Caltrops versus Web 'Nade: Personally I would say Caltrops are the more generally useful power. Web 'Nade is excellent for Assault Rifle characters since you can use it to set up Ignite but it's less useful for other characters. However it is a decent debuff power so it's worth trying to fit it into the build for fighting EBs and AVs but if I had to choose one I'd take Caltrops
Triage Beacon: To be honest I haven't been overly impressed with it either. As you say a lot fo the time teams move to fast to really beneift from it. It is nice in longer fights and solo though. Even on teams I find it can help make things a little smoother but it's definetly one of the less useful powers in the set.
Seeker Drones: These are absolutely wonderful. If you toss them off first they will take the alpha strike from a spawn which would almost be enough to make them worth it on it's own. Add in the fact that they apply a very substantial debuff and they are one of my top three powers from the set (Acid Mortar and FFG being the other two).
I agree, just eating that first attack from your foes makes a whole lot of difference with the seeker drones.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Re: Time bomb.
It's a toy power really. There's pretty much no situation in which you'll be more effective because you have it, though it might be fun to use sometimes.
Caltrops vs. Web Grenade: ...just one? I recommend both! Caltrops is a good area of denial power - great for some melee protection, and for covering a retreat. The Web grenade isn't as useful early on, but you're going to want to pick it up eventually. And get it slotted out. Without it, you will not be able to leverage your big Debuffs (Acid Morter and Poison Gas Trap) on the hard targets (Elite Bosses and Arch Villains.)
Triage Beacon - Useless without Single Origins or better, and of limited use even with them. This is only useful when your team is making a stand somewhere, or when dealing with powerful, mostly stationary enemies - EBs, AVs, and GMs. It's also good for things like the Invasions, but that's it, really. You can easily skip this power for a long time, or even drop it entirely.
Seeker Drones - The debuff in these isn't anything to get excited over. These really have only one use - to eat an Alpha Strike for you. Summon them in a group of enemies, and they will waste their initial attacks on the drones, before coming for you. Not something vital to the set, but I like them.
Siren's Song/Time Bomb/Dreadful Wail combo - meh. Time Bomb is... bad. Very Bad. Even worse for Defenders. And while that combo may look good in theory, you are forgetting that the Bomb has a high KB effect included. Time the Wail wrong, and you either miss with the Wail, or you miss with the Bomb.
Do yourself a favor. You want to play with explosives, take the Trip Mines. Just forget Time Bomb even is in the set.
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I disagree that the debuff is useless. Each one has a 6% to hit debuff and a 26% damage debuff. Factor that two seekers mean there's a good chance of getting the debuffs stacking and that's a pretty significant amount of mitigation, not to mention the ability to stun minions (and lts/bosses on very rare occasions).
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Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
Seeker Drones - The debuff in these isn't anything to get excited over. These really have only one use - to eat an Alpha Strike for you. Summon them in a group of enemies, and they will waste their initial attacks on the drones, before coming for you. Not something vital to the set, but I like them.
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In my experience, the Drones take too long to summon to use them in the middle of battle. They are also too fragile, often being destroyed before they can apply their debuff. |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I disagree that the debuff is useless. Each one has a 6% to hit debuff and a 26% damage debuff. Factor that two seekers mean there's a good chance of getting the debuffs stacking and that's a pretty significant amount of mitigation, not to mention the ability to stun minions (and lts/bosses on very rare occasions).
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Given that, I don't rely on the debuffs. I focus on what will happen - enemies will see and target the drones, so I can use that to absorb the initial attacks, while I stay out of LoS, behind a few of my other traps...
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Drones don't work the way you think they do. Drones never actually cast a debuff power on enemies, so it doesn't matter how they're destroyed. They purposefully run up to enemies and self destruct, and there's an area debuff that occurs once they're destroyed, regardless of what caused them to be destroyed.
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Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
They are also too fragile, often being destroyed before they can apply their debuff.
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Triage Beacon will be good for AV fights and any mission where you tend to be in the same spot for some time, ie "Stop 30 Fir Blog." I think it works better on my MM not only because I have all of my pets to take care of, but because you can't throw much of anything and not hit a EB/AV redside.
EDIT: I'll add any mission that has known ambushes(Lady Jane) will be good for Triage Beacon as well.
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I don't think I've every seen my drones killed. They always self destruct first. I do agree that it makes more sense to summon them before combat but I do it for the debuff as much as the alpha strike.
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Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
In my experience, the Drones take too long to summon to use them in the middle of battle. They are also too fragile, often being destroyed before they can apply their debuff.
Given that, I don't rely on the debuffs. I focus on what will happen - enemies will see and target the drones, so I can use that to absorb the initial attacks, while I stay out of LoS, behind a few of my other traps... |
You can add an absurd number of procs to caltrops. If you have a high(ish) recharge build, you can stack the buggers, and that's just plain vile to do against ... pretty much anything.
