Trick Archery -- Proposed Blaster Secondary power set
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-01-28 09:59 in Suggestions and Ideas
Passing on comment until other people have had a look.
/On the Fence
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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seems interesting to me, but it could have melee attacks such as arrow stab, where you are close enough to the enemy you just stab them with the arrow.
the tier 9 could be what manti has, the teleport arrow
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Heh, the devs are adament about not giving us signature costume pieces; I doubt they'd give us Sig Powers.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
seems interesting to me, but it could have melee attacks such as arrow stab, where you are close enough to the enemy you just stab them with the arrow.
the tier 9 could be what manti has, the teleport arrow |
Not to mention Teleport Arrow is Auto-hit, irrc. Yeah, you might be able to balance it some, but still...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Ok, first thoughts:
1. Web Arrow and Smoke Screen Arrow. Trick Arrow already has both of these powers, so I say call them by the TA names rather than the devices names, for consistency .
2. For Tesla Arrow you say it's based on Tesla Coil, but I assume you meant Tesla Cage? If so, I'd prefer to see it changed to a weaker version of Ice Arrow. Again, I'd prefer to see the set copy from Trick Arrow when possible.
3. I think that Oil Slick Arrow is to good for a Blaster set (especially if the damage is increased to Blaster levels). I would suggest either removing the debuff functions and making it a pure damage power (rename Fire Patch Arrow?) or keep the debuff and remove the ability to light it. I think balance-wise it should also have a smaller radius than OSA. alternatively replace it with Glue Arrow (another nice AoE debuff).
4. Boost Range. I don't have a problem with this, it just seems an odd fit for the set.
5. Ricochet Shot. I HATE this. It makes little to no sense thematically and the fact that the set has only one melee attack (and a multi target one at that) seems a bit odd. If you want melee attacks I'd suggest making them non-bow related and re-animate them to use the left-handed stance (which the bow uses). Personally. my vote is for Martial Art style kicks.
6. Master Archer (stick with the more generic name). Well first off, I'm pretty sure that the eliminate interrupt portion isn't actually possible with the way power's work. Secondly I just don't particularly care for the power. I can't really say why to be honest but it just feels wrong for a Blaster T9 secondary power. Most Manipulation sets have a powerful melee attack or a PBAoE but it isn't universal. I think a better starting point might be to go along the lines of an armor set T9 power re-themed for a blaster. For example, give it moderate bonuses to recharge, damage and to-hit along with a large boost to recovery. But then follow the trend of One With The Shield of a 60-120second duration but then a very long un-enhanceable recharge with a small crash.
Overall, I think you have got a decent starting point. My main complaint is related to Ricochet Arrow, it feels out of place in the set. Either you need more melee attacks (at the very least replace Boost Range and make OSA pure damage) or it needs to be replaced with something else. Having only one melee attack just feels wrong.
For the record, here was my attempt at a TA themed set:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=204832
Also as a side note regarding this comment:
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Something you might want to keep in mind is animations. In several cases you are copying existing power effects but in a way that requires new animations. From the devs point of view the animations probably take more developer time than deisgning the powers themselves so your set isn't as "low-effort" as you seem to be aiming for.
| Utilize existing powers to minimize design effort |
Clarification:
(1) The proposed Richochet Shot is a ranged attack using the targeting mechanics of Chain Induction. It is not a melee attack. The character shoots an arrow which hits the first target then richochets to the next etc. The proposed secondary set has the same number of melee attacks as Devices: none.
(2) The proposed Web Arrow and Smoke Screeen Arrow are arrow-ized versions of Devices' Web Grenade and Smoke Grenade. The only power copied over from TA is Oil Slick.
