I'm a slow idiot.

Well, everybody and their cat can complain how bad bad tankers are, we all can emphatically agree that bad tankers are useless, but... Well, how to get better?

No, really, it isn't trolling, it's a genuine question. I rolled my Shields/Elec with TFs in mind, but now all I do on him is farming Rikti in RWZ and declining team invites, especially if there's anything about "needing a tank". I don't want to be the worst player on the team... I seriously have no idea what exactly a tank is supposed to do to "hold aggro", or rather the thing I see others doing seems to me, well, patently impossible to do. How can anyone alternate between different targets WITH SUCH A SPEED? and how do you see what's happening in all that lightshow anyway? Lrn2play, I suppose, but... I don't want to be a team-ruining guy while I do learn. Especially on small EU servers where everyone knows everyone else.

Ok, sorry, just wanted to blow off steam... Having a tank seemed such a good idea, but it seems that the only way I can melee is scrapperlock, I need some distance between me and the baddies to have any sort of situational awareness... Well, /me goes to roll Cold/something defender or Something/cold troller... At least you can't miss ice shields vanishing from teammates.

Okay, I am not the best tanker out there. But I am a "good" tank. First, as a tank I do not see my job as a damage dealer. My job is a controller. I control where the team goes, and if they are safe when they get there.

First choice. Pull with taunt, or run into the midst of the spawn. Depends on how fast your team can kill the spawn usually. If they are struggling, pull.

Second, when you get into the spawn, taunt as fast as it pops up, being careful to alternate targets. The first thing I do on every toon I roll is keymap three button on my keyboard for "nearest target", "next target" , and "previous target". On a tanker it is also useful to have keys mapped for "neasrest teammate". That way you can target through them fast. Use these hot keys to continue alternating through targets fast.

I get area attacks as much as possible, slot them for rech and accuracy. Again, it aint about the damage. If I take SS I will take hand clap as a panic button. It can stun a spawn that is wailing on my team, but it scatters the mob, so use wisely.

On my willpower tank, who has blue to burn, I take all 3 leadership toggles, so my team kills faster.

As a tank it is just real important to control the mob around you. If someone runs after the next mob, you cannot control that. Never rush too much. Its just a very strategic position to play. Calls for a cool head.

When I first started playing a tank, I slotted a lot of my powers for Taunt Duration. I took taunt. I used Taunt a lot.

Use Dual Builds to have a Tanking Setup and a Solo Setup. In the team version, be heavily slotted for defense and taunt. Take AoE attacks that can taunt. Take Hand Clap type powers that can be helpful to control the environment. On the solo build, be a little more normal, slot for damage, take powers that you would use solo. That way depending on what the team needs you have both.

If the team needs a tank, they should be going at your pace. Tanks are really the leaders of most teams I play on. It is your debt if you die, not theirs. So man up and make decisions.

The control that a Tanker can get over a spawn is magnificent. It allows a team to do as it will.

Take notice of what others are doing to make things worse for you though.

1. Often if they aren't letting you "grab" aggro before they attack its their fault. Its much harder to take aggro from other toons than it is to hold aggro.

2. Knockback can literally push mobs out of your AoE taunt effects. If that's what is causing the problem, the problem is with the person using the knockback, not your tank.

3. Know that there is an aggro limit. That you can't possibly hold 20 mobs all by yourself. With that many bad guys even rotating attacks will not keep them all taunted. I think you could do this in issue 3, but you can't today. No one should expect you to.

4. Pay attention to who is buffing you. It is important to know how much tougher you actually are from buffs, debuffs, and heals. Often as things start moving faster the buffers forget to buff you and it can make a huge difference in what you can tank. Debuff's are also important to know because they are less obvious, but still very effective.

5. Some teams you just can't team with, but usually tight nit communities tend to be more helpful in the long run. They want you to be better and available to help them in the future. But know when a team is asking the impossible and call them out.

6. As you get better, and learn more, you will get a feel for it. I laugh when I see posts that say are Tanks dead because Brutes can go Blueside. Brutes and Tanks are just not the same. It is laughable because a Brute can be an offensive machine, but it will never have the control ability available to Tanks. Gauntlet is too good an inherent at what it does. Tanks are very valuable, but if you are soloing with yours then yes you are wasting your best powers. Tanks are really support characters and give up a lot in firepower to be able to help protect a team from really hard stuff. And to be honest, teams don't need a tank if they aren't doing really hard stuff, but a Tank's ability even on easier stuff to keep all the mobs in one tight place is so helpful to team speed, since AoE's will be more effective.

Tanks are awesome bud; they may not be for you but they are awesome. I hope you figure it out.

Here's a few basics for you.