It's potentially a ridiculously high DPA attack if an enemy stays in it for the whole duration.
The problem is unless you're teamed with a controller they DON'T stay in it for the entire duration.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
The problem is unless you're teamed with a controller they DON'T stay in it for the entire duration.
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Unless you have an immobilize. If only they had included some kind of immobilize in the set...
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Yes, but that only immobilizes one enemy. I'm not saying it can't be done I just don't consider it to be a particularly useful tactic. Even if you use 3 damage procs and 3 damage IOs in the power the effective DPS is about 9.7. Plus you have to immobilize any targets to keep them there for more than a few seconds. I've got better uses for my slots thank you.
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Originally Posted by SDragon
Unless you have an immobilize. If only they had included some kind of immobilize in the set...
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qft|
Originally Posted by Garent
Drones don't work the way you think they do. Drones never actually cast a debuff power on enemies, so it doesn't matter how they're destroyed. They purposefully run up to enemies and self destruct, and there's an area debuff that occurs once they're destroyed, regardless of what caused them to be destroyed.
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their best usage IMHO is as an alpha.
drones -> acid mortar -> poison trap -> pewpew/freem
they agro to drones, then to mortar, then what is left will agro to your stunned tank by the time the team arrives to mop up the debuffed foes.
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Snixnix - Humanform Warshade
Various others.
@debtlover
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The only time it's useful is an AV/GM fight, since those are the only things that live long enough for the 45 second duration to matter. If something stays in caltrops for the whole duration and you're using two damage procs (there's a third, but it's a pvp enhancement) then it deals on average 364.5 damage. I believe the arcana-ized casting time of caltrops is 1.32 seconds, so that makes the DPA about 276. I think this puts it at the second highest DPA defender attack below tornado. If you have a person on your team with an immobilize as part of their attack chain (who could potentially be you because of electric fence), there's no reason not to do this.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Yes, but that only immobilizes one enemy. I'm not saying it can't be done I just don't consider it to be a particularly useful tactic. Even if you use 3 damage procs and 3 damage IOs in the power the effective DPS is about 9.7. Plus you have to immobilize any targets to keep them there for more than a few seconds. I've got better uses for my slots thank you.
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That's a fair point. I'd still rather have those slots elsewhere for the rest of the game though |
Originally Posted by Garent
The only time it's useful is an AV/GM fight, since those are the only things that live long enough for the 45 second duration to matter. If something stays in caltrops for the whole duration and you're using two damage procs (there's a third, but it's a pvp enhancement) then it deals on average 364.5 damage. I believe the arcana-ized casting time of caltrops is 1.32 seconds, so that makes the DPA about 276. I think this puts it at the second highest DPA defender attack below tornado. If you have a person on your team with an immobilize as part of their attack chain (who could potentially be you because of electric fence), there's no reason not to do this.
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To add, you have the ability to hold them as well.
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Originally Posted by SDragon
Unless you have an immobilize. If only they had included some kind of immobilize in the set...
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Traps/Sonic is my star character for this double xp weekend. She started at 19 and may hit 35 before the end of it all.
Caltrops vs Web Grenade - There's no clear winner here. Some swear by Caltrops, some hate them like poison. I started with Web Grenade, but as I go up in level and get more and more powers to play with I find that I usually have something a lot better to do with that 1.37 sec than throw a single target immobilize. I may respec into Caltrops just to try them at some point.
Triage Beacon - 300% Regen is noticeable, in my opinion, if you're looking for it, but it's no Instant Healing either. You can certainly faceplant in it's range. I plan to take it late in my build, something to throw down before an AV fight but really, if things get tight, it'll be the first to go.
Seeker Drones - The -Acc debuff stacks with your Force Field Generator for some serious protection, plus they'll eat your alpha for you. I wouldn't call this one skippable.
Siren's Song/Time Bomb/Dreadful Wail - It does sound like a fun way to see how much damage you can cut loose with in a small time frame, but really, once the ooh factor wears off, you're not going to want to take the time to set it up.
I saw this thread and thought you all might have a good answer for my problem.
I made a Traps/Sonic Defender last night and cranked it up to lv 17 before falling asleep. I found that it was mostly easy to use (and NASTY! It's a shame that Acid Mortar can't follow you, since it makes whatever mob you're fighting die extremely quickly.), but I get hit extremely hard every time I try and lay down Poison Trap in or near a mob, and pulling usually results in only one enemy getting the full effect. How do you all set Poison Trap when on a big team without getting killed?
Also, how much of a help is stealth or invisibility to a Traps defender?
Too many alts to list.
