Earth/Arrow quick question

Never played a controller before but this set up seems interesting to me. There seems to be a lot of control with this set and some repeating powers such as quicksand and glue arrow. I know secondaries might be different however. Is this set workable or is this too much of the same power/control etc... There are no builds I could find is the main reason I'm asking.

Thanks in advance

Were you mentioning 2 travel powers for pvp? I do not pvp and would only take 2 travels if there was nothing else. Cool, thanks for the response because I cant wait to try something other than a blaster or scrapper.

I believe Local meant two power selections for your travel power (i.e. prereq and the travel power), not that you need to take two different travel powers.

I was thinking that but he said

"Another way to do it is to take Hasten/Super Speed for travel, freeing up one more slot for your last TA power."

threw me off

How are the APP for Controllers? Worth it forgoing a power or 2 to pick up another /Arrow power? I did that with my Dark/Regen Scrapper.

The APP are pretty good for controllers, I'd definitely take several powers from whatever pool you choose. It's not like scrappers where you'd often only want one power.

Each pool includes a ST blast and an AoE blast, both of which are usually good (hurl boulder a bit less so maybe as the animation is long) and which I would definitely take. Each pool also includes an armor, which may or may not be desirable for you depending on looks (they're all a bit obtrusive) - I don't think they're mandatory though. The last two powers vary, but generally are all at least decent. Fire gets an end recovery power and a self-rez, ice gets hibernate and an extra AoE, energy gets conserve power and power boost, psi gets world of confusion (which sucks) and a click mez protection (which is awesome), and stone gets an absolutely beastly ST melee attack and dull pain. In general, I could easily see taking 4 powers from each of the pools, except maybe psi if you don't want the armor.

So, in my opinion, it's probably not a good idea to skip the epics for more primary/secondary powers, but that's OK because you can pretty easily fit in all the good primary/secondary powers before the 40s anyway. As Local mentioned, to fit in a travel power and stamina, you'll need to skip three powers between your primary and seconday. If you want hasten, unless you're willing to use super speed you'd need to skip one more power.

Finding three powers to drop is pretty easy, in my opinion. Salt crystals is a no-brainer - it's a mediocre PBAoE sleep in an entirely ranged-focused combo that's already overflowing to the brim with AoE controls. Flash arrow is also a power which I haven't found much use for. It's tedious to use it on every spawn to try and stealth, and the debuff is very minor. It might be useful if you're worried about aggroing a second nearby spawn, but you're an earth/ta - just lock down that spawn too! Finally, stone prison is skippable since you're forced to take entangling arrow - it's a better power than entangling arrow, but I've found that entangling arrow is good enough to get the job done in most cases. That's the three you need, and that leaves plenty of room for APP powers.

I wouldn' skip any of the rest of the earth or TA powers - not poison gas, not glue, not quicksand, etc. On my earth/TA I've found uses for all of them, and frankly there isn't really anything else that would be especially important to take anyway. If you absolutely have to to skip one more power to take hasten, I would probably pick poison gas arrow, but I'd really be loathe to do it.

Earth/Trick Arrow is insanely fun and devastating. You can destroy whole spawns without taking an alpha!!

I skipped a few powers on mine, simply because of play style. Your mileage may very but here's what I skipped and Why.

AOE IMmob: This is a decent power but negates both OSA and EQ.

AOE Sleep: So much control not needed (IMO)

Yes I kept the Single Target Immob, it is great damage and a nice 5x decimation power.

I skipped a few powers from TA that many will likely go "WTF! were you thinking!!! But here they are and why.

Ice Arrow: Personal Preference here, don't really need the extra hold and animation time is too long for what it does to me.

Glue Arrow: I went with QS for the -def buff it gives and better mileage from the power.

Poison Arrow: I wish I could fit this in, the -dam can be handy for GMs and such, but on normal mobs I find stuff is locked down or dead so its really not as beneficial for me and I really don't miss it.

EMP Arrow: Again, this is one of those OMG I'm crazy to skip powers. But I have so much control at my disposal that I honestly feel this to be pretty wasted over all in my build. If I could squeeze it in but it requires a lot of slots to be truely great and i don't have that many to spare. If could work it in tho man would I. I might just drop the earth epic AOE stun for it.

I took Flash Arrow and 4x Accurate to hit debuff set for extra rech. Was a choice of AOE IMMOB, Glue ARROW, Flash Arrow. Easy enough choice for me, I will admit I don't get as much mileage out of it tho. But its really handy and stacks nicely with EQ's to hit debuff.

Now why did I skip those powers, for the following Support and Epic powers.

