Electric/Ice Tank Build Question

I recently built an Electric/Ice Tank, figuring the Electric armour and Ice melee would be a good combination. I've got it up to lvl 35 now and am starting to regret it, however. I have the armor powers slotted with 4 Damage Resist enhancements (about 5 powers) and I'm still taking a lot of damage. Or at least a lot more than I would expect a tank to take. After all, it IS a tank and should be able to withstand a lot of damage.

So far the Ice melee has been relatively lackluster. Can do a fair amount of damage, although it's slow and tedious. Nothing really awe-inspiring like "stomp" for superstrength or other tank builds. Nothing really there for doing large groups of foes. Sure I can make them slip and fall, but it does no damage. Maybe once I get Frozen Aura that will change.

And finally, what's with the endurance drain? I've 4 slotted my Stamina with 4 end enhancers and I'm still running out of endurance pretty fast. Dropped at least one end reduction enh on most of the melee and armor powers, still sucks. The Power Sink is ok, but I have to use it over and over in groups, even small ones (or so it seems at this time).

So did I make a cosmic blunder in this build? Or does anyone have a similar build that can advise me on how best to slot this puppy to be the tank I feel it deserves to be. Any suggestions are welcome.

Well, for a more detailed response, I'd love to see your actual build. Downloading Mid's Hero Builder would help us out a lot.

However, without that, I'll try my hand at this:

1) Take Tough. It'll help you out a lot.

2) Make sure that you put 3 RecRed, and 3 Heals in Energize. This will keep you up most of the time.

3) The 4th DamRes enhancement in your toggles isn't doing all that much, thanks to ED. If you have 4 slots in each of your armor toggles, they should be 3 DamRes, 1 EndRed.

4) Ice Melee has always been a low-damage secondary. It was mainly created to be the control secondary, and it does that pretty well. Frozen Touch and Ice Patch are good helps, and Ice Patch should mean that you're taking less damage. When you get to level 38, and get Frozen Aura, your PBAoE damage will go up tremendously. It's a great power now.

5) For the Endurance, I'd really need to see a build. Yes, you can suck down endurance, but Power Sink should get you that back, and more. Make sure that each attack has at least one EndRed in it, and Power Sink is slotted for about 90%+ Recharge, and you should be fine on End.

6) You didn't make a mistake, but you may have really over-hyped this particular combo.

Without seeing your build, or knowing exactly where you want to go (any preferences on travel powers? Any them you're trying to adhere to? Are you willing to take the fghting pool? etc) All I can really give you is some generic advice. First, if you don't have Mids Hero Designer, download it, it's wonderful. (http://www.cohplanner.com/)

After you've downloaded it, fill in your build and post it back here, we'll be able to help you a lot more with that information.

Now for the more generic info.

You only need 3 Resistance SOs or mid level (lvl 30+) common IOs in each resistance power, so go ahead and take one slot from each of them. This should help with other issues down the road. Make sure you slot Lightning Field for a lot of endurance reduction as it has a base cost of .52 end per second, which is about a third of your base recovery.

You've mentioned at least on SOs worth of end redux in everything else, and that should be sufficient (though only three slot stamina unless you're going for set bonuses).

Don't forget that Energize (your heal) is also a 30 sec end reduction itself (meaning it will reduce the end costs of all your powers by an additional 30% for the 30 seconds it is active) this power should be 6 slotted with 3 heal SOs and 3 recharge SOs.

I'll need more information to help more with the end issues, but as a general rule and Elec tank shouldn't be having them (my elec/elec tank doesn't even have stamina and is always fine, granted I use Power Sink alot )

As for the Ice Melee... yeah. Having a SD/IM tank myself sitting at 50 I can tell you the single target damage is rather, "meh". I skipped both sword powers, they're just not good bang for your buck end wise - and their activations are painfully slow. The must haves for a tank (as I see it, YMMV) are Frost (the ranged cone), Freezing Touch (melee hold, best ST power in the set, but it's a DoT, so it doesn't look all that impressive, but it is) and of course Frozen Aura. Frozen Aura was buffed to have Footstomp's damage (though a smaller radius) a while back and it is a great, fast recharging AoE power, with the same animation as footstomp, so it's quick.

Using Frost properly can take some getting used to, but once you've got the cone mechanics down its very easy to hit multiple targets very hard with that power.

