Preferred pairing for Fire Melee, and why?
By
Bill Z Bubba,
Posted on: 2009-12-16 11:58 in Scrappers
Quote:
Unkillable against what? How is he solo in a 8/+2 Freak mission? How does he fare against Marauder or Shadowhunter AVs?
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
My main is Claws/Regen with almost 700% passive regen just running Integration and ~20% defense to all positions. He is nearly unkillable if I'm on my game, but very squishy if I'm not paying attention. My playstyle led to his death may times, but now that he's IOed out my playstyle makes him very difficult to kill.
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Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Quote:
CP is just a place holder for PP. When I did I would farm +0 x8 just for speed. I did solo Marauder, Nightstar, Dominatrix, but I don't recall soloing Shadow hunter.
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Originally Posted by Moonlighter
Does the build need Conserve Power, or is it a placeholder on the way to Phys Perf?
Can this build grind 8/+0, or 8/+2? What's your typical farming setting? Can this build take on typical AVs like Marauder, Shadowhunter, etc? |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Quote:
If you don't need CP I am surprised you didn't take FA instead of Tactics and free up a power slot.|
Originally Posted by Santorican
CP is just a place holder for PP. When I did I would farm +0 x8 just for speed. I did solo Marauder, Nightstar, Dominatrix, but I don't recall soloing Shadow hunter.
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Thanks for the info! (I guess you've doomed me to outfit my Regen build.
)
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Quote:
Solo in a +2/x8 Freak mission he's pretty damn solid. Nemesis are a pain for him, but that's just because of the Vengeance they cast. If I make sure to kill LTs last I'm okay usually. |
Originally Posted by Moonlighter
Unkillable against what? How is he solo in a 8/+2 Freak mission? How does he fare against Marauder or Shadowhunter AVs?
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He does ok versus Shadowhunter and Marauder. He can't solo them as AVs though because of the lethal resistance. It just takes too long to kill them and they wear him down. He can take their agro on a team though.
I seldom run missions higher than +2/x6. Mostly because that's about where his comfort zone is. He CAN run +2/x8, but I prefer not to.
A Claws/Regen can be built to do some crazy things, but mine isn't THAT tough. Iggy Kamikaze has one that did the RWZ Challenge using nothing but Swipe, which boggled my mind. I saw his build, it's a good one if you have 4-5 billion sitting around.
Like I said, a lot of it is knowing what I can and can't handle. A lot of AVs are beyond me (Marauder, Siege, Nightstar, anyone else with significant lethal resistance, and Anti-Matter)
You seem to be setting the bar awfully high. Seems as though you're approaching this with the attitude of "If I don't have the survivability and damage output of a softcapped Shield Defense toon I'm gimped"
When you compare everything to the best set, of course it's going to look weak in comparison.
Edit: If that sounded harsh, I apologize, that was not my intention. To sum it up, my regen performs acceptably for ME. If you find yourself unhappy with a regen's performance no matter how you build it, then maybe the set just isn't for you.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
It didn't sound harsh.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Solo in a +2/x8 Freak mission he's pretty damn solid. Nemesis are a pain for him, but that's just because of the Vengeance they cast. If I make sure to kill LTs last I'm okay usually.
He does ok versus Shadowhunter and Marauder. He can't solo them as AVs though because of the lethal resistance. It just takes too long to kill them and they wear him down. He can take their agro on a team though. I seldom run missions higher than +2/x6. Mostly because that's about where his comfort zone is. He CAN run +2/x8, but I prefer not to. A Claws/Regen can be built to do some crazy things, but mine isn't THAT tough. Iggy Kamikaze has one that did the RWZ Challenge using nothing but Swipe, which boggled my mind. I saw his build, it's a good one if you have 4-5 billion sitting around. Like I said, a lot of it is knowing what I can and can't handle. A lot of AVs are beyond me (Marauder, Siege, Nightstar, anyone else with significant lethal resistance, and Anti-Matter) You seem to be setting the bar awfully high. Seems as though you're approaching this with the attitude of "If I don't have the survivability and damage output of a softcapped Shield Defense toon I'm gimped" When you compare everything to the best set, of course it's going to look weak in comparison. Edit: If that sounded harsh, I apologize, that was not my intention. To sum it up, my regen performs acceptably for ME. If you find yourself unhappy with a regen's performance no matter how you build it, then maybe the set just isn't for you. |
Now, I am not just comparing to soft capped Shield Defense. I also do these things on my MA/SR and my Claws/Invuln. My Kat/Dark is 49 and now has around 20/35/29 so far (still building) without the PvP IO and that build is starting to do these things.
From my experience and Mid's, I can also see my DB/WP reaching those levels of survivability.
On the other hand I've tried both Spines/Regen and Dark/Regen and just couldn't compete on survivability. The Spines/Regen got 700 million in rares and purples, but it was early on when I was chasing recharge not defense. So before I spent weeks re-building him I am just trying to get an idea of whether it is worth it.
The only high level scrapper I haven't reached these performance levels on is my /Fire but that set is known to be squishy and I lost interest when I realized I just liked /Elec better for the play style. (Burn kind of annoys me.) My /Elec is just a baby scrapper though.
So it's not just /SD.
In my opinion right now, SD, SR, Invuln, WP, and Dark can reach these levels of performance without Parry and DA. /Fire and /Elec can not. I am trying to figure out which camp Regen is in. Although to be fair my /DA is a katana with DA. I will have to see on my MA/DA.
I have high hopes for my Katana/Elec but I am depending on DA to shore up melee defense.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Check out my thread on softcapping a BS/DA. I'm not the first to have done it, but as far as I know I did it much cheaper than anyone else has. It gives up some recharge and a little bit of accuracy. It does fine on +2s, and it is RWZ Challenge capable, but it has issues against Cimerorans and Nemess.