Hasten (I want VG, OSA, EQ up frequently)
Hover+Fly (Personal travel power choice)
Assault+Tactics+Manuevers (Now I don't really need the to hit from tactics but I really like the +per and love to hit buff sets, assault is a very nice damage boost for me and my team, and manuevers is great for more DEF ontop of all that -to hit and a 7.5% LOTG)

I went earth mastery for epic, and took all but the rock armor and the AOE stun. Seismic Smash is just awesome and helps my damage output as does the throw stone power. I have enough RECH without purples to make Earth's Embrace overlap for a decent amount of time. The damage from the AOE stun just didn't do it for me, nice when the stun kick in tho to stack with stalagmites.

I can take out a large mob spawn safely from behind a corner with the following chain.

Volcanic Gas, Quicksand, Disruption Arrow, Oil Slick Arrow. That drops a lot of jaws right there when people see the damage from OSA.

Again just how it works for me and my personal tastes. I am a leadership nut. You could cut out that whole pool and open 3 powers but even I did those 3 are light on slots, so whatever powers I took wouldn't be too strong IMO.

I have a 50 Earth/TA so I guess I'll weigh in here with a few points.

APPs-

APPs typically offer a Single target damage, aoe (or cone) damage, a shield, a utility power, and an extra utility or damage power.

In general for controllers I have a few little "rules" for APPs.

If the character is more single target oriented, I'll first go for single target APP attacks.
If the character is more aoe control oriented, I'll try for the aoe APP attacks. I'll usually take the shield, but in control heavy builds shields aren't really that necessary, in my opinion. None of my 50 earth trollers have their shields and to be honest, I'm not so sure I miss them. (and read below)
If I feel I have a "hole missing" I'll take the utility powers. i.e. since I don't have the shields on my earthies I do give them some layer of protection. Earth/Rad has earths embrace for when things get hairy and my earth/TA has hibernation for the same reason.

I also have a couple of "rules" for standard power pools.

Fitness and stamina- I don't think I have to say this, you all know my answer. (and if you don't, stamina is mandatory on all of my builds.....long live the blue bar!)
Hasten is almost always a "must have power" my one exception is my Earth/TA thanks to the redundancy of the sets (as well described in Locals post) I'm rarely ever "needing" a power to be recharged because I always have something that will do handy. BUT, that's not to say that it is a mistake to take hasten and it's also not to say that if I respecced the build (it is an old old build, by the way and one during pre IOs when I was on an acrobatics kick for -kb, if I ever respec, I'll likely go out of acro and right into hasten) BUT, thankfully earth/TA is easy on the slotting so pretty much every power is maxed at recharge.
Personally, I think leadership should be a "nothing else to pick" set and shouldn't take the place of a primary or secondary pick. (sorry Sagamemnon) Do I have it on a few controllers? Yes, but never at the expense of any control. If you have a defense shield I think you can make an argument for it, but I'm not so sure its a strong argument as controller maneuvers is so weak and you could easily get those bonuses with IOs. And while I'm at it I'm not a big fan of softcapping controllers, unless it's a farming build...and even then I think it's just a neat "trick" more than a neccessity.

As far as Earth/TA fire mastery is the obvious choice; I originally went power master for energy damage to light my oil slick, but was underwhelmed by the set. (Also its magic origin for the energy damage of apprentice charm) Surprisingly though, I ended up with Ice mastery. WHA???? Yep! I found with recharges being close enough, and a ton of control I could light OSA a very easy way and one where I didn't have to create a keybind or macro to aim at the oil slick. Volcanic gases is the perfect power to put under (or over) OSA. It "attacks" it on its own and is pretty reliable and I can make my Death Sandwich:

OSA--->QS--->Disrup arrow--->Acid arrow--->volcanic gases--->Ice storm = watchem die.

wow thanks for all the responses. I could not find anything otherwise. I started my character and took first 2 holds from Earth simply for damage in the early levels. I will definitely respec to tighten my build in the mid 20's.

And yes, for scrappers really only focused accuracy is work taking is the reason I asked about the APP. Good to know controllers have better choices.