Now to the durability. Elec Melee is a resistance set, so you're flat out going to get hit more, but you've got a pretty nice heal that when slotted correctly should be available about once a minute. while that's not as cool as Fire's heal every 10-15 seconds, keep in mind it has very nice regen boost and end reduction bonuses that last for 30 seconds after you click it. I would strongly recommend Tough for this set, and if you want to try getting your defenses up a bit (you will be amazed at the added survivability) also taking Weave. These of course will addd to your end woes, so lets see if we can't fix those first

Just gonna third tough, if you don't have it, get it. Tough for tankers isn't like tough for the other classes, a very solid 15% base s/l resist, puts you at about 77% with your other armors, and capped vs energy naturally. You'll be very solid.

The difference between having tough and not having it was night and day, I went from worrying about having my heal ready as often as possible and thinking I couldn't take alphas to being so used to not NEEDING to heal that sometimes I'd forget all together. Lately I've just been setting it to auto, enemies just don't hurt me enough and the heal serves as good regen/end reduction on auto.

Perhaps it's because I'm elec/elec and it kills a little faster, or the sapping is doing the work (wait, that's mostly just power sink and lightning field) I always though /ice was supposed to be higher mitigation anyway.

Oh yea, you mentioned a lack of endurance? That'll be coming from lightning field, tag an end reducer in it. Make sure to use your heal often (it's like half a conserve power) and using power sink repeatedly is good for you, it's an area taunt and it saps your foes, slot it up. I have my tanker with only 2 slots in stamina simply because I don't need more, even running all the toggles (including tough and often ninja run) no problems have come of it.

So, don't worry too much about elec armor being resistance, it is powerful indeed, leverage your ability to sap to detoggle all your enemies. And Get tough! there's no way you have it for the complaint to be there.

Definitely don't be shy to show the build as is.

I agree with what others have already said, Ice Melee is pretty "meh" as far as damage goes. Pumping more damage out of the set might not be that easy. Frozen Aura (Ice Stomp) helps and is fun to watch post 38 (once it has some slots).

As for Electric Armor, it is a Resistant Set so, you'll always be taking damage. Here are some thoughts after leveling mine to 50:

If you don't have Power Sink, get and slot it for recharge and Endurance Modification (I have 5 or 6 slots in mine). You can drain almost all Endurance from mobs with one application and completely with two. No Endurance means the mobs can only use their base attacks (mostly...there are exceptions) which helps reduce the amount of incoming damage. It also replenishes your Endurance, so having this power up frequently really helps if you are having Endurance issues.

Make sure you have Energize 6 slotted with SOs or Common IOs (3 recharge, 3 heals). Doctored Wounds works well here with a minimum of 5 slots for the Recharge Bonus. More healing is important with an all Resist Primary Power set. Plus every time this power fires it reduces the Endurance cost of your powers for 30 seconds.

Also try to slot some Defense into your build. See if you can add the Fighting Pool. Take Boxing, Tough and Weave (as others have mentioned). Try to slot the Unique +3% Defense from Steadfast Protection into one of your armors.

Like Fire Tanks, Electric Tanks really benefit for more Recharge. I went this route with mine and it work pretty well (although I do notice/regret not having more Defense). Take Hasten and Lightning Reflexes if you can to help reduce the recharge times of Energize and Power Sink. If you can work the Unique from Winter's Gift (resist Effect Slow/Recharge) into your build do so. It will help against recharge debuffs.

You should be able to choose a few more powers post level 40 that will help with damage mitigation. You might want to look at Power Master as Energy Torrent will give you another Knock Down power to compliment Ice Patch. And if you're still having Endurance issues Conserve Power and Physical Perfection are there to help. If you want more Damage look at Pyre Mastery.

5-6 slotting Lightning Field will help with your overall damage output. Make sure you have at least 50% (60% or higher is better) Endurance Reduction slotted in it. I like using a full set of Multistrike here, but Frankenslotting with Scirocco's is also and option. Shoot for at least 40% Accuracy and then as much damage as you can.

Hope this helps, post your build and we can help even more.

*Sigh* Ice Melee is anything but meh. Please refer to my guide in sig.

ELA, yes, get Tough, but try to pump up your defenses as well. Imagine Elec Armor w/77% S/L res, capped en, around 50% everything else (except toxic), and add capped S/L defenses. Yeah, you don't need that heal so much.

Any chance we could hook up so I can see one of your IMers in action? I have several IM toons and would love to see how I could improve them. If you're up to it we could meet on the test server. That way I could load several toons with different sets so I have a basis of comparison.

Ok, you all are talking above my head, with this "frankenslotting" and stuff. I did download that planner you mentioned. I've got all the powers on it, maybe not in exact order I picked, but slotting is correct. Had to delete one power I selected but didn't have (don't ask why - brain fart). Don't know how to put this somewhere for you to look at it though since I can't post attachments. Any suggestion?

