PB vs WS

So my tank should hit 50 tonight and I plan on making my first Kheldian after that. My only question at this point is what's the difference. After reading up on wiki the powers all seem to be the same with different names but I have to assume that there's something I'm missing. Can someone clarify this for me?

Definately not correct at all. They are extremely different from one another. First of all, I would look up some of the guides on the forum. I know of one that is an all around Kheldian guide, forgot who posted it but that person definately has done his homework lol.

A quick rundown: WS are late bloomers, they use dead bodies for summoning their pet, and acquiring end/health (at higher levels), and they also can explode corpses for damage. Definately a fun AT to play.

PB's are nice, they are not as late as the WS. They can be compared to a scrapper/blaster. (i havent really gotten a PB high in levels, but this is what i have gathered from reading the forums)

Here is one guide that i have found: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...light=Kheldian

Warshades and peacebringers definitely do have a lot of similarities on the surface, but there are many differences too, and they play quite differently.

The shapeshifted forms are the easiest to talk about, and also the most similar. Bright and dark novae indeed are effectively identical except for visuals and secondary effects on the blasts. White and black dwarf are also similar, but not as much as the nova forms. Black dwarf generally has better damage thanks to the ability to buff itself with black dwarf mire. However, white dwarf is much better at holding aggro, since white dwarf flare carries a taunt effect where black dwarf mire does not.

The human form powers and the inherents are where the real differences lie. Peacebringers get better at whatever the team isn't good at - they gain resistances from offensive oriented teammates and damage from defensive ones. As such, their inherent tends to nudge them towards a complementary role. Warshades, on the other hand, get better at the things their teammates are good at - damage from offensive allies, resistances from defensive ones. Their inherent encourages them to build on what their teammates are already doing. It is a relatively subtle, but still important difference.

More apparent, though, are the differences in human form powers. In a nutshell, warshades feed off their enemies, peacebringers do not. Both get some attacks, but there the similarities end. Peacebringers get relatively straightforward self buffs, self heals, and other abilities, where warshades suck energy from defeated foes, drain their foes to buff their own damage, and even explode their defeated enemies as bombs. Peacebringers get a traditional godmode, complete with crash. Warshades have to drain their foes to increase their toughness, but theirs recharges faster and has no crash. The peacebringer 'pet' summon is effectively a mini-nuke attached to three kamikaze exploding energy ball pets. The warshade pet summon raises a dark energy pet from a defeated foe, which follows you and attacks as a true pet - for a while.

In general, peacebringers are usually described as more consistent than warshades. Their abilities are self-contained - they heal themselves, buff their own damage with buildup, slow their endurance drain with conserve power, summon pets from their own energy, and can activate their godmode preemptively if desired. Warshades, on the other hand, play like a roller coaster - always seesawing up and down, seeking the next batch of foes to leech damage, resistances, health, and endurance from and to explode and raise pets with their bodies. The highs are higher, but there can be lows if you aren't careful, and you can't be at full strength without foes to drain.

Peacebringers are probably more straightforward to play for someone new to kheldians. It has been argued however that, in the hands of an experienced player (and with plenty of influence invested!), warshades are perhaps the more powerful - which is of course not to say that peacebringers are weak, though. Neither are the uber 'I win button' ATs many seem to expect upon misinterpreting the label 'epic AT', but they are both very interesting and potent ATs.

What's the difference between a Peacebringer and a Warshade?

This has been getting asked often enough from new (or soon to be) 50s to merit a quick-reply cut and paste from me. Welcome to the world of Khelds! Enjoy your stay?

Basic reading

These guides will help you a lot:

Iscariot's guide to the triform Warshade by Justaris. Yes, it's warshade specific.

Plasma's ultimate guide to Kheldians for a very thorough overview. Really. It's long-ish, but read it.

And for the backstory, there's my own backstory guide. More "in game lore" than powers.

A quick overview

Khelds in general - Can be built around one (human) form or multiple forms, known as biform or triform. The other forms act like a blaster and a sort of "pocket tank." Human form buffs carry over - if you hit Hasten, you get it for the full length of Hasten. it doesn't cut off when you switch forms. Toggles, however, do at this time.

That said, the two are different in many fundamental ways.

Peacebringer - the old reliable.

Peacebringers are completely "self contained" Khelds. What this means is that all of their buffs and heals are going to act exactly the same, given the same level and slotting, every time. If you're level 40 and hit your self-heal for, say, 200 HP (making up a number) one time, and you hit it again without levelling, you'll get 200 HP again.

Peacebringers are more melee-oriented. They're more "in your face" than a Warshade. The example I used one other time was, if you insult a Peacebringer in a bar, they'll punch you in the mouth. A Warshade will go outside, slit your tires and fill your gas tank with sugar.