Here's what I took (my Earth/TA is currently 47). I took Hasten because having VG and Emp Arrow up more often is worth more than having any other power available instead. The only trouble I run into with my Earth/TA is that sometimes the squishies are too good at finding that tiny bit of agro I haven't gotten around to stifling yet early in a fight and end up needing a heal that I don't have. Some people are too stupid to live I guess, otherwise Earth is one of only two sets I would recommend to go with TA because TA is honestly lacking in ways to keep a full group alive well, and Earth along with Illusion are the only two sets that can make up for that lack by being able to literally control every single mob you might ever pull. Actually Plant might work as too, Seeds of confusion and Creepers can fill the holes as well.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Level 48 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Earth Control
Secondary Power Set: Trick Arrow
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Fire Mastery

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Fossilize Empty(A)
Level 1: Entangling Arrow Empty(A)
Level 2: Stone Prison Empty(A)
Level 4: Stone Cages Empty(A)
Level 6: Quicksand Empty(A)
Level 8: Swift Empty(A)
Level 10: Ice Arrow Empty(A)
Level 12: Stalagmites Empty(A)
Level 14: Health Empty(A)
Level 16: Combat Jumping Empty(A)
Level 18: Earthquake Empty(A)
Level 20: Acid Arrow Empty(A)
Level 22: Stamina Empty(A)
Level 24: Super Jump Empty(A)
Level 26: Volcanic Gasses Empty(A)
Level 28: Disruption Arrow Empty(A)
Level 30: Hasten Empty(A)
Level 32: Animate Stone Empty(A)
Level 35: Oil Slick Arrow Empty(A)
Level 38: EMP Arrow Empty(A)
Level 41: Fire Ball Empty(A)
Level 44: Fire Shield Empty(A)
Level 47: Fire Blast Empty(A)
Level 49: Glue Arrow Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

Earth/TA is very different from anything else I've ever played, and it really can do some amazing, drop your jaw - I can't believe I just did that controlling. Just don't try to solo it before 33. It doesn't matter how many veteran attacks you have, and how many procs you slot, this set lacks for damage before the early 30s. If you do want to solo it, TA is great for places to put procs into, and so is Earth. Butters up the bad guys nicely so you never have to do too much to finish anyone off after it gets rolling.

again, thanks for the responses.

Just trying to get 1 or two controllers to mid 20's over the double xp weekend, otherwise I do not think I'll make it lol. Since I have you all here. My second choice for controller is going to be Ill/Rad. Any suggestions on that combination? I have read however, that it is a much better solo character? That is correct yes?

Again, thanks in advance

local man __ you are the man See you guide to ill/rad ....thanks again

I think he meant better than Earth/TA for solo and in that case the answer is yes, much better than Earth/TA to solo. The good thing about doing Earth/TA during double exp weekend though is that it's the one time you can be assured of getting a team easily and quickly, so you might look at holding off on the Ill/Rad for when you may have a harder time getting a team.

Well, made it from level 4 to level 20 tonight thanks to my duel wielding friends, lol no joke I was the only non defender/blaster the whole night. Having fun and once I get to level 22 I will respec out of the first Earth/ power into other things and tighten my build as I have slots to where I know I shouldn't have, ie. hurdle etc etc..

Thanks for the help, really enjoying it so far. I'll work on my ill/Rad controller this weekend for sure as well..

Torn as /Flash Arrow however...Said it was a skippable power. When I respec should I keep it or not. The -tohit seems to help or is it me?

The tohit debuff on flash arrow is a measly 5%. Even slotted up to about 8%, I wouldn't really call it a strong debuff. It would make somewhat of a difference, but not *that* much of one.

Meanwhile, if you want stamina and a travel power, you will need to skip 3 powers from your primary and seconday. Stone prison and salt crystals are two obvious choices, but what about the third? If you don't skip flash arrow, you'll end up needing to skip one of the other good TA or earth powers, or put off something until the 40s. Neither sounds like an especially desirable option to me.

Basically, flash arrow is a minor debuff. It does have some uses, but in my opinion it's not worth using up the power slot when you've got to fit in stamina and a travel power.

A couple points:

- whoever said they don't have EMP, please don't follow their example. EMP is one of the two main reasons to take TA (along with oil slick) - it's the crown jewel of your AoE control. 6-slot it and love it.

- PGA is something you can skip. For non-controllers, it can be useful, but for you, you should be holding stuff, not putting a small nerf on its damage. Yes, there is some benefit for fighting the big stuff, but other sets do this kind of debuffing better (Benumb for instance).

- Flash Arrow? Maybe. Sure, you can use it on big spawns to help your team a bit, but some of what I said regarding PGA applies - as you come into your powers, you'll be controlling big spawns, not knocking a few percent off their to hit. If you've got extra power slots, fine, but if there's something you really want, don't pass it up for this.

Finally, Earth isn't the undisputed king of AoE control - Mind also fights hard for that title!

I think with earth vs. mind aoe, a lot of it is which controls you feel most comfortable using - the two sets have such different kinds of aoe controls that it's a bit of an apples/oranges comparison, and I tend to be more comfortable with mind's one-shot, harder controls (I don't like funky controls too much - I don't use telekinesis). I certainly can see someone with a different temperament liking Earth much better.