I....might answer if I could understand the question.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I mean IF they get other powersets to choose from. IF it happens. Sorry, should of stated it better.
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@Inconclusive
For EATs?
Not going to happen.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Ahh thought so..well sooner or later they will have to work on them again with all the powersets growing and what not.
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Why would they need to change it? The EATs work fine.
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No, not really.
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Originally Posted by Shuriken_BladeX
Ahh thought so..well sooner or later they will have to work on them again with all the powersets growing and what not.
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I don't mean changing or getting rid of anything. They are fine. I'm just talking about adding to them or something. So everyone is saying..as all the other ATs progress they won't add anything to the EATs? They will just stay the same with no Alt anything? They'll just be there?
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I'm not talking about changing them..I know they are fine. What I'm asking is if they add more to them. What do you guys think they will add. You seriously think they will add nothing to that AT at all?
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What *could* they add? Khelds only do a certain thing but perhaps alternate 'forms' you could choose from?
Arachnos soldiers only do a certain thing too. Adding anything to them means making up new stuff for the faction itself and they're already quite diverse.
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That sounds about right. The EATs are very specific, they were intended that way and I expect they'll stay that way.
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Originally Posted by Shuriken_BladeX
as all the other ATs progress they won't add anything to the EATs? They will just stay the same with no Alt anything?
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Maybe the arach start to add more to their ranks? Make different types. IDK. I'm just wondering...
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We're more likely to see new EATs than new sets for the old ones.
NPCs: A Single Method to Greatly Expand Bases
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The other EATs are very generic. They're a blank slate, a set of powers for you to do whatever you want to them. The EATs are specifically designed around and with a backstory explaining their powers and why they are what they are. |
Originally Posted by Shuriken_BladeX
I don't mean changing or getting rid of anything. They are fine. I'm just talking about adding to them or something. So everyone is saying..as all the other ATs progress they won't add anything to the EATs? They will just stay the same with no Alt anything? They'll just be there?
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Therefore, yes, they'll "just be there." Any new EATs will also "just be there."
But wouldn't it be cool to have more forms to pick from for Khelds? I remember someone from an old RP thread explaining that instead of the dwarf form, the form resembled a velociraptor with an oversized maw. And stomped and bit stuff rather than punch it.
....I guess that's customization, tho.
Maybe some power customization would be cool.
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No, with all the work that would be involved you may as well say it's new powers, for all intents and purposes. |
Originally Posted by Leo_G
But wouldn't it be cool to have more forms to pick from for Khelds? I remember someone from an old RP thread explaining that instead of the dwarf form, the form resembled a velociraptor with an oversized maw. And stomped and bit stuff rather than punch it.
....I guess that's customization, tho. |
You have to ask yourself, what would you rather have them do - take that time to create actual new powers and powersets and get them into the game, or try to wedge them in to two multiple-year-old ATs, shuffle powers around, add new restrictions (limit 2 forms plus human, for instance - there's already a slot crunch in a triform, after all) and so forth?
Seems like a lot of work for not much benefit - and for not many players, even with the upcoming "unlock at 20." (And then, of course, we'd have massive complaints from VEAT-side...)
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Animations aren't new powers though. Yet animations easily give old sets a new feel (running Ninja Run is a breath of fresh air to my MA/Shield, Kat/SR, Elec/Regen and DM/WP...and that's just what's between attacks). And since we have no shape shifting AT or set, giving multiple shapes to Khelds would basically do that without needing to klunk around some strange (probably gimmicky) mechanic to make it work.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
No, with all the work that would be involved you may as well say it's new powers, for all intents and purposes.
You have to ask yourself, what would you rather have them do - take that time to create actual new powers and powersets and get them into the game, or try to wedge them in to two multiple-year-old ATs, shuffle powers around, add new restrictions (limit 2 forms plus human, for instance - there's already a slot crunch in a triform, after all) and so forth? Seems like a lot of work for not much benefit - and for not many players, even with the upcoming "unlock at 20." (And then, of course, we'd have massive complaints from VEAT-side...) |
Besides, I'm of the opinion that the devs don't just 'abandon' their work. They improve it. That anything is 'multiple-year-old' has and never will have bearing on what the devs should do.
And I will ask myself: Would I rather the devs create new powers/sets? Or add to the old? My answer - *Both!* Because they can do that. Or have you forgotten that?
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... of course, Ninja Run doesn't change MA OR shield's animations, but is a completely different power itself, so how one's relevant to the other... |
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Animations aren't new powers though. Yet animations easily give old sets a new feel (running Ninja Run is a breath of fresh air to my MA/Shield,
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How much work would go into animations for existing powers? Yes, we're going into customization - but don't forget, it's more than *just* the powers themselves. You want a new form, it's going to be more work than (say) a different punch or kick for MA.
