It's not just the recharge, it's the dpa. Check the dpa of katana vs the dpa of broadsword. I believe high lvl builds with the recharge to run the best chains will get more damage out of the katana (also because more frequent attacks give more chance for procs to fire).
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Yep, the best end game Katana chains do more DPS than the best Broad Sword equivalents, and with less recharge required. And Katana is particularly good at taking advantage of the Achilles' Heel proc due to the fast-activating and fast-recharging Gambler's Cut. Overall it isn't such a huge difference as to avoid Broad Sword if you prefer the SMASH (I have two at 50), but it's a difference. Similarly, Katana puts out a little better AoE damage, with both primaries' PBAoEs recharging at the same rate, but Katana's putting out slightly more damage in a much shorter activation. And while Flashing Steel does less damage than Slice, it still achieves better DPA (damage per Arcanatime, the measurement that tends to mean the most in top end builds).
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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Interesting, thanks for the insight. I'll have to look into it when I get high enough to bother really worrying about performance.
I actually have a katana that I prefer, as I like the style and animations for the set. I just didn't want to shoot myself in the foot if BS was a wide margin better... since I do like it as well, for a different looking character.
You're fine then. Neither primary is shooting yourself in the foot. Katana is generally slightly better, but not enough that you'd really notice unless you were timing yourself doing the same things, or running herostats, that kind of thing. For me at least, the seat of the pants experience is that both are equally capable. The big difference for me is in how they feel, not how they perform, and that's despite me being a serious min/maxer.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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Yea, Katana is able to keep up due to low activation time.
I would say the biggest actual difference between the two are style (eastern vs western swordplay) and the ability to use /shield.
"Fascinating. I'm not bored at all, I swear." -Kikuchiyo
I still want Katana/Shield Defense. 
(But only for the numbers.)
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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Not too mention Kat/ looks cooler.
BS/ looks ok and all, even tho u seem to swing it like a battle axe. I just wish BAB would one day replace that silly looking animation for Disembowel.
(<---- likes BS/ and Kat/ but is just poking harmless fun)
Hush now! I loves me some Disembowel! 
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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The kat animations are very nice. I've actually tossed some Apocalyptica in the playlist and am getting fired up to swing some steel just now. They seem to go quite well together. |
Originally Posted by Wuigly Squigly
Not too mention Kat/ looks cooler.
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Werner, I've seen your name touted around as one of the "go to guys" for regen. Do you have any guides on how to be a god with that kinda build? Looking for something low to medium income (rerolled on a new server, willing to put some effort into doing it right but not looking for like billion inf builds or anything).
The only thing I have approaching a guide is this:
“There are definitely other approaches, but here's what I'd consider a basic plan for the Regeneration secondary using SOs or common IOs:As far as set IOs go, you're looking for recharge, recharge, more recharge, and then defense. High recharge is quite expensive, so you may be limited there. Buy as much as you can afford. For Katana, you want to make sure that you hit the magic 45% defense with Divine Avalanche, probably double-stacked. If you can, slot it purely as an attack, and get the other 15% defense from pool powers and set bonuses. Grab yourself a Steadfast Protection unique, and a Kismet unique while you're at it. You're shooting for a chain of Divine Avalanche -> Gambler's Cut -> Golden Dragonfly -> Gambler's Cut -> Divine Avalanche -> Gambler's Cut -> Soaring Dragon -> Gambler's Cut. Gambler's Cut needs to recharge in 1.58 seconds for that, which is about +90% recharge enhancement. Should be simple enough. Put an Achilles' Heel proc in Gambler's Cut. Even though it's a buff, use Dull Pain reactively, not proactively. Your proactive protection is Moment of Glory and/or Instant Healing. While you want your clicks available as often as possible, in a sense, you want to use them as little as possible. Don't click Reconstruction if waiting a few seconds will heal you to full. Don't click Dull Pain if Reconstruction is enough to cover it. That way, you're more likely to have the good clicks available when you really need them. I'm sure there's a ton more, but I just woke up, and my brain isn't quite engaged yet.