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I use a few different methods depending on the situation. If I'm on a team I normally just jump into the middle of a spawn and place the trap there relying on the distraction provided by my other teammates (and FFG) to keep me safe. Solo I generally wait until I'm surrounded and then place the poison trap. It's not as safe as pre-placing it but as you noted pre-placing it often results in only one or two enemies getting hit by the initial hold.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Grumpums
but I get hit extremely hard every time I try and lay down Poison Trap in or near a mob, and pulling usually results in only one enemy getting the full effect. How do you all set Poison Trap when on a big team without getting killed?
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| Also, how much of a help is stealth or invisibility to a Traps defender? |
If you have time and a handy corner available, you can corner pull, if they're inconveniently scattered.
You can use caltrops either before or after they arrive to control where you want them. You can also use web grenade to pin any early arrivals down, and also slow their rate of attack. If they come in bits and bobs, just webnade them in succession and then throw down trops underneath them. Toe-trap them with poison when you've got a quorum.
I find it extremely rude when they fail to be nicely grouped up when I'm solo. The nerve!
I think you guys are missing out on much of Traps ability to use these tools to defend a team.
For example, if a tanker is willing to just jump into a group of enemies, and use Taunt, a crafty trapster can follow that tanker in, bringing their FF generator with them.
A quick drop of Triage beacon gives the entire team a focal point for the battle. It allows you to assist your tanker, without forcing you to actively protect them at all.
An Acid Mortar, and then a carefully placed Caltrops to the rear of the enemy effectively box them in, and push them slowly toward the poison gas trap you've just put down.
Caltrops is amazingly useful --- I like to put a range SO in there actually, so I can push the caltrops to the rear of the enemy. Additionally, caltrops can act as damage mitigation, because enemies on top of caltrops spend most of their time trying in vain to get to the trapster. Wonderfully, Caltrops' indirect ability allows them to be safely used from behind corners, much the same way that Seeker Drones function.
Trapsters have tons of options
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Personally, I prefer picking up Web Grenade before Caltrops. In the early levels, plop Webnade on a shotgunner and you can just step back and have that foe be completely neutralized. 'Trops' longer recharge early on means it won't be used as often. Save it for post-SOs when you can drop its Rech to something better or respec into it later.|
Originally Posted by LadyJudgement
Caltrops/Web Grenade: Ive seen most build use caltrops for slowing and/or fear-mitigation; but I've been considering web grenade for the Immob and Rech Slow, and the purple IO chance for hold eventually. Is there a definitive one way or the other on these two?
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| Triage Beacon: Is there a lot of use for this in general/team play? Ive yet to try it slotted to the full 300% bonus but it seems most of the time while I like the idea of it ...it gets left behind and mostly unused due to teams moving fast or small groups. Is the regen noticible/decent at 300%? |
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| Seeker Drones: I've been using these for a bit and still can't decide if I really like them all that much or not. How useful are they at higher levels/slotted reasonably? |
A) They'll absorb the alpha. Summon them up near the target, they take the hits and you can sweep in.
B) HUGE debuff. 26.6% -DMG. EACH. And 6.67% -ToHit. Again, each.
C) Decent chance to Stun. 25% chance. Each.
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| The idea being to Sleep a spawn, place the timebomb, then Amplify(+PBU) and Dreadful Nuke. Resulting in the 20s -Res and damage being applied just before the timebomb explodes. Would this actually work the way Im thinking? Would it be overkill/pointless realtive to a Amp+PBU'd nuke anyway? |
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
Hey,
Recently been wondering about a Traps Defender and having hit the mid 20s have been fiddling with builds. On the whole there some good build advice on the forums here but I was more just looking for some 'functional' opinions on some powers if anyone has any input on the following...
Current Defender: Traps/Sonic (/Power)
- Caltrops/Web Grenade: Ive seen most build use caltrops for slowing and/or fear-mitigation; but I've been considering web grenade for the Immob and Rech Slow, and the purple IO chance for hold eventually. Is there a definitive one way or the other on these two?
- Triage Beacon: Is there a lot of use for this in general/team play? Ive yet to try it slotted to the full 300% bonus but it seems most of the time while I like the idea of it ...it gets left behind and mostly unused due to teams moving fast or small groups. Is the regen noticible/decent at 300%?
- Seeker Drones: I've been using these for a bit and still can't decide if I really like them all that much or not. How useful are they at higher levels/slotted reasonably?
- Siren's Song/Time Bomb/Dreadful Wail: I've been tossing the idea around in my head of having these powers for compound entertainment value. Though on teams I cant see using/setting it up.
The idea being to Sleep a spawn, place the timebomb, then Amplify(+PBU) and Dreadful Nuke. Resulting in the 20s -Res and damage being applied just before the timebomb explodes. Would this actually work the way Im thinking? Would it be overkill/pointless realtive to a Amp+PBU'd nuke anyway?
Thanks for any info you guys/gals have.