Peacebringers get Fly as an inherent travel power, and are locked out of any form of Teleport (other than the Dwarf form teleport, if you take that form.) And all Peacebringer attacks do a -defense debuff to whatever they hit.

Peacebringer Dwarf form gets an AOE knockdown and a click self heal that, again, is completely self contained.

Warshades - the wild, unpredictable ride.

Warshades have higher highs and lower lows in their performance. Where Peacebringers are completely self contained, Warshades rely on living or defeated foes for their buffs. Self heals - especially Stygian Circle - perform better with more defeated enemies around. Self buffs - such as Sunless Mire and Ecliipse - will give greater benefit with more live foes around. (This is part of why they also get some self-stealth, an oppressive Gloom clone, and I'm pretty sure part of the reason behind Teleport.)

Warshades are very control heavy. Every attack does some -slow and -recharge if it hits. They get an option of self stealth in shadow cloak, an Oppressive Gloom (PBAOE stun) clone, Gravity Well as a hold and other immobilizes and stuns.

Warshades also get somewhat longer lasting pets (and, generally, more useful) in Extracted Essence, which adds to your firepower, but requires a freshly defeated enemy to extract. It's also pretty much impossible to get them from ghost-type enemies and machines that explode. You can, with enough recharge, have up to three of them out for a short time, but they will expire. The plus side is that they do stick around once you're defeated. A Warshade in Nova with two "koosh balls" next to them spitting out damage is loads of fun.

Warshade Dwarf form gets another Mire (recently buffed!) and their self heal is a single-target attack which must hit - it's a copy of Siphon Life from Dark Melee.

Warshades, of course, also start with Teleport and are locked out of Fly (except in Nova form.) that said, TP Foe (Starless Step) and Gravity Well (your hold) are an excellent way to take care of pesky Void hunters before they get a shot off at you. You also get Shadow Recall at level 10, which pre-travel-power teammates (and later, those who want to stealth missions) will greatly appreciate.

Which is better?

They're both good, but they shine in different situations. If I'm clearing out a map, a Warshade's going to have lots of groups to play with, siphon from, get essences and the like. If I'm facing a long, one on one fight versus, say, an AV or EB, the Peacebringer's going to have an easier time with it, as the Warshade will only have the one target to buff from and will, over time, lose the essences.

I *generally* suggest a first time Kheld start with a Peacebringer to get a feel for everything. That said, they're both a lot of fun - and yes, I have multiples of them at 50, and don't regreat any of them.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Not too much into pvp so it will likely be stricly pve... actually I have yet to engage in pvp ever in this game lol.

Thanks all for the replies... maybe I'll just make one of each

People have explained the technical sides of it much better than I could, and linked to the guides.
So, I'll add in the one thing no ones mentioend yet;
Sound effects.

It sounds petty. But I cannot physically play Peacebringers. Why? Because the sound effect on EVERY attack gives me a headache during even a short fight. Seriously. It's persistant, longer than it should be and it stacks up.
Warshades, on the other hand, have a low muted drone sound fx on their attacks, which you barely notice.

Just one last thing to toss into the mixer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I read the title of this thread, and the part of me that loves to purposefully misunderstand abbreviations screamed out at the top of its imaginary lungs "Peanut Butter or Worcester? How ODD!"

That being said, I think that all the explaining in the world isn't quite as good as playing both and seeing the difference for yourself. Yes, they have a lot of powers that LOOK the same, minus the colors, but their health, powers, and other things are totally different, like comparing a defender to a controller.

Yep, the Peacebringer basically is constant and solid, being mainly a damage dealer. The Warshade feeds off his enemies, becoming much stronger against large groups of foes, but not having quite the same ability against smaller groups as the Peacebringer.

This is not to say the PB solos better than the WS, but you would solo the PB at +2/x1, while you would solo the WS at +0/x3.

The PB also tends to be more the specialist, better filling the blaster or tanker role as the team needs. His human form gets most of the damage. The WS's human form is more a controller and jack of all trades, while his forms are more general, having both high damage and defense. (When stacked with Mire/double Mire and Eclipse) This fits with the Inherent, the PB tends to complement the team, while the WS matches the team's strengths.

And one of each is a very good idea.

Peacebringers also have a lot of great utility that they bring to the table. Pulsar's great for locking down groups (especially in conjunction with something like a Fire Controller) and makes you one of the better people to eat the alpha if you have the necessary Blaster/Scrapper entourage to res cap you. Glowing Touch is a beefy heal that a lot of people seem to forget about, but it's invaluable in a group scenario. Smart PBs also know how to position themselves so that you can send things flying with your KB in a way that's useful rather than harmful, such as sending ranged dudes into range of your tank, or knocking them against a wall/pillar.