First, you're always the first into the mob. This makes sure that your aura gets a chance to establish aggro before someone else tosses a fireball. As a quick & dirty method you can do a fast lap around the group (provided they're clumped decently) then end up at the back of the group... that way all the mobs are facing YOU and AWAY from the team. This keeps AOE cones from affecting your team. If you see a mob turn around hit him with a Taunt to keep him looking at you.

As Hera mentioned play with your camera zoomed out so you can see both the mobs and your teammates. Anytime you see something head toward the team taunt it. Rotate your attacks to spread out the love and maximize your punchvoke. This is easier than you think, punch the guy in front of you, then select someone to your left and punch him, then punch someone on your right. Your AOE attacks are a big help with this, use them as well.

When dealing with spread out mobs it's frequently easiest to clump them up on you; and there's lots of ways to do that. You can do the quick circle around them and then move behind something to break line of sight... this is the easiest method but it's also the slowest and frequently the controller will slap an immobilize on the mobs while they're spread out. You can practice jumping into one group, then jump into another, then back to the first... this usually causes them to clump on you.

Here's something you may want to try out, set your difficulty to 6 man team, even level mobs and get a radio mission of easy mobs. Enter the mission solo and practice gathering groups up and clumping them tight. That's the best way I can think of to get your techniques down, and you'll be able to practice them by yourself.

Wow, thanks for all those replies, lots of useful (to me, anyway) advice!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclea Now, as to what you do to hold aggro - I gather this is a first tanker?

First one that wasn't deleted after dinging 15 or so, anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclea You should take Taunt, if you haven't yet, and open with it. Then aim for the spawns standing away from where you Taunted, and Shield Charge them. You should have also taken Against All Odds; this buffs your damage and gives you an aura that keeps nearby mobs taunted. Thanks to Against all Odds, your Shield Charge will do more damage after you get some mobs within its range first.

Yes, I've taken all those, it's easy to find _build_ advice, much less so anything about what to do with those things. But I still don't quite see how this is supposed to work. Let's take, well, Rikti as an example. Those drones, mesmerists, comm officers, and etc. would still stay where they are, -range or no. Wouldn't it mean that I would have to re-taunt mobs often, losing my melee targetting?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclea Wheel your camera as far back as it will go. Try to watch whether there are loose mobs from a spawn, or whether a controller's pets have aggroed another spawn. Fire off a Taunt at those if it is up and you can; otherwise just try to intercept as well as you can.

Hmm... That's part of it, I'm just not used to controlling the camera that way, especially on the move, it confuses me. In fact I set up my binds in such a way that view is re-centered whenever I follow something. probably, just for tanks I should do something like
/bind BUTTON4 "follow"
/bind F "follow$$camreset$$camdist 20"
instead of the other way around I use on the most characters... (button 5 is Tab with a priority for cysts, voids and sappers, and Tab itself is for whatever I'm hunting (glowies, badge mobs, etc.) That probably could be left alone. )

I don't consider myself to be the "best" tank ever by any stretch of the imagination but I am a good tank and have learned from some very good ones by watching and asking questions.

First.. as mentioned forget scrapperlock it's not your job and if you try to play a tank like a scrapper you will fail miserably. That's not to say that some tank builds can't scrap and do it well but if you are TANKING for an 8 man team running off in a corner to knock off a lieutenant while the team deals with the mob you just aggroed is NOT a good thing.

Second .. we have the same primary SD. You have several powers that taunt automatically. Against all Odds and Shield Charge. Now my secondary is SS so in addition to Taunt I also have Foot Stomp which just really P***es off anything that it hits. When the situation allows I head into the mob with Shield Charge, already having Against all Odds on, and then I hit Foot Stomp knocking everthing in range on it's butt a second time. So within a few seconds I have taunted 3 times and knocked the entire mob on it back twice. I slot both for accuracy and damage so by the time the mob gets up the second time most of the minions are lucky to still be at half life and everyone is after ME. Team comes in behind and while I am pounding on things and keep hitting just regular old taunt as fast as it recharges, and I have it slotted for recharge, they are mopping up the mob. Wash, Rinse and repeat until you see big green letters..MISSION COMPLETE

Third.. keep in mind that most TANKER secondary powers come with a certain amount of taunt added to every attack. No you don't need to just stand there like a slab of meat watching your team mates have all the fun.. HIT things! Every blow you land just taunts a little more and helps keep your team alive so they can polish off the mob and move to the next one.

Fourth.. If you don't like looking bad in front of others practice alone. I learned to herd from a very good herding tanker and I practiced my craft while soloing. I'd round up 2-3 or whatever amount of mobs I though I could handle solo and aggro them all to the spot I wanted to fight. Then stood there pounding away until I was the only one left standing.

