us to change it (origin being one of four character defining, unchangeable items, including AT, primary and secondary.) You would thus be denying people an option that, if this were in game from day one, would be an informed choice and part of character building. You'd essentially be punishing people for giving no attention to what's been, basically, a "throwaway" character piece, or for choosing an origin for RP as opposed to min/max reasons.
No thanks, I'd really prefer that origins didn't affect gameplay in that manner, especially since you can't respec into a new origin.
Feel free to try out my AE mission arc, # 473452: Praetorian Redemption
@Valerika
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I think the idea is ok. Using body builder as an example, I think it would be better if it doesn't take away 5% resistance, but maybe a slower runspeed for example(conceptually, you are less agile when your body gets bulky). The idea is that people tend to maximize certain attributes, and the perks will lead them picking or avoiding certain origin. The idea is ok if the perks enhance and take away attributes that most people can't or bother to maximize. (maybe runspeed that I mentioned is not good either if the character uses stone armor)
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Originally Posted by Shuriken_BladeX
For each origin there could be 5 perks. Each giving a pay out that only effects Pve and the arena, while also giving the option to turn them off before the patch. They would not work in pvp zones though.
Each perk could give the same Pay out but with different negative aspect. Like for natural. Bodybuilder- 10% strength to each attack but takes away 5% from resistance Mutants Mutated strength- 10% strength to each attack but takes away from regen. |
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Heres the thing. There would be 5 different types of perks for each origin. Each doing something similar. If they made it respec able. Then you could rechose your perk. It wouldn't be a matter of choosing a different origin because each perk will be the same but with different set backs
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Originally Posted by Solicio
No thanks, I'd really prefer that origins didn't affect gameplay in that manner, especially since you can't respec into a new origin.
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@Inconclusive
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Yeah this is why I wanted someone to pick it apart and not just throw it to the wind. I wasn't able to think of all 5 perks but another one I had an idea about was|
Originally Posted by Twilight_Snow
I think the idea is ok. Using body builder as an example, I think it would be better if it doesn't take away 5% resistance, but maybe a slower runspeed for example(conceptually, you are less agile when your body gets bulky). The idea is that people tend to maximize certain attributes, and the perks will lead them picking or avoiding certain origin. The idea is ok if the perks enhance and take away attributes that most people can't or bother to maximize. (maybe runspeed that I mentioned is not good either if the character uses stone armor)
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Natural- Flame resistant clothing
Mutant- cold blooded
Each give you an increase in fire resistance but with something negative to go with it. With cold blooded it can make your slowdown resistance go down just a bit. With the 5 pickable option I still think adding an option to it so you don't have to take a perk would keep the classic players happy. That way they can't complain about the perks taking away something.
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/Unsigned, thanks. I really dont see this being anything more than trouble.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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1. If they were just "all the same," why not just call them inherents instead of "origin-something?"|
Originally Posted by Shuriken_BladeX
Heres the thing. There would be 5 different types of perks for each origin. Each doing something similar. If they made it respec able. Then you could rechose your perk. It wouldn't be a matter of choosing a different origin because each perk will be the same but with different set backs
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2. Again, can't respec origins. While *new* characters could decide on their drawbacks, etc. by picking an origin at creation, old ones (well over a million - I don't recall the exact number mentioned a few anniversaries ago on created characters) would be stuck. Using your original example, my mutant /regen scrapper would be getting penalized for being mutant if they wanted to use the extra damage - for an option they could have picked *years* ago. No, saying "don't pick one then" does not "keep classic players happy," as you're now telling them "don't use the system that just got added." It'd be like restricting the upcoming Incarnate system to newly made characters only.
No. Just no.
So a new system would have to be perfect and even if they gave an option so you don't have to pick one, it would still be bad? You can't really keep everyone happy no matter what you add. People hated the pvp changes and they are still in effect.
The examples I gave weren't good ones. I used them as examples of what the perks could be. I can't come up with something perfect that everyone would like because i know someone would think it would think it was terrible if it took away from capping their character.
These would be perks attached to your origin. Even if they were added it wouldn't be a case of oh we can't this or we can't have that. Because they could easily be made similar but not exactly the same. The devs can easily add a system of that sort. Calling it "Origin power pools" or something that are only active to your origin. I can't piece together extreme details but if people were still upset about an option to pick not to use it then idk.
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@Inconclusive
If all of your "origin perks" do the same thing, what's the point? At that point, it just becomes an issue of asking for the devs to provide the character weaknesses that have been asked for since the beginning of the game. Each "perk" has a weakness and a commensurate benefit. Why does it even need to have "origin" associated with it when the devs could just give them to players with more functionally generic names?
Keep in mind that this doesn't mean that I agree with providing the weakness/strength functionality at all. I'm simply saying that, if they're all going to be the same, what's the point of tying them to origin?
Adding similar strengths to the perks would take away from people saying they can't have something because they are a certain origin. To add to this.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=215603
That could be added to the perk system. Giving a boost to the perk depending on what area you are in. There could also be more than one strength to a perk to go along with the weakness
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@Inconclusive
And one you *keep ignoring* -
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*SIX YEARS* worth of already created characters. You want to tie these to one of the FEW things we can't change. ED? Changed slotting, later dealt with IOs. IOs? Easily retrofitted (or ignored.) Power changes? Change slotting or power changes with a respec. Tie something to origin? Stuck with a choice you could have made years ago and can't change.| Again, can't respec origins. While *new* characters could decide on their drawbacks, etc. by picking an origin at creation, old ones (well over a million - I don't recall the exact number mentioned a few anniversaries ago on created characters) would be stuck. Using your original example, my mutant /regen scrapper would be getting penalized for being mutant if they wanted to use the extra damage - for an option they could have picked *years* ago. No, saying "don't pick one then" does not "keep classic players happy," as you're now telling them "don't use the system that just got added." It'd be like restricting the upcoming Incarnate system to newly made characters only. |
Let me reiterate that last part so that maybe you get it.