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| And since we have no shape shifting AT or set, giving multiple shapes to Khelds would basically do that without needing to klunk around some strange (probably gimmicky) mechanic to make it work. |
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| Besides, I'm of the opinion that the devs don't just 'abandon' their work. They improve it. That anything is 'multiple-year-old' has and never will have bearing on what the devs should do. |
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| And I will ask myself: Would I rather the devs create new powers/sets? Or add to the old? My answer - *Both!* Because they can do that. Or have you forgotten that? |
Besides, when they "Add to the old," what have they done? Changed times and values. Changed skeletal movement. There hasn't been a power that has - say - changed your arm into a cannon. And even that would, logically, be simpler than *creating a whole new form* and animating the various attacks and powers - or, more precisely, animating the *same old* attacks and powers on a new body.
"Ahh, but they just made alternate animations!" Yes, they did. For some sets, And only a few powers. And those animations don't change your body type. They don't require new artwork, like creation of a new form would. New animation definitions (and even that might be questioned at times.) Thus my statement that it would be closer to creating a new *set* of powers as far as effort.
Plus, where do the new forms stop? You have someone mentioning a velociraptor type form. Meh, not interested. Where's my gorilla, my Lovecraftian-inspired form that whaps things around with longer arm-tentacles, my flying space-Quetzlcoatl-like-form, my giant dragon, my... my... Does everyone get their own individual form? What ELSE gets put off while resources are tied up in this?
Yes, the devs do add to the old. But they don't just rush off and add stuff whenever it comes to mind. One project that would affect a very small number of users and eat up a lot of one or two departments time (art/animation, plus of course working it into the UI, testing that it actually works in all instances as it should, etc.) - oh, and don't forget adding these new forms to Kheld lore, as being an epic AT they're tied directly to it and yes, some folks (like me, see sig) would hold them accountable for it - I wouldn't hold my breath.
TLDR version:
"Would it be cool" - Yes. Though you still won't have people happy with the choices.
Would it be likely - I wouldn't hold my breath because of the work involved vs the benefit.
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Point: That an animation, that doesn't even change the animation of a set yet only changes the idle stance, can alter the feel of a set. That it doesn't have to be a new power to do that.| ... of course, Ninja Run doesn't change MA OR shield's animations, but is a completely different power itself, so how one's relevant to the other.. |
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| And I'd argue that yes, they do abandon ideas all the time. I don't just mean things like Avilians, which were initially how we were going to get wings (and which I'd still have loved to see.) |
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| I was asking you with all seriousness to consider the work vs how much benefit for how many people. If you feel like snarking, point it somewhere else. |
If I'm accused of snark, will you not hold yourself guilty too?
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| Plus, where do the new forms stop? You have someone mentioning a velociraptor type form. Meh, not interested. Where's my gorilla, my Lovecraftian-inspired form that whaps things around with longer arm-tentacles, my flying space-Quetzlcoatl-like-form, my giant dragon, my... my... Does everyone get their own individual form? What ELSE gets put off while resources are tied up in this? |
Point: If the devs can decide what alternate customizations to add to some sets, they can do the same to future sets to alleviate that problem.
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"Would it be cool" - Yes. Though you still won't have people happy with the choices. Would it be likely - I wouldn't hold my breath because of the work involved vs the benefit. |
If not animation..I was thinking of new powersets but you said that's not happening. I still don't see why...I'm pretty sure whenever an AT gets a new powerset almost EVERYONE tries it out atleast once. Yeah I know why they are epic but they are an AT that will go bare and sit there. It makes no sense to me to just leave an AT alone without adding anything to it. How can we know the Devs won't add a new backstory as well as a powerset to go along with the peacebringers and Ws? I just don't get the point of them staying the same forever without updating them atleast once.
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Because people just seem incapable of getting into their minds this simple fact;
The Devs meaning of 'Epic' is in reference to storyline. 'Epic Plot', not 'Epic power'. The reason the EATs will not get changed is because so much of what they are is tied heavily into canon. Even power colour, although I heavily disagree on that part. After all, for an energy being, say, I see no reason why they cant be different colours, but others seem to disagree. *shrug*
Either way, EATs already have WAY more power choices than any other one AT, so much so that you can potentially have near infinite ammounts of choice with them, so much so that you are actualyl running out of slots by the time you get to 50.
If theres one thing I'd love to see it would be the choice to 'trade in' a power for, say, three slots. That way you don't have to cram in some power you're not actually wanting to take, but cant skip a power as it is. I know I'd die for that on my new Warshade.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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So the devs would never add another story line? With something that forces the PBs and WS' to change or something allowing them to gain more powers. I don't see how adding another story line and powers from it would be a bad thing.
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Forcing ANYTHING is a really, terribly bad idea. So no, I don't see it happening. |
Originally Posted by Shuriken_BladeX
So the devs would never add another story line? With something that forces the PBs and WS' to change or something allowing them to gain more powers. I don't see how adding another story line and powers from it would be a bad thing.
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Also, the EATs can already do all the normal content too, as well as their unique story lines as it is.
As is, I see nothing wrong with the EATs, bar maybe the Kheldian shape-shifting taking too long to animate.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I don't see anything wrong with them either. It would suck to see them not grow with the other powersets. I like them. Even though most people don't. That's the only reason I suggested this.
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They will be updates sooner or later. (Not saying the really really need it) But if they start to get alt powersets. What do you guys think they will be?
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