Talk to me about Willpower


Biospark

 

Posted

I've been playing this game a month after quitting when Enhancement Diversification hit. Came back and I hear all of this stuff about willpower, and I want to understand the set, but after looking through the tanker, scrapper, and brute guides for it I don't really feel any better off except for slotting ideas than I did before.

I'm not looking for "give me a build to use" so much as I'm looking to understand why a build is good, or why it sucks. I've gotten alot of "this power should be slotted this way" information, but I haven't gotten the picture of how willpower fits together as a whole and functions, which is something I always have to do before I roll a set.

So my questions are as follows

1) What is willpower strong at and what is it weak at?

2) What is the best way to address or mitigate the negative aspects (like the alpha vunerability I've heard so much about)

3) If someone could post a build for Mids and explain it in detail, Id love you forever, preferably high end expensive ish build, with a mind towards maximixing strenghts

4) Aid self and willpower, genius idea or stupid idea?

I'm posting this here because, for better or worse, I hate the tanker class. The only tank I ever loved was my fire tanker, which they gutted one day long ago when they added a fear component to burn patches.


 

Posted

My opinion :

1/ Willpower is strong out of the box with SOs, and performs well against every kind of damage. The completely passive mitigation means defense isn't going to take away from your damage. It's relatively vulnerable to debuffs and very high burst damage.

2/ SoW is good for that. Active mitigation from your primary or epics can help ; AoE knockdowns in particular are fantastic tools to take the alpha. Inspirations are yet another option.

3/ You'd want to specify a primary. While there's some common grounds, WP builds can vary greatly based on primary.

4/ It's not a good idea. Aid Self takes away from your damage and active mitigation, and WP having already high regen you'd be getting a comparatively lower return from Aid Self than you would on other alts - and some already argue Aid Self isn't worth the damage loss on these other characters.


 

Posted

1) WP is a bit weak against alphas and debuffs. Especially Def Debuffs with enemies that have hard hitting attacks. This is because WP has no Debuff Resistances except for Regen Debuff.

2) Building for +HP and +Def would be ideal with WP. You already have truck loads of Regen and WP doesn't benefit from +Rech. That is not to say that +Rech does not benefit you, though, because all of the attack sets benefit from additional Recharge to allow you to use your best attacks more often.

3) Can do this later if you tell me what set you want paired with WP.

4) It might help you, but personally I don't see the need. WP can easily exceed 50 HP/sec regeneration making Aid Self quite superfluous. Also when you have no Def Debuff Res, the situations where you'd need Aid Self will have you being hit so often you probably won't get the chance to fire it off.


- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom

My Katana/Inv Guide

Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein

 

Posted

1) WP offers a combination of +Def, +Res and +Regen powers. If you add some power pools (most WPs include Tough, Weave and often Maneuvers and/or Combat Jumping) you'll get several layers of defense, which gives you a good survivability. Most powers come as toggles or passives making it an easy set, too.
Plus what the others said.

2) Add defense and HP. SoW is an option, but I was always a bit disappointed when I used it (in the end I respecced out of it).

3) I think Werner just posted a link to a BS/WP guide in a nearby thread.

4) Forget about Aid Self in WP. A power pool that gives you a +defense power is much better to increase survivability.


 

Posted

Just gonna add that one of the best things about willpower is its "set and forget" nature, just turn on your toggles and go, and it's very steady performance. The worst thing about it is when you find yourself in a situation where incoming damage exceeds your ability to regen it, you can sometimes know you're going to die and there's nothing you can really do about it save click inspirations madly, kill everything before you die, or run. That may not sound like such a bad situation but I just mention it because it's a very different mindset from, say, regen. With regen you can be in an impossible situation and survive if your "oh ****" powers cycle fast enough. With willpower, impossible situations are more rare but usually are impossible, if that makes any sense. ^_^



my lil RWZ Challenge vid

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritfox View Post
4) Aid self and willpower, genius idea or stupid idea?
I'm just going to take this one, since the others have been handled pretty well. Aid Self for WP (in PvE) is a poor option. There are several reasons for this:

*) The heal strength is based off your base hp. It is a 20% heal unenhanced, so it will always heal ~267.6 hp (unenhanced) even when you can have a max greater than 2000. In other words, it doesn't scale. (This is also why green inspirations are one of the worst for WP.)

*) Speaking of scaling, Tough/Weave is a much better combo to get for WP because of this. Mitigation in CoX scales nonlinearly. As you approach 45% def or 75%/90% res, each point increases your survivability more than the previous point. So you'll notice a big difference adding Tough/Weave onto your already decent res/def base. (It's also why lucks are better than greens most of the time. I only keep 1-3 greens for emergency situations where I'll die if I don't heal now.)