You can't change origin in response. You would affect literally millions of characters for something they picked when it had no real affect, when it was a "flavor" option.
Do you get what the big issue you're not addressing is yet? And no, "Just ignore it then" is not addressing it.
Your idea will:
- Annoy casual players who will suddenly have some drawback someone else does.
- Annoy RPers who are getting penalized.
- Annoy those who like to min/max their builds for best efficiency for a choice they can't change.
Also, seeing as origins are mainly used for rp purposes. The perks could also be used in the manner. Giving a perk that increases speed could be used for those that wanna make character like flash but didn't want them to be extremely like flash.
Maybe your character was naturally fast, was a track running in school. The perk tied to nature could fit there. Even if they were a mutant maybe thats why they were fast. They mutation caused them to be fast. (Even if they weren't using super speed).
A person with a natural user with the flame resistant could be a fireman or something? If anything this could take the rp use of origins even further.
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@Inconclusive
If the option to respec out and rechoose your origin perk it still would be bad? How could it upset rpers if they don't have to pick it? I can't come up with perfect option that everyone would love.
With the places of power idea they could take away the penalties and make it so that the perk is only really powered up when your in a place of power. Even if they made a perk for each origin that covered every base while giving something to make them different from the others it would still be bad? You wouldn't have to respec out of your origin or anything. Just pick a different perk.
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@Inconclusive
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Unfortunately, your new suggestion doesn't quite escape this issue. True there's no reason for one AT to just be a specific origin, but the penalties give a reason for certain ATs, or at least power sets to AVOID specific origins. For instance, your Body Builder example in your first post. Any Character with a resist based defense set would want to avoid being Natural origin, because it chips into said characters survival.
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Originally Posted by Shuriken_BladeX
Adding similar strengths to the perks would take away from people saying they can't have something because they are a certain origin. To add to this.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=215603 That could be added to the perk system. Giving a boost to the perk depending on what area you are in. There could also be more than one strength to a perk to go along with the weakness |
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
I was just giving a couple ideas of possible perks. I realized that the examples were crappy. I was looking for better ideas of what they could be.
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@Inconclusive
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Sorry your head is hurting dude
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@Inconclusive
Oh well. it was an idea I wanted to get out there. I was hoping it would cover all the bases but it didn't. Worth a try anyway.
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@Inconclusive
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Facepalm isn't for a hurting head. It's for ideas that are so bad that it is impossible to otherwise elucidate ones utter disgust with the inability of another to properly comprehend what is going on.
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Originally Posted by Shuriken_BladeX
Sorry your head is hurting dude
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Sarcasm doesn't translate well.
I don't know all the rules about what can be added and what can't be added. Which is why I asked question so I could fill blanks in for myself. I didn't attack anyone or go with the idea of Your wrong I'm right type thing. I asked questions so I could find out myself. I always try to stay nice on these things. I didn't care for that whole facepalm pic thing.
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In that case, may I suggest you try the Player Questions section? That way, everyone there would know you're trying to get information about a certain subject, and are less likely to respond with snark. Then, once you have more information, you can put together a more complete suggestion, if you still have one beased on the answers you've received.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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I've gotten treated the same way on there at times. Oh well I'll go there first anyway.
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Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
In that case, may I suggest you try the Player Questions section? That way, everyone there would know you're trying to get information about a certain subject, and are less likely to respond with snark. Then, once you have more information, you can put together a more complete suggestion, if you still have one beased on the answers you've received.
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@Inconclusive
Origin perks What is this Champion Online, This is City of Heroes and I don't Think we need to tear everything apart in this game, just leave them alone, The Game is fine as it is.
Never play another NcSoft game, If you feel pride for our game, then it as well, I Superratz am Proud of all of you Coh people, Love, Friendship will last for a lifetime.
Global:@Greenflame Ratz
Main Toons:Super Ratz, Burning B Radical, Green Flame Avenger, Tunnel Ratz, Alex Magnus
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That alright, even some of my ideas can be bad and good at time, What matter is that you try express an idea, even if people don't like it.
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Originally Posted by Shuriken_BladeX
Oh well. it was an idea I wanted to get out there. I was hoping it would cover all the bases but it didn't. Worth a try anyway.
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Never play another NcSoft game, If you feel pride for our game, then it as well, I Superratz am Proud of all of you Coh people, Love, Friendship will last for a lifetime.
Global:@Greenflame Ratz
Main Toons:Super Ratz, Burning B Radical, Green Flame Avenger, Tunnel Ratz, Alex Magnus
For each origin there could be 5 perks. Each giving a pay out that only effects Pve and the arena, while also giving the option to turn them off before the patch. They would not work in pvp zones though.
Each perk could give the same Pay out but with different negative aspect.
Like for natural.
Bodybuilder- 10% strength to each attack but takes away 5% from resistance
Mutants
Mutated strength- 10% strength to each attack but takes away from regen.
This is an idea I came up with in the middle of the night. i'm looking for people to pick it apart for me.
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@Inconclusive