Necro Angst

Does anyone else find that the zombies become intolerable to play level 27-30. God knows I cant make this one get to 32 and see the 2nd tier upgrade. So damn squishy and so damn impossible to order around with macros.

What's your secondary? Poison?

WARNING: I bold names.

Are you playing mostly on large teams? I would agree that necro minions don't survive particularly well on most large teams in the 27-32 range, especially when dealing with mobs that sling around a lot of AOEs. After you get to 32, their survival does pick up noticeably with their self-heals and the nifty controls the lich receives.

To help their survival on large teams, I've found that picking targets on the margins of battles and sending in the tier 1 and tier 2 minions against them keeps them upright longer at any level range, usually because of less problems with AOEs taking them out that way. I'll often send the zombies and grave knights in against a single target together, on teams and they usually take it down fairly quickly. Also, I consistently take and eventually slot up life drain, which gives me a better chance of survival when I've taken the tier 1 and tier 2 minions out of BG mode to have them attack something. Finally, I usually have my MM take alpha to get the battle started, ensuring that if AOEs are part of alpha to separate myself enough from my minions that the initial volley of AOEs doesn't hit them. Life drain can fix the damage from alpha if you're in BG mode, even on medium sized teams.

Still, my attitude to losing minions at any level tends to be "They're zombies, so they're disposable. I'll just summon more zombies."

As for macros, I seldom bother with them. I put the grave knights on aggressive and keep the zombies and lich on defensive follow (BG), both teamed and solo.

I find this way of using necro minions and staying safe (with life drain) allows me to concentrate more on using whatever my secondary is more effectively. I've brought 2 necros to lvl 50 (poison and storm) this way. Plus, 1 is now at lvl 46 (force fields), 1 is at lvl 26 (TA), and 1 is at lvl 27 (traps). More active minion management would probably squeeze more performance and survival out of them, but this way works well enough for my purposes.

Secondary is thermal. I pull with a vet staff, usually black wand, with a quick nemesis staff chaser so the target is more than half dead on arrival. Zombies chase all flyers, chase all runners, chase the damn skyraider teleporters. I hit goto/defense or follow/defense they act like they don't care until their current target is dead. If I hit follow/passive, I am dead before they switch back to defensive. I have been running on +1/+4, +1/+2 is too easy. I can extract, resummon fast enough before I am dead. I usually use combat tp to flee after all minions are dead to rebuild and hope I can break free of immobilize before the rest of the guys show up to gank me.

Not having a problem on my Necro/Thermal here. Might depend on playstyle.

What do you do? I prefer running into combat myself, its worked well on all my Necros except /TA.

26 is when I normally find Necro getting good. My standard tactic on most is to send in the Lich to take the alpha; send in the Grave Knights to melee range behind him, and leave the Zombies on Defensive/Follow most of the time.

If you're running Thermal and your henchmen are squishy, there just might be a build problem. Any chance you could post your build?

WARNING: I bold names.

I have difficulty getting the IO levels to download right. I hope this helps.


Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 48 Natural Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Necromancy
Secondary Power Set: Thermal Radiation
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Zombie Horde -- BriL'shp-Acc/Dmg(A), BriL'shp-Acc/EndRdx(3), BriL'shp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), BriL'shp-Acc(5), BriL'shp-Dmg(5)
Level 1: Warmth -- H'zdH-Heal/EndRdx(A), H'zdH-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(7), H'zdH-Heal/Rchg(7), Heal(19)
Level 2: Fire Shield -- ResDam(A), ResDam(9), ResDam(9)
Level 4: Cauterize -- RechRdx(A), Heal(11), Heal(11)
Level 6: Enchant Undead -- EndRdx(A)
Level 8: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 10: Plasma Shield -- ResDam(A), ResDam(13), ResDam(13)
Level 12: Grave Knight -- BriL'shp-Acc/Dmg(A), BriL'shp-Acc/EndRdx(15), BriL'shp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), BriL'shp-Acc(17), BriL'shp-Dmg(17)
Level 14: Teleport -- Range(A)
Level 16: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 18: Soul Extraction -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19), RechRdx-I(25), Acc-I(25)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 24: Power of the Phoenix -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 26: Lich -- SipInsght-ToHitDeb(A), SipInsght-Acc/ToHitDeb(27), SipInsght-Acc/Rchg(27), ToHitDeb(29), ToHitDeb(29)
Level 28: Forge -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Recall Friend -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Dark Empowerment -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Heat Exhaustion -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Melt Armor -- Empty(A)
Level 41: School of Sharks -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Shark Skin -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Spirit Shark Jaws -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Knockout Blow -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Dmg(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Jump(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx(A)
Level 1: Supremacy

You might have an endurance problem from what I'm seeing. Zombies aren't all sturdy even with shields, but looks like resummon/buff/shield could kill you.

The 3rd resist in your shields don't make a huge difference switch them for an end reduction. I find myself using cauterize quite a bit, not sure about your playstyle. But it needs end reduction as well.

Reslot your Lich, yes his -tohit is awesome. But at this level every little bit of damage helps more. Plus you don't really have a lot of -tohit or +def for him to synergy with in your build. He would be better served slotted with pet sets and one -tohit IO.

Finally try to get yourself a +end proc for your stamina. I know its hard at low levels, but well worth it. I find leaving bids on the market for pet +res +def while I'm lvling up to be a good idea, do that.

I hope this helps.

I've found that buffing up accuracy and damage is very good for zombies and grave knights. Three accuracy and three damage works well for zombies. Two accuracy and three damage and a heal or achilles -res proc in the sixth slot works well for grave knights. The set bonuses you are getting with how you slot your tier 1 and tier 2 minions are probably not making up for the lost damage.

If you can get one or both +10% pet resistance procs into soul extraction, that will really help minion survival.

Finally, the previous poster's point about endurance seems accurate to me. I'd suggest taking that third slot out of stamina and putting it into enchant undead or dark empowerment; having two endurance reduction slots in each of those powers really helps for re-summoning. An end reducer in cauterize and one in each shield would also really help you manage endurance better.

One suggestion is to keep your shields at 1 or 2 slots for the moment, with a single endurance reduction SO in each shield no matter how many slots you put into them. Those extra slots can be thrown into heals and/or enchant undead / dark empowerment.

If you do some calculations, you'll probably see that the 3.3% or thereabouts of extra resistance for each extra SO into resistances doesn't come close to how well you can improve minion survival by having stronger, quicker recharging heals and better endurance management. Those extra resistance bonuses are particularly minimal in how they help your zombies, given their low base hit points. After your heals are well slotted up and you have endurance management under control, then slotting up resistance shields is a helpful step to take.

On a related note, I don't bother with upgrades until shields / bubbles are up, on minions that are being summoned in the middle of a battle. Its nice to have pets upgraded, but having them upright and keeping them upright takes priority; that means using heals and shields, for a thermal. I'll only upgrade mid-battle if I believe I won't soon after end up flooring my MM's endurance and, ipso facto, his or her ability to keep minions upright.