*) Unlike Tough/Weave, Aid Self is active, requiring you to slow down / stop attacking in order to use it. Considering the survivability it offers is equal / lower than Tough / Weave, I don't think it's worth the offense hit.


Note: My experience with WP comes from Tanks.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritfox View Post
I've been playing this game a month after quitting when Enhancement Diversification hit.
Welcome back! I quit for a few months myself after repeated nerfs issue after issue. Not only does that appear to be long since over, but there have been a number of buffs. To me, overall power levels feel about like they did before all the nerfs, just with nothing obviously broken, and a whole lot more balance, and a whole lot more interesting complexity to it all. I LOVE what's been done to the game since those days. I hope you will too once you get used to everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritfox View Post
1) What is willpower strong at and what is it weak at?
Willpower has good defense, good resistance, good hit points, and very good damage recovery.

Strengths:

Easy. Easy to build, easy to play. Nothing to click. It just fades into the background and keeps you alive. Your hit points generally move fairly slowly, giving you time to react with inspirations or changes in tactics, or time to simply keep smashing heads until everyone is down.

Good at surviving a big spike of damage, such as you'll find fighting large groups of uplevel enemies, Archvillains and the like.

Survivability ramps up in large groups. You "Rise to the Challenge".

More complete Status Protection than most sets.

You have to really work at it to give yourself any endurance problems past level 20.

Taunt aura. Enemies will glue to you, which is what you want for Rise to the Challenge to do its work.

Weaknesses:

Too easy. No personality. Boring at parties.

Almost no resistance to defense debuffs. That only matters against certain enemies, but there seem to be a lot of those enemies. Still, some is better than none, and you have a lot of other tools in your toolbox when debuffed.

With a mixture of defense against some types of damage, and resistance against other types of damage, you aren't really one inspiration away from god mode the way you can be with some sets. This can be fixed with IOs, and on high-end builds to the point of not needing inspirations, but that's likely just in the end game.

Said to be weak to the beta strike (not the alpha strike), though I haven't really experienced that. The idea is that it has enough defense, resistance and hit points to survive the alpha strike, but while it recovers rapidly, it doesn't have any spike healing to get it back to the point of surviving the next wave of attacks.

Taunt aura. On a team with no tank, you may find yourself the center of attention. That may be more incoming damage than you are prepared for (or it may not). Or if you WANTED a taunt aura to act like a tank, it's kind of a weak taunt aura, so people can peel aggro off of you.

Quote:
2) What is the best way to address or mitigate the negative aspects (like the alpha vulnerability I've heard so much about)
Well, let's see, three of the weaknesses were being more than one inspiration away from god mode, being weak to the beta strike, and potentially having a hard time dealing with your taunt aura's aggro. To address those in a leveling build, I'd focus on pool powers that buff your damage mitigation - powers that give you defense and resistance. Best among those would be the Fighting Pool for Tough and Weave. Flight Pool for Hover or Leaping Pool for Combat Jumping (my preference). When you can afford it, splurge on a Steadfast Protection +3% defense IO.

Not much you can do to give it more personality.

Quote:
3) If someone could post a build for Mids and explain it in detail, Id love you forever, preferably high end expensive ish build, with a mind towards maximixing strenghts
Obviously we'd want to know your primary, unless you to tell us what sort of things you like, and have us suggest some for you. I'm not too likely to post a build myself, as I bored of Willpower so don't have any even reasonably-current top end builds on my drive. There are lots of them out there, though, and we can probably point you at guides.

As far as what to maximize for survivability, I believe current consensus is to soft-cap most positional defenses (45% to smashing, lethal, fire, cold, energy and negative). After that, you probably want as many hit points as you can get. Then you can find a really nasty group of bad guys, stand in the middle of them, and go make a sandwich. It's not just tough; it's AFK tough.

Quote:
4) Aid self and willpower, genius idea or stupid idea?
You'd THINK it would be a great idea. What is Willpower obviously lacking? A self heal! But even though that seems self-evident, it's... kinda not true. Willpower is already huge in the damage recovery department. It has amazing regeneration. You'll get a lot more out of buffing your damage mitigation. Absolutely insane things have been done on Willpower without Aid Self, and I don't think any of the forum-regulars with Willpowers have used Aid Self.

It's not that Aid Self is bad... no, wait, Aid Self IS bad. It's takes forever, it's interruptible, you pull out a tricorder... I frickin' hate that power. I'll take it if absolutely required, but frankly, I just level up toons that are better off without it. Willpower is probably better off without it.