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I still don't particularly like the power, although i guess the comments about only one melee are invalid. Also in devices both Trip Mine and Time Bomb take the role of melee attacks, in particular many devices blasters use Trip Mine as a pre-set melee defense. In this you don't really have any solid damage powers (except OSA which is very long recharge and a bit to good on a blaster for my liking). Even ranged Richochet Shot is a very out of place skill for a Manipulation set especially in a high tier. In general most ranged abilities in manipulation sets are controls rather than attacks, I don't really see it as a useful power for a blaster to be honest.|
Originally Posted by Doc_Hornet
(1) The proposed Richochet Shot is a ranged attack using the targeting mechanics of Chain Induction. It is not a melee attack. The character shoots an arrow which hits the first target then richochets to the next etc. The proposed secondary set has the same number of melee attacks as Devices: none.
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(2) The proposed Web Arrow and Smoke Screeen Arrow are arrow-ized versions of Devices' Web Grenade and Smoke Grenade. The only power copied over from TA is Oil Slick. . |
Reinventing the wheel adds pointless production time.
Copy Entangling Arrow and Flash Arrow since it is the blaster version of an existing set.
Not sure about the boost range. Seems like it would be more useful to have an arrow you shoot at your feet and it cause PBOA knockback.
I'd like to suggest adding a power with the animation from Brawl that keeps the bow in hand. Just a weak damage melee attack with a chance to disorient. Blaster secondaries should have something for melee, and I think we all want to smack someone with a bow.
NPCs: A Single Method to Greatly Expand Bases
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Keep in mind that while Devices has no melee attacks, it also has no ranged attacks. The mines could be considered location based AoEs, but considering that you must be at the location where you intend to lay them, I would call them the Devices version of melee attacks. |
Originally Posted by Doc_Hornet
The proposed secondary set has the same number of melee attacks as Devices: none.
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Oil Slick Arrow, for instance, while it is a nice damaging power, can also be laid at range. I think the fact that it has to be LIT, thus requiring you to choose a Primary that can light it, and use another attack, should compensate for that. (Plus, sets like Mental do have a cone attack) Even so, I would say that's the only ranged attack the devs would likely give to such a set.
Smoke Screen Arrow also comes much too soon, given that you have to wait until 16 for Smoke Grenade. And Entangling Arrow and Flash Arrow are close enough that you could use the names, the only difference is that Web Grenade actually slows the target more, and Smoke Grenade has a slightly higher -Acc. And that's really to compensate for the lower Blaster debuff modifier.
My version of a Blaster Bow Secondary would be as follows:
1) Entangling Arrow - uses Web Grenade numbers
2) Glue Arrow - Same slow as Caltrops (so no -recharge) no damage but with range
3) Bow Smash - Strike with the end of the bow as a whip, low End cost and high accuracy like all Archery attacks
4) Impact Arrow - As Stunning Shot, but causes knockback instead of stun. (Or you can go all out and make it a Boxing Glove arrow
)5) Build Up
6) Flash Arrow - uses Smoke Grenade numbers
7) Ice Arrow - Range is better than similar powers like Shocking Grasp or Freezing Touch, but does no damage.
8) Oil Slick Arrow - No defense debuff, so essentially Ice Patch with more range and can be lit
9) Bow Sweep - PBAoE sweeping the bow in a circle. High chance of knockback for all targets hit.
I have to admit I do like the idea of Boost Range, but I've always wondered why there was no Boxing Glove Arrow in either Archery or Trick Arrow. Tesla Arrow is covered by Ice Arrow (you can give it as much damage as Tesla Cage if you feel it's too weak) and I think the "original" powers Knockout Gas Arrow and Richochet Shot are too gimmicky, and would require a lot of work to design new graphics. The intent to reuse powers are fine, but you're not really reusing them if you have to design whole new animations for them.
Bow Smash and Bow Sweep could easily be implemented with existing melee animations, holding out the bow. I see Bow Sweep being aimed at the feet, but it could be aimed at the midsection just as well. Alternately, they could just use Crane Kick and Dragon's Tail as animations, holding out the bow but not using it to strike. I'd prefer that as another set, though.
Alternately, Glue Arrow and Bow Smash can be swapped, but I put it where Caltrops is in Devices instead of where the melee attack is for the other Secondaries. The lack of damage in Glue Arrow may be a problem early on, though, so maybe a switch is a good idea.
(And now we need an Arrow Control...
