DR - What does it affect and how much ?
By
B_Witched,
Posted on: 2010-02-02 18:42 in Everything about PvP
Everything is affected different and different for each ATs, and it's al kind of wacky good luck getting real numbers for everything. I've seen some formulas but there are quiete a few and like I said all ATs are affected by DR differently so it's a lot of work/headache for not much pay off.
I like to think I know the numbers game in this game pretty good but when it comes to pvp ugh /e scrathes head, it just doesn't make sense like pve numbers do.
I'll try to find some of the formulas
Even some rough estimates would be fine as well. For example i saw one thread say something to the effect that over 60-70% recharge bonus is a waste. Now Im not sure if thats an accurate number / estimate, but if I could get official numbers or estimates like that I can at least plan better.
Im used to cranking up my recharge & accuracy in my PvE builds like mad, but its sounding like that is wasteful in a PvP build.
Over the hills and through the woods.
An observation I made in regards to the recharge :
PvE global recharge displays as 111.25% + Hasten its 181.25%.
Enter a zone : it still displays as 111.25% + Hasten 181.25%.
So was I not being affected by DR ? Or do DR effects not show up in your combat attributes ?
Over the hills and through the woods.
Quote:
I remember the discussion about this, last time it happened was about 5 months ago.|
Originally Posted by MeanNVicious
An observation I made in regards to the recharge :
PvE global recharge displays as 111.25% + Hasten its 181.25%. Enter a zone : it still displays as 111.25% + Hasten 181.25%. So was I not being affected by DR ? Or do DR effects not show up in your combat attributes ? |
Recharge is affected by DR, but it is not displayed in the combat attributes window.
DR is applied on slotting per power and totals. Ex.
You have 111.25% global recharge, and 80% recharge in said power from slotting enhancements. DR is applied to the enhancement slotting for recharge, the global bonus is added, then the total is DR'd.
80% recharge (from enhancement slotting, not bonuses)
apply DR -> 69% recharge
add global bonus -> 69%+111.25% = 180.25%
apply DR to total -> 180.25% = ~131%
So your pve 191.25% recharge between slotting and set bonuses becomes 131% in pvp.
The discussion on this can be found
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...=192019&page=1
Arcanaville's DR guide can be found
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...598#post794598
And a graph for calculating DR is here (use the numbers in archanaville's guide and hit refresh)
http://yarrison.org/dr/graph.html
Don't forget that in addition to external buffs, set bonuses, and your own powers, DR also applies to slotted enhancements (for example, High Pain Tolerance 3-slotted with heal SOs gave my Stalker about 18 HP less in a PvP zone than in a PvE zone), and you can expect the actual numbers on ally heals like Cauterize or Heal Other to be 30-40 points lower with DR.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Great TY very much for the info.
One question to top it off then. In considering slotting of powers it appears that its generally wasted to slot them for more than ~70% of any value (barring the AT specific values) ? So if I were to look at Build Up for example on a scrapper. The PvE rule of putting in no more than 3 SO's or IO's, would actually be brought down to putting in no more than two (lvl 50) recharge IO's to max out the PvP recharge ?
So when slotting powers that I dont plan to use sets on - going over ~70% in most categories isnt worth it ?
Over the hills and through the woods.
Quote:
Enhancement Diversification is applied before DR.|
Originally Posted by MeanNVicious
One question to top it off then. In considering slotting of powers it appears that its generally wasted to slot them for more than ~70% of any value (barring the AT specific values) ? So if I were to look at Build Up for example on a scrapper. The PvE rule of putting in no more than 3 SO's or IO's, would actually be brought down to putting in no more than two (lvl 50) recharge IO's to max out the PvP recharge ?
So when slotting powers that I dont plan to use sets on - going over ~70% in most categories isnt worth it ? |
Build up with 3 IOs = 127.2% recharge
Build up with 3 IOs after ed = 99.08% recharge
Build up with 3 IOs after dr = 83% recharge
Buildup recharge time = 90 / (1+0.83) = 49.18s
Build up with 2 IOs = 84.8% recharge
Build up with 2 IOs after ed = 83.32% recharge
Build up with 2 IOs after dr = 72% recharge
Buildup recharge time = 90 / (1+0.72) = 52.3s
The question becomes is that slot worth 3 seconds of recharge on a single power. In most cases it is not.
**As a side note, this system was supposed to make average players more competitive against players with more expensive builds. However, the system favors min/maxers even more so then the pre-i13 system did.
If they really wanted to make the new PVP more competitive for new players DR should only apply to set bonuses and not powers or actual enhancement values of the powers.
Why is someone with SOs getting penalized in there it's all really sad and imo not helpful in the least.
It's because the game doesn't distinguish between set bonuses, external buffs, or slotting in your own powers (yes, the real numbers tool displays each separately, but they're all treated as powers by the game engine, and changing that would require lots of work).
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
It would seem that they should remove the DR system from PvP. If the system is actually having the opposite effect of the stated goal, then thats just broken. Why keep it integrated if thats the case.
Over the hills and through the woods.