And we can look at it another way. Let's say you take Aid Self instead of some additional damage mitigation, specifically defense. Now it still takes a lot for Willpower to get in over its head, so we're talking about being surrounded by a large group of enemies all pounding on you. Now you want to hit Aid Self. Unfortunately, your defense is only so-so, particularly to smashing/lethal, which are the most common damage types in the game. So they're going to be hitting you the whole time. That makes it hard to get off an Aid Self without it being interrupted. So it MIGHT work and save you, or it MIGHT mean you just rooted yourself in the middle of a nasty pounding and got nothing for your effort, and now you're almost dead or dead. (Granted, this is theorycraft, as I've never taken Aid Self on a Willpower.)


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Now you want to hit Aid Self. Unfortunately, your defense is only so-so, particularly to smashing/lethal, which are the most common damage types in the game. So they're going to be hitting you the whole time. That makes it hard to get off an Aid Self without it being interrupted. So it MIGHT work and save you, or it MIGHT mean you just rooted yourself in the middle of a nasty pounding and got nothing for your effort, and now you're almost dead or dead. (Granted, this is theorycraft, as I've never taken Aid Self on a Willpower.)
That's pretty accurate. I have two softcapped scrappers with Aid Self who can use it pretty reliably in mid-fight, but I also have a trick arrow defender with Aid Self. And even though he typically applies an autohit -16% ToHit debuff to enemies at the start of a battle and has a few points of general-purpose defense, he can't reliably use Aid Self in mid-fight; it's as likely to get him killed as it is to heal him, unless I break line of sight. Mostly it's for healing up after a fight or to provide a small degree of stun protection.

I didn't take Aid Self on either my Kat/WP scrapper or my Claws/WP brute, and honestly I don't think it's a good idea to take it.


 

Posted

Back when I used aid self on my brute I had it slotted with two interrupt reduction IO's (as well as some heals), and that seemed to allow me to get it off pretty reliably in battle.

But I've since come to the conclusion that those slots can be used in much better ways. ^_^



my lil RWZ Challenge vid

 

Posted

Updating , I set up a Katana/WP. I've got a claws/sr brute and a fire/SD scrapper, so this one seemed logical and I like Katana's speed and lower end cost compared to broadsword.

For pools, I'm thinking fighting, possibly fitness, leaping (my default choice for anything melee's travel) and something else. Maybe leadership, maybe stealth. I've only got one hero in the 40s and its a troller, so I'm thinking I want kd or kb in my APP for waltzing in and smacking down an alpha. I had the idea of stealth and an Unbound leap stealth to combat jump into mobs and hit them with a power that stops them from attacking me for a second to break alphas, my claws brute is really loving shockwave as a way to walk up and smack enemies into a wall to keep them from nailing me at once, but then she's almost softcapped so it doesn't really matter for her.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritfox View Post
Updating , I set up a Katana/WP. I've got a claws/sr brute and a fire/SD scrapper, so this one seemed logical and I like Katana's speed and lower end cost compared to broadsword.

For pools, I'm thinking fighting, possibly fitness, leaping (my default choice for anything melee's travel) and something else. Maybe leadership, maybe stealth. I've only got one hero in the 40s and its a troller, so I'm thinking I want kd or kb in my APP for waltzing in and smacking down an alpha. I had the idea of stealth and an Unbound leap stealth to combat jump into mobs and hit them with a power that stops them from attacking me for a second to break alphas, my claws brute is really loving shockwave as a way to walk up and smack enemies into a wall to keep them from nailing me at once, but then she's almost softcapped so it doesn't really matter for her.

Katana - Willpower will be a blast to play. One of my first and favorite Scrappers back at launch was a Katana/INV and Willpower will match up very nicely with Katana.

The added defense from DA will provide an added dimension to your mitigation very early in your career to take you down the road to IOs. Additionally the AoEs from Katana will make it easier to collapse spawns into you for RttC to boost your survival. Very Solid pairing. My pool choices are Fitness (I love having Fast Recovery AND Stamina), Fighting, Leaping and Stealth.

My current main Scrapper is MA/WP and he has times when he gets over his head and needs to adjust tactics or use inspies, but for the most part he is the most durable melee character I have played. Those situations where I would be getting hurt, I bet your Kat/WP would be on cruise control. Good Luck.


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

Posted

So now I've worked up a mids build, and would love suggestions.

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I went for a relatively purpleless build. I threw in one LotG which may or may not ever be placed, maybe when I hit 50 I'll just blow whatever merits I have on it. I put all the regen/recovery uniques in, which also may or may not be slotted.

My questions now are more katana related, as in what's a normal Katana rotation? Should I just be rotating through my ST attacks, or is there a preferred set? I figured the +def and build up were logical, and then maybe just the two highest ST attacks I've got.