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Something to keep in mind though is that Glue Arrow is FAR superior to Caltrops (especially once you hit SOs and can slot more recharge). The damage in Caltrops is negligible so that is basically a non-factor (except that it technically means you could slot an extra damage proc in there if you were insane). The important difference is that the glue arrow debuff lingers for 30seconds after the opponent leave the patch while the Caltrops debuff ends immediately. In exchange Caltrops gets a shorter recharge and a fear effect which can be a double edged sword.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Alternately, Glue Arrow and Bow Smash can be swapped, but I put it where Caltrops is in Devices instead of where the melee attack is for the other Secondaries. The lack of damage in Glue Arrow may be a problem early on, though, so maybe a switch is a good idea.
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| Smoke Screen Arrow also comes much too soon, given that you have to wait until 16 for Smoke Grenade. And Entangling Arrow and Flash Arrow are close enough that you could use the names, the only difference is that Web Grenade actually slows the target more, and Smoke Grenade has a slightly higher -Acc. And that's really to compensate for the lower Blaster debuff modifier. |
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Trick Archery -- Proposed Blaster Secondary power set
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Design Parameters:
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Distinct from Trick Arrow set
Eliminate bow weapon redraws between this secondary and Archery primary (no melee attacks)
Leave major crowd debuffing to Defender/Controller/Corruptor Trick Arrow set
Utilize existing powers to minimize design effort (exception Tier 9 power)
Unique Tier 9 Power that defines the set
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Overview
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Trick Archery
Your highly-honed archery skills and specially-tipped arrows can dramatically alter a battle site.
1. Web Arrow
2. Smoke Sreen Arrow
3. Build Up
4. Knockout Gas Arrow
5. Boost Range
6. Tesla Arrow
7. Ricochet Shot
8. Oil Slick Arrow
9. Spirit of Agincourt/Master Archer/Nonpareil (3 name choices offered)
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Powers
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1. Web Arrow -- Arrow version of Traps Web Grenade
2. Smoke Screen Arrow -- Arrow version of Devices Smoke Grenade
3. Build Up -- typical Blaster Build Up (animation does not drop bow)
4. Knockout Gas Arrow -- Arrow version of Blaster Munitions Mastery Sleep Grenade Game. Keep grenade's small 15' radius.
5. Boost Range -- Energy Manipulation Boost Range (animation does not drop bow)
6. Tesla Arrow -- Arrow version of Tesla Coil
7. Ricochet Shot -- Arrow version of Scrapper Chain Induction (uses Stunning Shot arrow tip for animation, arrow "bounces" between struck targets). Smashing damage only.
8. Oil Slick Arrow -- TA Oil Slick Arrow. Possibly reduce radius.
9. Spirit of Agincourt/Master Archer/Nonpareil -- While this power is active, you are the living embodiment of history's greatest archers. Toggle: Self +ToHit, +Recharge, Special
+tohit 7% (= Tactics pool power [blaster stats] self buff only)
+Recharge 20% (= Quickness power)
Removes all Interrupt on Archery primary set Ranged Shot power
High end cost (= Focused Accuracy)
Enhancements allowed: Endurance Reduction, +To Hit, Recharge Reduction
IO sets allowed: +To Hit
Tier 9 Power Game Balance Considerations: This self-buff toggle combines the equivalent of 1 passive & 1 power pool toggle power -- with 1 unique mechanic applied to one specific power -- balanced by a notably high end cost and the use of Tier 9 slot. Toggle drops on successful stun/hold/sleep on character. IO sets limited to +To Hit. Power not available until level 38, and greyed-out if SSKd below level 33. Lengthy recharge on non-interruptible Ranged Shot prevents it from becoming uberpower. Increased use of Ranged Shot in combat makes up some of the damage lacking in Trick Archery normally found in other Blaster secondaries.
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Power Set Summary:
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1 ST Immob
1 ST Hold
1 Small Radius AOE Sleep
2 AOE Debuffs (1 -tohit/percep, 1 KD with possible AOE DOT damage)
1 AOE Damage attack
2 Self-Buff clicks
1 Toggle Self-Buff
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