(Since you mentioned you have a Katana/Dark, and they are practically interchangable)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
Since when did fiery aura have problems with mez protection? Sure, it has no KB protection, but that is a problem that is easily fixed with IOs.|
Originally Posted by JWatt
I'd say FA, SD, or /Elec.
A Fire/Fire Scrapper is squishy, but puts forth a big amount of burst damage, and I also think it looks cool. Not the strongest, but not BAD. The holes in its mez protection are a problem. A Fire/Shield scrapper has better sustainable DPS with Against All Odds, probably even if you take the Damage Aura in the other sets out. It also gives you a great AoE attack in Shield Charge, defense that you can softcap (along with decent resistance), and really good mez protection. If you invest money into this build, you'll have a monster. The only potential issue is that it lacks a self-heal or endurance recovery power. A Fire/Elec Scrapper will have a damage aura, solid resistance and mez protection, a self heal/recovery click, a PBAoE endurance recovery power with a Tohit check, and an "Oh crap" button in Power Surge. Of the three, I'd eliminate the Fire/Fire. It's too weak compared to the others, sad as it makes me to say it. The order of secondaries listed by me, in my opinion, is /shield, /Elec, and /Fire in last place. |
I think most of the responses here are fairly accurate, but you aren't exactly comparing apples to apples here. Everyone knows that if you don't sink considerable resources into shield defense, it isn't quite a superb set. So if you are saying that SD is amazing with IOs, why not compare it to other builds with IOs. Namely, FA with IOs. Then you would have builds that are softcapped to s/l, tons of recharge, and of course, with KB protection.
FA isn't bad, but it just isn't for someone who is prone to /ragequit because he is on easy mode all of the time.
Don't forget that Fiery Embrace does wonders for fiery melee damage. Having both BU and FE is a great thing. Sure the build will be tight, but it will be active and challenging everytime you play it.
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
Fire Melee is best paired with what fits the concept!
Then you min/max the hell out of said concept! 
That's what I do. 
Which isn't always easy, when said concepts usually have Fly as the travel power.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Not knocking your concept at all, but the coolest thing I've seen is a fire/shield scrapper carrying that eyeball shield from the Shard while blowing fire from his FACE.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
My fm/sd scrapper uses that shield. Both primary and secondary are tinted dark green/black. Looks awesome.
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I'd have to put my vote out for Fire/SR. Its an awesomely fun build, that is quite powerful to boot. Softcapped defenses with a small recharge boost in a set that really lets you focus on dealing damage, and not mitigating damage, is a real boon to make you a crazy damage dealer. Going the Fire/SR/Body route as well on mine, good for defense, more regen/recovery, and added energy torrent is great for mowing down mobs.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Fire SR ET: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Sword -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(15), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Mako-Dam%(39)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def(5), DefBuff-I(5)
Level 2: Cremate -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(13), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Mako-Dam%(39)
Level 4: Agile -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(11), DefBuff-I(13)
Level 6: Focused Senses -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def(7), DefBuff-I(7)
Level 8: Breath of Fire -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(9), Posi-Dmg/Rng(15), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Dodge -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(17), DefBuff-I(17)
Level 18: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 20: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(21), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(21), Heal-I(34), RgnTis-Regen+(46)
Level 22: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(23), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(23), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(31)
Level 24: Fire Sword Circle -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(25), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(25), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(31), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 26: Incinerate -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(27), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(27), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), T'Death-Dam%(39)
Level 28: Lucky -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(29), DefBuff-I(29)
Level 30: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 32: Greater Fire Sword -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(33), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(33), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), T'Death-Dam%(40)
Level 35: Evasion -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(36), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), S'dpty-Def(46), S'dpty-EndRdx(48)
Level 38: Quickness -- Run-I(A)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(42), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(42), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(42), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(43), GSFC-Build%(43)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(45), Numna-Heal(45), EndMod-I(45), EndMod-I(46)
Level 47: Laser Beam Eyes -- Empty(A), Empty(48), Empty(48), Empty(50), Empty(50), Empty(50)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
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Set Bonus Totals:
- 13.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 13.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 13.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 13.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 13.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 13.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 13.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 13.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 5% Defense(Smashing)
- 5% Defense(Lethal)
- 3.44% Defense(Fire)
- 3.44% Defense(Cold)
- 5% Defense(Energy)
- 5% Defense(Negative)
- 10% Defense(Melee)
- 10% Defense(Ranged)
- 6.88% Defense(AoE)
- 21% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 43.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 5% FlySpeed
- 180.7 HP (13.5%) HitPoints
- 5% JumpHeight
- 5% JumpSpeed
- MezResist(Held) 12.1%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 12.1%
- 6.5% (0.11 End/sec) Recovery
- 86% (4.81 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 1.58% Resistance(Fire)
- 1.58% Resistance(Cold)
- 3.13% Resistance(Negative)
- 5% RunSpeed
Code:
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Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
FYI Mids is still bugged, and won't let you select energy torrent at 47 for some reason. That's not LBE, thats ET there, 5 positrons blast sans proc, and 1 recharge IO
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
Nice build. I typical abue Blessing of Zephyr more heavily, but the nice thing about this build is that it reminds me that with Phys Perf I can make a build without fitness. A couple questions.
Does the build need Conserve Power, or is it a placeholder on the way to Phys Perf?
Can this build grind 8/+0, or 8/+2? What's your typical farming setting?
Can this build take on typical AVs like Marauder, Shadowhunter, etc?
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563