Fifth.. be patient in the early game you don't do much damage and realistically aren't too good at holding aggro yet either. YEAH you can take taunt at level 10 but the reality is unless you hook up with an amazing team if you rush into a huge mob at level 10 and try to taunt/hold aggro more often than not you'll watch the end of the battle face down on the ground. You just don't have the defenses available yet to cope with that amount of damage all at once. As your level increases and you defenses and attacks do as well you start to shine. You are never going to do the damage that a Scapper or Blaster does but some of your higher end attacks do a LOT of damage. I have soloed with Tanks up to and including level 50.. and taken on and defeated my share of Preatroan Villains .. as EBs not AV although if I had more IOs in slots I think I could have even taken most as AVs solo.. those Elite Bosses went down pretty easy.

Lastly you are not alone... I started as a Scrapper and for a long time tried to play every AT like one. I KNOW the reason I took so long warming up to Blasters was every time I rolled one I tried to play it like a scrapper and ended up deleting them all. Now Blasters seem like a favorite to me and I love the massive damage I bring to a team .. and using the strategy and tactics I learned I even solo very successfully with them.

Every AT is different and requires a different plan to use if you want to look "good". If I am playing a Tank I take it very personally if anyone on my team dies while i am still standing. If I have on a EMP or Thermal Defender. same thing I will stand there and end up face down on the floor healing and buffing before I let a team mate fall. With my Blaster.. Hi guys I'll be the one WAYYY back here doing enormous amounts of damage so you can mop up... oh if you die I am running like a mad woman (that would be away not toward the bad guys LOL Okay I have a few Blappers that can stand toe to toe and deal damage). Controllers? hehehe Relax everyone nothing is moving anywhere and they can't hit a thing go have fun beating them up. As for my Scrappers... SIGH I miss the old days when Regen made me a Goddess and I'd enter a mission with 7 team mates and ask if they wanted to play too of should I just go destroy everything in sight. Scrapper do DAMAGE.. I pick out the biggest, meanest, nasiest thing I can find in a mob and go destroy it then help out with whatever is left. Once you learn to play your tank as a TANK you'll be fine.

Hey my Tanker buddy helped me out by teaming with me. i was the tank and he brought along a diffferent AT. He coached me through missions so I learned how to be a TANK. Find a good tank you like and ask for some lessons!

I actually found rolling a bot/dark MM and running solo x8 mishes prepares you for the roll of a tanker quite well - you're constantly having to taunt, trying to draw all the aggro from the rest of your team (7 in total), while you only have 1 actual attack (sands of mu in my case)

Okay going down your build. You're defense capped. You have very little to fear unless you're running into large +50 mobs or stuff with strong defense debuffs. Get in there, taunt, smack stuff up, and generally make a nuisance of yourself!

1: Deflection is overslotted for defense. Anything more than 3 straight up defense IOs is essentially wasted. If you got rid of one defense IO you could free up a slot for elsewhere in the build.
2: Combat Jumping is overslotted. I can see you wanting to three slot the Zephyrs to take advantage of KB protection when Active Defense isn't up.
3: Health is overslotted. WAY overslotted. At least two of those slots could be quite useful elsewhere.
4: Look at maybe dropping your Epic/Ancillary and Leadership pools. Look at the Fighting pool instead. It'll keep you above defense cap, and will also add a decent amount of resistance. And that's only if you slot it with End Reduction. If you actually slot for defense, you'll give yourself a nice comfortable padding against successful defense debuffs. If you're worried about End consumption,l grab Conserve power and three-slot recharges.
5: In general, you're just way, WAY overbuilt for recharge. Essentially scrapperthink. Concentrate a bit more on accuracy and EndRedux.
6: Build for more accuracy. This way you don't have to run with an end-heavy toggle like Focused Accuracy.


Here's a suggested build. It's SLIGHTLY slower on recovery. But that's offset by the fact that it's idle end-drain is much lower (only slightly higher than when FA is off). Plus the attacks all have EndRed built in now. PLUS, when you're REALLY hurting for end, you have at least one attack designed to feed a bit of End back to you. PLUS you have Conserve power.

Note: This is a really, REALLY rough build just using more or less the same components you already have (took some liberties with Taunt). I could probably dial this in a bit more so you'd have more of the "Yes, I AM going to hit you" that your build has. But since things like Taunt are auto-hit in PVE, I'm not sure it's necessary.

Your build should be, more or less, fine for teaming. You'll just want to watch your end bar closely and you'll be hurt fairly badly if a couple lucky shots get through in a row. Carry greens and blues for the most part and you should be fine.
Regen is also lower. But, as you're ABOVE cap BEFORE a single ally stands near you, this isn't a huge deal.


Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.621
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Shield Redux: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(3), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(3), ResDam-I:50(5), ResDam-I:50(5)
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:40(7), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(7), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(9), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(9), T'Death-Dam%:40(11)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(11), DefBuff-I:50(13), EndRdx-I:50(13)
Level 4: Jacobs Ladder -- Acc-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(15), Dmg-I:50(15), Dmg-I:50(17), EndRdx-I:50(17)
Level 6: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(19), RechRdx-I:50(50)
Level 8: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(19), Zephyr-ResKB:50(21)
Level 12: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Numna-Heal:50(21), Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(23), RgnTis-Regen+:30(23)
Level 16: Taunt -- Zinger-Dam%:50(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rng:50(45), Zinger-Acc/Rchg:50(46), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(46), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg:50(46), Zinger-Taunt:50(48)
Level 18: Phalanx Fighting -- Ksmt-ToHit+:30(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod/Acc:50(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:50(25), EndMod-I:50(25)
Level 22: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(27), Zephyr-ResKB:50(27)
Level 24: True Grit -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A), ResDam-I:50(29), Heal-I:50(29), Heal-I:50(31), Heal-I:50(31), ResDam-I:50(43)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- HO:Nucle(A), Dmg-I:50(31), Dmg-I:50(33), EndRdx-I:50(33), RechRdx-I:50(33), RechRdx-I:50(34)
Level 28: Thunder Strike -- Acc-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(36), EndRdx-I:50(36), Zinger-Dam%:50(36)
Level 30: Chain Induction -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg:35(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx:35(37), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg:35(37), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(37), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:50(39), P'Shift-EndMod:50(39)
Level 32: Boxing -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 35: Tough -- EndRdx-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(40), ResDam-I:50(40)
Level 38: Weave -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(39), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(40)
Level 41: Lightning Rod -- HO:Nucle(A), Dmg-I:50(42), Dmg-I:50(42), EndRdx-I:50(42), RechRdx-I:50(43), RechRdx-I:50(43)
Level 44: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(45), RechRdx-I:50(45)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(48), Heal-I:50(48)
Level 49: Grant Cover -- EndRdx-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(50), DefBuff-I:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

• 5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
• 5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
• 5% DamageBuff(Fire)
• 5% DamageBuff(Cold)
• 5% DamageBuff(Energy)
• 5% DamageBuff(Negative)
• 5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
• 5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
• 9.88% Defense(Smashing)
• 9.88% Defense(Lethal)
• 6.13% Defense(Fire)
• 6.13% Defense(Cold)
• 6.13% Defense(Energy)
• 6.13% Defense(Negative)
• 3% Defense(Psionic)
• 9.25% Defense(Melee)
• 9.25% Defense(Ranged)
• 9.25% Defense(AoE)
• 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 5% FlySpeed
• 70.3 HP (3.75%) HitPoints
• 5% JumpHeight
• 5% JumpSpeed
• Knockback (Mag -8)
• Knockup (Mag -8)
• MezResist(Held) 2.75%
• MezResist(Immobilize) 4.95%
• MezResist(Terrorized) 2.75%
• 22% (1.72 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 5% RunSpeed

• MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
• 28.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
• 2.5% DamageBuff(All)
• MezResist(Held) 2.75%
• 3.75% Defense(Melee), 1.88% Defense(Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Smashing)

• 3.13% Defense(Ranged), 1.56% Defense(Energy), 1.56% Defense(Negative)
• 3.13% Defense(AoE), 1.56% Defense(Fire), 1.56% Defense(Cold)
• Knockback Protection (Mag -4)

• 12% (0.94 HP/sec) Regeneration

• MezResist(Terrorized) 2.75%
• 10% (0.78 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 2.5% DamageBuff(All)
• 3.13% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.56% Defense(Melee)

• 21.1 HP (1.13%) HitPoints

• 3.13% Defense(Ranged), 1.56% Defense(Energy), 1.56% Defense(Negative)
• 3.13% Defense(AoE), 1.56% Defense(Fire), 1.56% Defense(Cold)
• Knockback Protection (Mag -4)

• 3% Defense(All)

• MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
• 21.1 HP (1.13%) HitPoints
• 1.88% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.94% Defense(Melee)

• 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed

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Well unlike some I don't control where the team goes. I help those that may go with me or those that will work with me, as sometimes a controller or defender can contribute something good to the groups before I start (Not Immobs) but anyway, there are teams that can make me wonder "Why am I playing a Tanker?". If I am not going to be made use of, then why bother aye?