- Fast Healing at 1, 3 heals
- Reconstruction nice and early, 3 heals, 3 recharges
- Quick Recovery nice and early, 1 endurance modifier at first, add 1 or 2 more as necessary
- Dull Pain when or shortly after when available, as there is a lot to squeeze in at that level, 3 heals, 3 recharges
- Integration at 16, 3 heals, possibly 1 endurance reducer
- Resilience when and if you can work it in, 1 resist
- Instant Healing when or shortly after when available, 1-3 recharges, no heals unless you're swimming in slots
- Skip Revive
- Moment of Glory when or shortly after when available, 3 recharges
- Hasten when convenient, 3 recharges
- Health when convenient, 3 heals
- Tough when convenient, 3 resists, 1 endurance reducer
- Stamina if and when you start having endurance trouble, which may not be until 30 or later, 1 endurance modifier at first, add 1 or 2 more as necessary"
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
The overview is very much appreciated. It has let me know I am on the right track as it is pretty close to the build I am using now. The main difference is that I have not taken Dull Pain. Right now I am just keeping it low impact leveling and not running tfs or AV's or anything of the sort so I really don't feel like I need it. For this kind of play I tend to prefer more passives and less "Oh S&*$" buttons. For high impact play, pvp and soloing avs and such, iwinbuttons are king... but not for what I'm doing now.
A thousand thanks.
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So why exactly are you playing */Regen then?
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Originally Posted by Humility
The overview is very much appreciated. It has let me know I am on the right track as it is pretty close to the build I am using now. The main difference is that I have not taken Dull Pain. Right now I am just keeping it low impact leveling and not running tfs or AV's or anything of the sort so I really don't feel like I need it. For this kind of play I tend to prefer more passives and less "Oh S&*$" buttons. For high impact play, pvp and soloing avs and such, iwinbuttons are king... but not for what I'm doing now.
A thousand thanks. |
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Because I have a 50 /WP brute? Because I enjoy a set with high passive health regen? Because I enjoy a set with Quick Recovery? Because I enjoy a set with a handy early self heal? Because I can respec/use my second set for a build more suited to high impact play after I'm finished leveling?|
Originally Posted by Umbral
So why exactly are you playing */Regen then?
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There's more to /regen than Dull pain.
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This is true only if , when you team, you aren't the type to...|
Originally Posted by Humility
Because I have a 50 /WP brute? Because I enjoy a set with high passive health regen? Because I enjoy a set with Quick Recovery? Because I enjoy a set with a handy early self heal? Because I can respec/use my second set for a build more suited to high impact play after I'm finished leveling?
There's more to /regen than Dull pain. |
1) Complain about constantly being faceplanted and wondering why it's happening.
2) Leave the team in a lurch, because you can't handle the debt.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Creeping up on 29... I've teamed. Once. Technically untrue I guess since I have teamed a couple of times with my son, but he's mostly been focused on getting his MM to 50 to unlock VEATs. 5 kids, wife and work... I have time to play, but I can rarely commit to be at the keyboard uninterrupted, so I just generally don't team.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
This is true only if , when you team, you aren't the type to...
1) Complain about constantly being faceplanted and wondering why it's happening. 2) Leave the team in a lurch, because you can't handle the debt. |
So yeah, not really an issue.
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Not really... If you don't want to take Dull Pain because you don't like clicking it, then you're not going to like having to click to activate IH or MoG either and, if you don't take those two, what's the point? */Regen doesn't actually have all that impressive passive */Regen because damage recovery without damage mitigation to support it is actually pretty useless. Most of your survivability actually comes from your long recharge click powers (i.e. oh-**** powers). If you don't want to use/take the click/oh-**** powers in */Regen, what's the point?|
Originally Posted by Humility
There's more to /regen than Dull pain.
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Of course, this completely ignores the fact that, even if you didn't want to be that clicky, you would still want Dull Pain because it's a rather simple power to put on a high uptime cycle so that it simply acts as a buff to your functional passive regen rather than a heal (Werner's "don't use DP until you've already used Recon" is actually very bad advice imo; DP has the long term buff that increases your survivability after it, so I would actually recommend using DP first, especially considereing your playstyle). Dull Pain isn't just a power for "high impact play" especially when you realize that it is actually your primary source of functional damage mitigation (+hp is a functional equivalent of resistance).
Quote:
What I said was, "Don't click Dull Pain if Reconstruction is enough to cover it." That's not the same as "don't use DP until you've already used Recon", but I can see how you read it that way. I was more talking about the necessity to gauge how a fight is going, but I certainly didn't clarify, and I'd hate for people to go do all the wrong things, then say they did it because Werner said to. So I'm glad you said something.|
Originally Posted by Umbral
Werner's "don't use DP until you've already used Recon" is actually very bad advice imo; DP has the long term buff that increases your survivability after it, so I would actually recommend using DP first, especially considereing your playstyle
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Dull Pain is also a buff. If you're up to perma Dull Pain, and you're getting hurt enough to want to click a heal, you should probably get that buff up. But on a low budget like Humility's, I didn't figure that perma Dull Pain was in the cards without some serious build planning. If you're not at perma Dull Pain, clicking it now for the buff means you won't have the buff later, so you might want to wait. If Reconstruction is enough to get you through the fight, don't waste your big heal, your big buff. Save it for the next fight. I don't have perma Dull Pain on Werner (though I would get it if I was bringing my build up to date and given what I've learned since then, so don't take that as a recommendation). While Fighting an AV, I tend to want to have at least one of Dull Pain and Instant Healing active. So I'll tend to want to hold off on Dull Pain until Instant Healing wears off, and vice versa.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
This what I do even on a perma DP.|
Originally Posted by Werner
I tend to want to have at least one of Dull Pain and Instant Healing active. So I'll tend to want to hold off on Dull Pain until Instant Healing wears off, and vice versa.