Welcome to October 2008.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
At this point DR can not be removed from pvp without other changes. If it was removed today squishies would be running around at the resistance cap and toons built for defense would have survivability comparable to what they have in pve.|
Originally Posted by MeanNVicious
It would seem that they should remove the DR system from PvP. If the system is actually having the opposite effect of the stated goal, then thats just broken. Why keep it integrated if thats the case.
|
If damage was scaled back, inherent resists were removed, and elusivity taken away, then maybe... But that would just be pre-i13 pvp with travel suppression and heal decay. A total roll back would be better.
Plus, every pvp character made over the past year would become obsolete. I'm sure many members of the community would be happy to have the old pvp back, but many would groan at all the wasted inf/time.
At this point I'd be happy with just some bug fixes ><
I'll gladly trade any PLed toon that is considered top tier in this current system to have PvP back to what it was pre-i13, including the enhancements and influence. Such a rollback could restart competitive Test PvP, where it didn't matter how much of a life you didn't have on live.
Quote:
QFT - unfortunatly they like to delete pl'ed toons without such a trade off >.>
|
Originally Posted by vindizzLe
I'll gladly trade any PLed toon that is considered top tier in this current system to have PvP back to what it was pre-i13, including the enhancements and influence. Such a rollback could restart competitive Test PvP, where it didn't matter how much of a life you didn't have on live.
|
lol!
Btw, Mass Effect 2 owns you all.
Okay I thought I had a pretty good grasp of how DR works based on the guides. But I came across an oddity when looking at resistance:
Example : Scrapper - Dark Embrace - Base S/L is 22.5%
3 Resist SO's - After ED - 56% bonus
After DR based on the chart using (.6/1.0) becomes 44% bonus
Add in global set bonuses of 8% (44%+8%) becomes 52%
DR the new total of 52% and end up with a final total of 42% bonus
If I did this right then am I seeing that I'm better off not having any global bonus at all and getting 44%, as it appears after I add in my 8% from set bonuses it drops down to 42% total bonus ?
Or do I need to DR that 44% bonus from just enhancements again (reading it as 44% + 0% therefore DR 44%) to drop it down to 37%.
Im guessing that its the latter, but I didnt know for sure if doing another total occurred if there was no additional bonuses to add.
Gotta love this DR stuff ... not 
Over the hills and through the woods.
Easiest way to deal with DR is to forget about it.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
Not quite.|
Originally Posted by MeanNVicious
Okay I thought I had a pretty good grasp of how DR works based on the guides. But I came across an oddity when looking at resistance:
Example : Scrapper - Dark Embrace - Base S/L is 22.5% 3 Resist SO's - After ED - 56% bonus After DR based on the chart using (.6/1.0) becomes 44% bonus Add in global set bonuses of 8% (44%+8%) becomes 52% DR the new total of 52% and end up with a final total of 42% bonus If I did this right then am I seeing that I'm better off not having any global bonus at all and getting 44%, as it appears after I add in my 8% from set bonuses it drops down to 42% total bonus ? Or do I need to DR that 44% bonus from just enhancements again (reading it as 44% + 0% therefore DR 44%) to drop it down to 37%. Im guessing that its the latter, but I didnt know for sure if doing another total occurred if there was no additional bonuses to add. Gotta love this DR stuff ... not |
3 Resist SO's - After ED - 56% bonus
the 56% bonus is str aspect so it uses uses the .33/.8 to become 51%
Apply the 51% buff to the power -> 1.51*22.5 = 33.975% (Resist granted from Dark embrace)
Add the bonus from global sets 33.975 + 8 = 41.975%
Apply DR to the TOTAL (this uses the .6/1.0 cur) 41.975% -> ~35%
Now if you didn't have that global bonus, DR is still applied to the total
DR on 33.975 -> ~30%
So, no you aren't worse off with the set bonus
Its confusing but keep in mind DR is applied to enhancement slotting and to totals. Say you also took tough. DR would affect the enhancement slotting in tough, and the TOTAL s/l defense from tough, set bonus, and dark embrace. It does not affect them individually. EX.Tough with 3 resist SOs - After ED - 56% bonus
the 56% bonus is str aspect so it uses uses the .33/.8 to become 51%
Apply the 51% buff to the power -> 1.51*11.3 = 17.063% (Resist granted from Tough)
Add the bonus from global sets, tough, DE 33.975 + 8 + 17.063 = 59.036%
In PvP Scrappers also get 10% bonus to resists, so add that 69.036%
Apply DR to the TOTAL (this uses the .6/1.0 cur) 69.036 -> ~52%
Just remember DR hits statistic totals, not individual powers (and enhancement slotting). Hope that clears things up a little.
Ah TY again then. That clears up it nicely.
Over the hills and through the woods.
Okay I searched the forums - browsed back pages for titles. Couldnt find any good data on this and the threads that could have linked to it seem to be gone.
How much does DR affect bonuses ? Are zone and arena affected the same ? I get the rough gist that different bonuses have different caps or amount they are affected by DR. Acc, dam, rech, range, etc etc.
Also do outside buffs apply to DR ? Or do they get applied to your DR total.
Thanks.
Over the hills and through the woods.