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I just dont find long recharge powers exciting, I guess, no matter how good they are when they function.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Is having so much endurance recovery that you almost can't run out for 90 seconds at a time not worth something to you? Especially when combined with an AoE -30% resistance in set that already gets an AoE with an additional -30% resistance. I just find it surprising.
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Lewis
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Originally Posted by Reptlbrain
I'd say it's more useful than that, especially, as someone pointed out upthread, after the mez-BF-AA recharging sequence. I find myself using the PBAoE holds pretty often on all my 40+ trollers, though that may be because they either have lots of recharge and/or a second EMPulse/Arrow.
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I use glacier all the time on my Ice control characters.
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I agree that most sets for holds and slows are pretty unimpressive. Rather than go for the bonuses, you may find more benefit in frankenslotting. So here is my advice in an inelegant list.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
Again, thanks for all the help. I revised my intentions for the character and put together a proposed build that takes most of them into account. I did take Glacier, but postponed it; my one previous experience with a high level controller suggested that the recharge on PBAoE holds is such that they get put in a place on the task bar reserved for powers that are saved for special and emergency occasions that never come.
I added some "yeah, right" sets for this, looking chiefly for recharge and recovery; endurance seems a serious issue already. Since I know hold and slow set piece chiefly as ... disappointments ... this can't be that expensive to make, can it? |
- Block of Ice - Load it up with acc/hold/recharge. The bonuses from Ghost Widow are luckluster at best.
- Arctic Air - I find endurance slotting is a must here. You can get some decent values by using the confuse/end, accuracy/endruance, and triples from different sets. The recharge bonus from Malaise is nice, but not worth gimping this power.
- Snowstorm - IIRC, this power is auto-hit. Also, slow enhancements only affect runspeed. One slot, maybe two, with an endurance reduction is all you need. Again, the bonuses aren't worth the slots.
- Shiver - I tend to slot this with 3 acc/end from slow sets then two generic recharge IO's. Again, the -recharge is the important element here. This slotting lets you toss it out more often and for less endurance.
- Ice Slick - Generally, two recharge IO's will suffice. The third only shaves off about 4 seconds outside of hasten and 2 seconds when its up.
- Jack Frost - drop the Acc/Dam/Recharge from Expedient Reenforcement, regen bonuses aren't so great with controller level hp. You can use the slot somewhere else.
- Sleet - I tend to balance out the recharge, defense debuff, and endurance cost of this power by mixing it up. It's a great place for the Achilles' Heel proc, though it is expensive.
- Heat Loss - You can drop a slot by using acc/recharge from Performance Shifter rather than two generic IO's.
- Arctic Fog - Slot for Defense rather than resistance. The positional defense will be useful in more cases than resistance to fire, cold, and energy.
Finally, we get to the epics. I'm going on the assumption that you were lured to the Primal Forces Mastery, but the idea of Powerboosted shields and slows. Unfortunately, the shields including Arctic Fog won't be affected by it. It also doesn't boost -recharge, the part of slow powers that actually mitigates damage. I recommend this guide for getting a feel of what it affects. After that you may decide on a different epic.
I think with an aoe heavy primary like ice and sleet in the secondary that Ice Mastery and Ice Storm would be a very nice addition. Also nice thematically. I know my Illusion/Cold is looking forward to it.
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Comments on most recent build:
- Take Shiver or Snow Storm, but not both. Enemies have a cap of -70% Recharge. One application of Shiver will put a +0 or +1 enemy at the floor. Arctic Air + Shiver will floor a +4 enemy. Personally I prefer Shiver to Snow Storm but its your pick.
- I'm going to disagree with some previous advice about slotting Arctic Fog for defense. Slotting it will only get you about 1.5% more defense, and you are and your shields are so far from the cap that you will never notice that difference. Slot it for endurance first, resistance second.
- I'd slot Super Speed for endurance instead of run speed. You're going to be using to go invisible, and your issue will be your blue bar, not how fast you can run into walls.