Don't know if this is right, but here's what I get when I try to export it.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Lectra duFrost: Level 40 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Electric Armor
Secondary Power Set: Ice Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Charged Armor -- EndRdx(A), ResDam(3), ResDam(3), ResDam(5), ResDam(5)
Level 1: Frozen Fists -- Dmg(A), Dmg(23), Acc(23)
Level 2: Lightning Field -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(13), Dmg(15), Dmg(15), EndMod(17)
Level 4: Conductive Shield -- EndRdx(A), ResDam(7), ResDam(7), ResDam(9), ResDam(9)
Level 6: Static Shield -- ResDam(A), ResDam(17), ResDam(19), ResDam(19)
Level 8: [Empty]
Level 10: Ice Sword -- Dmg(A), Dmg(25), Acc(25)
Level 12: Energize -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(13), RechRdx(21), Heal(21), Heal(40)
Level 14: Frost -- Dmg(A), Dmg(29), Dmg(29), EndRdx(31), Acc(31)
Level 16: Taunt -- Taunt(A)
Level 18: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 20: Health -- Heal(A), Heal(34), Heal(36), Heal(36)
Level 22: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(36), EndMod(37), EndMod(37)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(37)
Level 26: Power Sink -- EndRdx(A), RechRdx(27), EndMod(27), EndMod(40)
Level 28: Freezing Touch -- Dmg(A), Dmg(31), Dmg(33), EndRdx(33), Acc(33)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(34), RechRdx(34)
Level 32: Super Speed -- Run(A)
Level 35: Lightning Reflexes -- Run(A)
Level 38: Frozen Aura -- Dmg(A), RechRdx(39), EndRdx(39), Acc(39)
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Dmg(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Heal(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet

To the OP, why is combat jumping in your build right now? If it's for mobility reasons, I understand, but right now your main issue is survivability. I'd use the slotting recommendations that Aett made, and drop CJ from the build. Definitely pick up Grounded. If you drop one of your attacks along with CJ, you could respec into Tough. Why not try this out and see how you feel about your tanks survival quality?

I'm going to stress that 6-slotting Energize (3 rech, 3 heal) and slotting Power Sink (3 rech, 1-2 end mod) will go a long way towards your toon's durability in both health, and endurance woes. After 3 recharges in PS, you shouldn't even have endurance woes. If you have 1-2 end mods in there, you can drain foes quite well, which also makes you more durable.

Ok, they all sound like good suggestions. I've got one respec from vet rewards, so I'll try redoing it using your suggestions. Combat Jumping was for mobility, but also for defense slots. But I see where Tough and Weave would probably be better choices. I'll respec today sometime and run a few quick missions to see how it goes. Think I'll drop that first "ice sword" (wish I could drop frozen fists) and move some of the slots around. I'll let you know how it goes. And honestly folks... THANKS for the advice. Even though I've been playing this game for over a year, I still feel like I just don't know enough about slotting and picking the right powers. Guess we all keep on learning.

Oh, one other question... when you suggest Tough and Weave - how many slots are you recommending? 3 Defense each?

Ok, got the respec done and went for a stroll through about 6 solo radio missions of varying diff levels. Must say, survivability is MUCH improved. Even when surrounded by a dozen carnies that were all out for a piece of me, dropping the ice patch and then just whittling them down one or two at a time (frost cone is deceptively effective) while the lightning field also leeches off the group's hit points while I'm zeroing in on a particular target. Yes, have to agree with dave_p that damage inflicted is not spectacular, like a dual blade or super strength tank would be - but in a team environment - if I keep the crowd of bad guys focused on me while I keep them flopping around on the ice patch and dealing damage - it allows my teammates to pick off whomever they choose.

And since I can recoup HP and energy when necessary (yes, a sufficiently large group or higher level group of villains can still kill me), I'm much more confident when taking on significantly larger groups than before.

So guess long story made short - it works! And I'm suitably impressed. Now to press on to getting up to lvl 50. Oh, btw - any thoughts on whether "Taunt" is really necessary? Seems like I haven't had to use it at all since as soon as I get close to any group - they automatically target me anyway. And if a teammate gets in trouble, I just wallop their attacker and get their attention. And how about an Epic power? Ice Mastery maybe? Or is it even going to make much of a difference?

Ok... Thanks Dawn. I'm going to take that as a "depends on the person using it" kind of response. Would you have any other suggestions?