Sonic Blast is the best secondary numerically, especially solo, because all the -Res really adds up to bring your damage up to par. It also provides a good deal of safety through the quick recharging mass sleep of Siren's Song.
Sonic Resonance is in my opinion the worse solo primary - you have 5 powers that require an ally, and of the remaining four three are quite situational. Some would argue Empathy is worse, thats a point for debate I guess.
Solo-ing a Sonic/Sonic is doable, because Sonic Blast is that good, but its going to be one of the poorer Defender combos for solo work even so.
Sonic Resonance is a great set for assisting a team with minimal attention on your part - fire up Sonic Dispersion and Disruption Field, ring the team every four minutes and blast in between, with the occasional Sonic Siphon or Liquefy for hard targets or big fights. Betwee Howl and Disruption you're stacking 50% -Res on everything, and an extra 50%+ on selected targets using Sonic Siphon and your blasts. Teams will love you for this.
Or would be a Rad/Sonic be better? as a debuff monster? o.o
Or would Rad/Rad be better than Rad/Sonic? >_>
Quote:
Well, I have a Sonic/Sonic Defender, so I can tell you how it plays.|
Originally Posted by Catastros
Or would be a Rad/Sonic be better? as a debuff monster? o.o
Or would Rad/Rad be better than Rad/Sonic? >_> |
You can have 45% resistance to Smash/Lethal damage if you have toughness from the fighting pool running, and 23% to everything else.
Those in your Sonic Bubble, will gain 23% to all damage types in resistance as well.That is if you 3 slot SOs of damager resistance in it.Then you can pump up everyone with 45% damage resistance to everything with 2 other personal sonic armor powers in the primary set.
If the person you armor up stays in your sonic bubble, youll grant them 68% resistance to all damage.Thats for blasters, and others that dont have Armor sets.Yup, that Blaster has 68% damage resistance.
Then to top it all off, if you armor up that Super Reflexes Scrapper, and stay near him to keep him in your bubble, he gets the 68% damage resistance as well as continues to use his high Def%'s.You effectivly just made that Scrapper, a high damage dealing, fast moving, Granite Tanker.
Say youv got a Electric Armor, or Invln, or Fire Armor on the Team....You'll cap all there resistances.No questions asked.
You hear about how a Soft-Capped character only takes 10% of the incomming damage because of how much it dodges.Heres something else to consider.When you Cap Resistance, you take only 10% of the incomming damage, just like that Soft Capped player, because you Cap at 90% for a Tanker, and Brutes Resistance.
Now, moving on.....
You can set up a Dissruption Field around the Tanker, and when he jumps in to the mob, he uses your field thats around him, to drop the mobs damage resistance by 30%, then if you take howl, and cone that same mob, you drop it another 20% for a total of 50% damage resistance reduction.
A attack that would normally do 50 damage, now does 75, one that does 100 damage now does 150, and that 300 damage KO blow, now does 450.....see the pattern?
Id seriously stay away from taking Rad Blasts with Sonic Primary.
The choice on what your more comfortable with is yours, but my Sonic/Sonic Defender is a force to be reckoned with on a team, and does rather well solo.
Quote:
Eh, should i take the Sonic bubble, or Sonic siphon at level 1? o.o
|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Well, I have a Sonic/Sonic Defender, so I can tell you how it plays.