- Glacier needs six slots, five as an absolute minimum. It needs recharge, accuracy, and hold duration, in that order. You do not need to wait for "emergency" moments to use it either. Just fire it off every 4 groups or so. Blasters will love you because the power just screams HAI GUYZ THE GROUP IZ DEFENSELEZZ GO NUTZ!
- Don't slot knockback IOs in Energy Torrent. This is a knockdown power normally, but under your slotting it does knockback.
- I highly recommend droppiing Conserve Power for a single target blast. Your endurance issues are going to largely go away once you get Heat Loss on a good cycle.
- You may want to consider a new APP. Power Boost is amazing with Benumb and Sleet, but not so great with Ice Control in general. I recommend looking into the Mind APP especially, because Indomitable Will grants mezz protection very helpful for preventing Arctic Air from detoggling.
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I considered that. But this isn't real Indomitable Will, is it? Just some kind of cruel sham that's a click power with a long recharge, not a toggle?|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
- You may want to consider a new APP. Power Boost is amazing with Benumb and Sleet, but not so great with Ice Control in general. I recommend looking into the Mind APP especially, because Indomitable Will grants mezz protection very helpful for preventing Arctic Air from detoggling.
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Right now, it looks like the character is going to need all the endurance help she can get.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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Actually, it is the real indomitable will.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
I considered that. But this isn't real Indomitable Will, is it? Just some kind of cruel sham that's a click power with a long recharge, not a toggle?
Right now, it looks like the character is going to need all the endurance help she can get. |
The willpower version came after
But yes, it's not a toggle, based off of, I suspect, Practiced Brawler from the Super Reflexes set.
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Can it be made permanent with SOs like Practised Brawler can? Click mez protection that can't be would only be useful if it could be also activated when mezzed, and I don't remember seeing that here. Otherwise, it's a power selection that duplicates the function of an inspiration, only not as well.
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Originally Posted by Frost
But yes, it's not a toggle, based off of, I suspect, Practiced Brawler from the Super Reflexes set.
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<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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Unfortunately, the recharge time is so long that it takes a ton of recharge buffs to make it perma. I have the Psi APP with Indomidible Will on my Fire/Rad, mainly to reduce the times that Choking Cloud and Hot Feet get detoggled. (Choking Cloud used to have a very long recharge, but that was reduced a while ago.) Even though IW is a click power with a longish recharge, I think it is up on my Fire/Rad about 70-80% of the time, so he rarely gets mezzed. Even though it is not perma, I find it very worth while. Another important factor: The Psi APP now has World of Confusion, which could stack with the Confuse in AA! My Ice/Storm does not currently have the Psi APP, but for this alone, I'm considering changing.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
Can it be made permanent with SOs like Practised Brawler can? Click mez protection that can't be would only be useful if it could be also activated when mezzed, and I don't remember seeing that here. Otherwise, it's a power selection that duplicates the function of an inspiration, only not as well.
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My choice for an APP on a build that does not have a self heal is usually Ice or Earth. Ice has Hibernate, providing a way to get both Health and Endurance. Plus, the Ice APP has two effective AoE damage powers and a decent single target blast. The Earth APP has the heal in Earth's Embrace, a great melee damage power in Seismic Smash, a very short range AoE damage power with a part-time stun in Fissure, and a slow ranged single target attack in Hurl Boulder. Both of these sets have s/l Defense based armors. If you plan on being in melee a lot, consider the Earth APP mostly for Siesmic Smash and Fissure.
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Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Three points:
Snowstorm is a toggle with terrific -recharge. It is an 'interrupt' power that messes with the embalmed zombies, the sky raider engineers, et. al. It is also -fly.
Slick, shields, sleet, benumb, heat loss, heck even infrigidate would make me feel like a contributor. When you can rinse them down every group with sleet, you have arrived.
Arctic Air has a BIG AoE around the caster. Don't worry about aggro. The more you affect the better the results for your team.
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HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
I have it, and its fully slotted, and has all the recharge it can take, but every time I click it, I wonder why.
Lewis
Is having so much endurance recovery that you almost can't run out for 90 seconds at a time not worth something to you? Especially when combined with an AoE -30% resistance in set that already gets an AoE with an additional -30% resistance. I just find it surprising.