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Now of course there's gonna be some time that you might need both running
My use of Dull Pain depends on the circumstances.
If I'm just bebopping around running missions I use it reactively.
Certain situations (MSTF AV fights for example) I pop Dull Pain and IH before the fight if possible, since I'm kind of squishy and oneshottable without Dull Pain up. Of course Dr. Aeon can one shot a regen through Dull Pain, so it doesn't help much in that one. His Energy Transfer REALLY F*&^$% HURTS.
Most of the time I don't even take a fight seriously unless it makes me use DP.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Just for the record, since my posts seem to be misunderstood or misrepresented... I never said I wasn't taking Dull pain. I said I haven't taken it yet. For smooth sailing low impact leveling (+0/X4 usually) there simply is not the need. I get more mileage from other powers and slotting attacks and passives at the moment.
I never said I wasn't taking it. Just that it is not enough of a priority that I want to take it RIGHT NAO. It looks like a great power, I'm not saying otherwise. However, there is more to regen than simply that one buff. The fact that I started on a fresh server with no funding and have done quite well with only cheap frankenslotting should show that. I'm not saying your special shiny power is crap, I'm just saying it doesn't suit my playstyle and needs as a priority power for early levels.
So I'm up over 30 now and looking at filling out with 30-35 IO sets (I like that level range for the good mix of effectiveness and flexibility for exemping down). Ive got a couple of 5 piece crushing impacts for the recharge so far, and have mostly frankenslotted other than that.
For a relatively low budget kinda build it looks like Crushings are a good start for attack slotting. Doctored wounds also, though I haven't 5 slotted any heals yet. Reconstruction looks like a good place to start since it would benefit from all the aspects of the set while integration would find the recharge useless. Would it be wiser to 5 slot instant healing for a doctored wounds set, or eventually both I suppose, and dull pain as well when I decide to grab it?
Any other "must have" mid price range kinda sets I should look into? Not really looking for a detailed build so much as just advice on any sets you find invaluable in your build without breaking the bank.
There probably are other must have mid ranges, but I think Crushing Impacts and Doctored Wounds are tops on the list for cheap recharge. And Doctored Wounds have very good enhancement values for Reconstruction and Dull Pain. I wouldn't "waste" Doctored Wounds on Instant Healing, though if you have the slots, and haven't violated the rule of 5, go for it.
The two set IOs that I almost always include in my builds, even while leveling, are the Steadfast Protection unique and the Kismet unique. I'm also a big fan of the Gaussian set for the +2.5% defense to all positions, but it's not really an ideal way to slot Build Up. I usually have Tactics or Focused Accuracy, though. I like Mako's Bite for the ranged defense. Not sure what any of those are going for these days. I think prices have gone up on Gaussians, though, so they may not really qualify an a budget set. Not sure about Mako's. I'm guessing not cheap, but not too crazy either.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Mid-level Mako's are all of a sudden very, very scarce. I haven't seen a single one under level 42 in the last week.
Thanks again Werner.
Now... the rule of 5s, would that apply individually to crushing and doctored? Both give 5% recharge, so would that mean that I can have a total of 5 recharge bonuses between both sets, or would each set be it's own "rule of 5"?
I actually already have both the Kismet and Steadfast uniques slotted as I grabbed them with bronze AE rolls. Yay for that. Will have to look into makos and gaussian.
So I've been tinkering with a Katana scrapper and I was looking over the Broadsword set.
It appears to me that the sets are virtual clones except Katana does less damage and has faster recharge.
Perhaps I've missed something, but that seems like it would be a significantly weaker set later in the game once you start stacking up bonuses and have a full attack chain with decent recharge. Did I miss something or is katana just a weaker set for a well developed character? There is no question that the faster recharge is nice at lower levels before you have a fleshed out attack chain, but that's not really worth shooting yourself in the foot for higher level play.
Did I miss something?