You can have 45% resistance to Smash/Lethal damage if you have toughness from the fighting pool running, and 23% to everything else. Those in your Sonic Bubble, will gain 23% to all damage types in resistance as well.That is if you 3 slot SOs of damager resistance in it.Then you can pump up everyone with 45% damage resistance to everything with 2 other personal sonic armor powers in the primary set. If the person you armor up stays in your sonic bubble, youll grant them 68% resistance to all damage.Thats for blasters, and others that dont have Armor sets.Yup, that Blaster has 68% damage resistance. Then to top it all off, if you armor up that Super Reflexes Scrapper, and stay near him to keep him in your bubble, he gets the 68% damage resistance as well as continues to use his high Def%'s.You effectivly just made that Scrapper, a high damage dealing, fast moving, Granite Tanker. Say youv got a Electric Armor, or Invln, or Fire Armor on the Team....You'll cap all there resistances.No questions asked. You hear about how a Soft-Capped character only takes 10% of the incomming damage because of how much it dodges.Heres something else to consider.When you Cap Resistance, you take only 10% of the incomming damage, just like that Soft Capped player, because you Cap at 90% for a Tanker, and Brutes Resistance. Now, moving on..... You can set up a Dissruption Field around the Tanker, and when he jumps in to the mob, he uses your field thats around him, to drop the mobs damage resistance by 30%, then if you take howl, and cone that same mob, you drop it another 20% for a total of 50% damage resistance reduction. A attack that would normally do 50 damage, now does 75, one that does 100 damage now does 150, and that 300 damage KO blow, now does 450.....see the pattern? Id seriously stay away from taking Rad Blasts with Sonic Primary. The choice on what your more comfortable with is yours, but my Sonic/Sonic Defender is a force to be reckoned with on a team, and does rather well solo. |
Quote:
The sonic bubble you should take reguardless.Sonic Siphon, is your call, itll help solo later in the game when you deal more damage, but early game you dont see huge diffrences, and for being a ST debuff, it takes alot of Endurance, so you could skip it till later levels, or skip it all together.
|
Originally Posted by Catastros
Eh, should i take the Sonic bubble, or Sonic siphon at level 1? o.o
|
A Sonic Defender adds about 56% Resistance to the team, not 68%.
15% from Sonic Dispersion, 20% from the ally shields is 35% base total. Mutliply by 1.6 for your enhancements and you get 56%.
It still stacks really well for characters who already have resistance, like Fire_Minded says.
I'd grab Sonic Barrier first.
Sonic Siphon doesn't do a whole heap solo I found - against anything less than a boss it means you defeat the targetted enemy with 1 less attack, but you had to spend animation time and end to fire it off, so... you kind of break even for much of typical PvE gameplay. Against AVs and EBs its well worth it though.
Rad/Sonic is a really effective and popular choice, and great for solo and team play.
Sonic/Rad is very weak solo because Rad Blast offers very little in the way of damage mitigation.
Quote:
My bad on the Modifier number there, 56% it is, but its still a hefty boost.|
Originally Posted by DrMike2000
A Sonic Defender adds about 56% Resistance to the team, not 68%.
15% from Sonic Dispersion, 20% from the ally shields is 35% base total. Mutliply by 1.6 for your enhancements and you get 56%. It still stacks really well for characters who already have resistance, like Fire_Minded says. I'd grab Sonic Barrier first. Sonic Siphon doesn't do a whole heap solo I found - against anything less than a boss it means you defeat the targetted enemy with 1 less attack, but you had to spend animation time and end to fire it off, so... you kind of break even for much of typical PvE gameplay. Against AVs and EBs its well worth it though. Rad/Sonic is a really effective and popular choice, and great for solo and team play. Sonic/Rad is very weak solo because Rad Blast offers very little in the way of damage mitigation. |
Im not sure where I got 68% from, espcially when I wrote down 56% on a previous post talking about it before.
Could you post your sonic/sonic build? so i'd know what to take, etc.. never really played a sonic/sonic before. o.o
Yeah, its not like anyone would notice the difference between 56% and 68% in gameplay. You're still turning suishies into Scrappers, Scrappers into Tanks, and Tanks into Adamantium-plated gods.
Having a Sonic Defender on the team makes everyone incredibly tough, although you'll really notice when the psychic damage comes in, say fighting a Lost boss.
One other point worth making about Sonic Resonance is that its a bit of an End pig. You get Disruption Field and Sonic Dispersion pretty early, before Stamina. Both are incredibly useful powers and should be run on a team, but they'll leave you with little endurance for actual blasting. Even so, those two powers and the ally shields mean you're more than pulling your weight on a team in Steel Canyon.
Quote:
What would you personally roll, Rad/Sonic or Sonic/Sonic?|
Originally Posted by DrMike2000
A Sonic Defender adds about 56% Resistance to the team, not 68%.
15% from Sonic Dispersion, 20% from the ally shields is 35% base total. Mutliply by 1.6 for your enhancements and you get 56%. It still stacks really well for characters who already have resistance, like Fire_Minded says. I'd grab Sonic Barrier first. Sonic Siphon doesn't do a whole heap solo I found - against anything less than a boss it means you defeat the targetted enemy with 1 less attack, but you had to spend animation time and end to fire it off, so... you kind of break even for much of typical PvE gameplay. Against AVs and EBs its well worth it though. Rad/Sonic is a really effective and popular choice, and great for solo and team play. Sonic/Rad is very weak solo because Rad Blast offers very little in the way of damage mitigation. |
I'm more of a team player, but will solo if i need to. o:
Personally, I'd roll Sonic/Sonic.
It's a lot less powerful, but its very friendly towards an "offender" style of play in that you only need to play attention to your team every 4 minutes to rebubble them.
Radiation Emission is signing up for a career of watching the enemy who you've set your toggles on, and micro-managing the debuff situation all the time to make sure your team is safe. Its a really powerful set, but I'm not a fan of it on Defenders. I'v eplayed it on Controllers who can stop the anchor running off.
That's my personal preference for what I'd play. Its also my preference for who I'd rather team with. I'm always happy to see a Sonic Defender rock up when I'm teaming.
Quote:
My 50 Sonic/Sonic halves incoming damage and doubles outgoing damage. What's not to love? |
Originally Posted by Catastros
How would a sonic/sonic be in a team? would it also be.. ok to solo with a sonic/sonic because of its -res? o.o
|
His motto is, "I turn heroes into tankers. I turn tankers into gods."
I will not rest until we have in-game throwable pies!
Something else to consider about the Sonic primary: It doesn't help THAT much, by itself, but it stacks very nicely with anything else on the team.
I came to Sonic from 100+ levels of Force Field defender. If you're playing FF, nobody touches the team, ever. However, if anyone else on the team has +Defense powers there's a lot of redundancy. Sonic "halves incoming damage", but Force Fields drops it to 10% of original. No more and no less, even if you've got Force Fields, Cold shields, and acc debuffs and a Super Reflexes scrapper.
Almost NOBODY is capped on resistance, ever, so there's always room for Sonic rings. And more damage is always, always appreciated.
As for soloing? I don't know if it's the WORST, as Dr. Mike suggests, but it's close enough to worst that I won't argue. It's bad.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Quote:
What do you mean by "Force Fields drops it to 10% of original"?|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
Something else to consider about the Sonic primary: It doesn't help THAT much, by itself, but it stacks very nicely with anything else on the team.
I came to Sonic from 100+ levels of Force Field defender. If you're playing FF, nobody touches the team, ever. However, if anyone else on the team has +Defense powers there's a lot of redundancy. Sonic "halves incoming damage", but Force Fields drops it to 10% of original. No more and no less, even if you've got Force Fields, Cold shields, and acc debuffs and a Super Reflexes scrapper. Almost NOBODY is capped on resistance, ever, so there's always room for Sonic rings. And more damage is always, always appreciated. As for soloing? I don't know if it's the WORST, as Dr. Mike suggests, but it's close enough to worst that I won't argue. It's bad. |
Like if a villain does 100 damage, it'd do 10 damage on a hero fully bubble'd?
And if the hero has sonic bubbles, the villain would do 50 damage instead? o.o
sonic/sonic is one of the best defenders I can bring to team.
Solo play its just nothing special
rad/sonic is certainly more solable, and arguably 'better' on a team.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Quote:
Bump, i'd like to answer to this question, before i make up my mind Dx
|
Originally Posted by Catastros
What do you mean by "Force Fields drops it to 10% of original"?
Like if a villain does 100 damage, it'd do 10 damage on a hero fully bubble'd? And if the hero has sonic bubbles, the villain would do 50 damage instead? o.o |
You normally have a 50% chance of being hit, subject to some modifiers.
A Force Fielder can give everyone else on the team 45% Defence just using SO enhancements and Manouvers from Leadership, thus dropping this chance to 5%, subject to the same modifiers. You can be doing this at level 22.
So, having a single FF-er on a team full of squishies (Blasters, Controllers and Defenders) or Resistance based melee-ers will mean they take only 10% of the incoming damage they would otherwise.
If the enemy does 100 damage per hit, you still take 100 damage per hit, but you get hit ten times less often with the Force Fielder around, so the overall incoming damage is 10% less than what it was.
If you replace the FF-er with a Sonic Resonance Defender, a team will be taking 56% less damage, ie 44% will get through.
So yes, Force Fields protect the team much much better than Sonics do. But sonic also add a big chunk of Res debuff to the enemy, making you defeat them faster.
FF is the ultimate Defence set. Sonic is a balanced Defence-Offence set.
Quote:
What's the best secondary to use with FF/?
|
Originally Posted by DrMike2000
You normally have a 50% chance of being hit, subject to some modifiers.
A Force Fielder can give everyone else on the team 45% Defence just using SO enhancements and Manouvers from Leadership, thus dropping this chance to 5%, subject to the same modifiers. You can be doing this at level 22. So, having a single FF-er on a team full of squishies (Blasters, Controllers and Defenders) or Resistance based melee-ers will mean they take only 10% of the incoming damage they would otherwise. If the enemy does 100 damage per hit, you still take 100 damage per hit, but you get hit ten times less often with the Force Fielder around, so the overall incoming damage is 10% less than what it was. If you replace the FF-er with a Sonic Resonance Defender, a team will be taking 56% less damage, ie 44% will get through. So yes, Force Fields protect the team much much better than Sonics do. But sonic also add a big chunk of Res debuff to the enemy, making you defeat them faster. FF is the ultimate Defence set. Sonic is a balanced Defence-Offence set. |
Sonic Blast.
Sonic Blast is generally the best secondary to use with just about anything. It has good controls, the AoE damage is a bit weak but not terrible, but the -20% Res per blast really adds up on a Defender. It provides more -Res than any Defender primary. You could say its so good its broken. This feature alone makes the set the king of Defender blast sets.
FF particularly benefits, because it doesn't have any means of boosting damage on its own, so FF/Sonic makes a very nice pairing.
(They also look kind of similar if you ask me, both being colourless and a bit telekinetic in appearance, but thats just my opinion.)
I would add that Sonic/Sonic is a great great team defender. If you have the option, choosing a kinetic defender or a Forcefield, (or Cold) defender for a teammate just about pushes you totally to the delirious level. Sonic blast's howl power is almost a primary power in strength wielded by a Sonic defender, stacking the -resistance.
I also agree that Sonic Siphon is useful later in the sonic's career. It affords more debuff on a Crey tank than an Eidelon in my opinion. It is a wicked single target debuff.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
It looks like your trying to make the best Defender Possible, and if thats your goal, which seems to be what it is from what im reading from you, then your going about it the wrong way.
Theres plenty of other Primaries that will offer you greater achivements in later levels of the game.
My advice to you is, make it, play it, and if you dont like it, make another.
Quote:
Best is a subjective term.|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
It looks like your trying to make the best Defender Possible, and if thats your goal, which seems to be what it is from what im reading from you, then your going about it the wrong way.
Theres plenty of other Primaries that will offer you greater achivements in later levels of the game. My advice to you is, make it, play it, and if you dont like it, make another. |
Best buffer could be argued to be kinetic or empath.
Best controlling defender could be dark.
Forcefields is the BEST at defense.
sonic is the Best at maximizing resistance buff and very very good at resistance debuff.
Cold is more all-around.
Radiation is all around with a good nod to debuffing AV/GM level targets.
Trick Arrow is a great all-around debuffer, but alas no team buffs.
I do agree with your altoholic assessment.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Fire_Minded's right.
To try and quantify any statements about "the best" - CoH is a mature game and powersets are pretty well balanced against each other by now.
Even the buff/debuff Defender primaries are balanced, and they are easily the most diverse group of sets in the game.
I'll stick my neck out and say the biggest outliers for Defenders sets (primary and secondary) are Sonic Blast, which is maybe 20% better than average at most, and Trick Arrows, which is maybe 20% weaker than average at worst estimate.
Different sets do different things (eg Force Fields is out and out best at protecting a team, Cold is really good vs Avs) but overall they're very well balanced by now.
You'd be hard put to really notice this level of performance difference in game. If you choose something less than optimal you're still going to have a good time, rather than spend 50 levels kicking yourself for choosing that powerset.
How would a sonic/sonic be in a team? would it also be.. ok to solo with a sonic/sonic because of its -res? o.o