Check it out, give me feedback on my slotting and such. Like, Ive got two defense IOs in the +def power, are those needed or should I put those slots somewhere else, etc etc. Also, power choice order, as this is the build I'll be leveling by.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritfox View Post
My questions now are more katana related, as in what's a normal Katana rotation? Should I just be rotating through my ST attacks, or is there a preferred set?
DPS chain.: GD>GC------>SD>GC
1 DA chain: GD>GC------>SD>GC>DA>GC
2 DA chain: GD>GC>DA>GC>SD>GC>DA>GC


In other words, it's just a matter of inserting one or two DA>GC into the DPS chain as necessary for defense. However, for Willpower, since it doesn't benefit from recharge, and since it does benefit from defense, I'd probably forget about achieving the DPS chain.

Also, you don't have enough recharge to run ANY of those chains at the moment. One problem is Gambler's Cut, which needs to recharge in 1.58 seconds. That could be easily solved with a sixth slot, but you should really have an Achilles' Heel proc in that sixth slot, so solving it will be at least a little more complicated.

I'd probably recommend the 1 DA chain most of the time. As you have Divine Avalanche slotted, one will get you to the soft cap. However, you also don't have enough recharge on Golden Dragonfly to pull that off. You need to recharge in 5.94 seconds, and are at 7.43 seconds. One recharge IO would get you there, though I'm not specifically saying that that's your best slotting option.

When defense debuffed, you should then be able to smoothly transition into the 2 DA chain, but spend most of your time with just 1 DA to avoid losing TOO much DPS.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
DPS chain.: GD>GC------>SD>GC
1 DA chain: GD>GC------>SD>GC>DA>GC
2 DA chain: GD>GC>DA>GC>SD>GC>DA>GC


In other words, it's just a matter of inserting one or two DA>GC into the DPS chain as necessary for defense. However, for Willpower, since it doesn't benefit from recharge, and since it does benefit from defense, I'd probably forget about achieving the DPS chain.

Also, you don't have enough recharge to run ANY of those chains at the moment. One problem is Gambler's Cut, which needs to recharge in 1.58 seconds. That could be easily solved with a sixth slot, but you should really have an Achilles' Heel proc in that sixth slot, so solving it will be at least a little more complicated.

I'd probably recommend the 1 DA chain most of the time. As you have Divine Avalanche slotted, one will get you to the soft cap. However, you also don't have enough recharge on Golden Dragonfly to pull that off. You need to recharge in 5.94 seconds, and are at 7.43 seconds. One recharge IO would get you there, though I'm not specifically saying that that's your best slotting option.

When defense debuffed, you should then be able to smoothly transition into the 2 DA chain, but spend most of your time with just 1 DA to avoid losing TOO much DPS.
I'm not too worried about achieving a perfect zero lag DPS chain, its more of a "which are the powers I want to be using". Though I'm looking into your suggestions. For gamblers cut I replaced an acc/damage with damage/recharge which got its recharge down to where you said. I took a slot out of tough and put it into GD and just added a recharge, getting it where you said it should be. I could probable take a taunt slot out of RTTC and put it somewhere if I needed to. I took one of the defensive slots out of DA and I'm at 44.9 melee defense with one application, so I now have the resistance proc in GC as well.

Just took some reshuffling. Thanks much =D

::Edit::

Also, just to make sure, I did fine with the willpower powers? I've not ever built a WP toon either, so I wanted to make sure I did what was needed on it. I used alot of generic IOs for it, since for many I only need to enhance one or two aspects.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritfox View Post
Also, just to make sure, I did fine with the willpower powers? I've not ever built a WP toon either, so I wanted to make sure I did what was needed on it. I used alot of generic IOs for it, since for many I only need to enhance one or two aspects.
I was just commenting on the primary. Didn't check the secondary, and have company at the moment, but I wouldn't want you to be misled by what I didn't say in my comments.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritfox View Post
I'm not too worried about achieving a perfect zero lag DPS chain, its more of a "which are the powers I want to be using". Though I'm looking into your suggestions. For gamblers cut I replaced an acc/damage with damage/recharge which got its recharge down to where you said. I took a slot out of tough and put it into GD and just added a recharge, getting it where you said it should be. I could probable take a taunt slot out of RTTC and put it somewhere if I needed to. I took one of the defensive slots out of DA and I'm at 44.9 melee defense with one application, so I now have the resistance proc in GC as well.

Just took some reshuffling. Thanks much =D

::Edit::

Also, just to make sure, I did fine with the willpower powers? I've not ever built a WP toon either, so I wanted to make sure I did what was needed on it. I used alot of generic IOs for it, since for many I only need to enhance one or two aspects.
The Numina Proc benefits from the enhancement that is in the power, so putting it in fast healing instead of health, which you have unslotted for +heal enhancement, will double it's effectiveness. I'd also trade out those 2 lvl 50 heal IO's for a Numina heal, and a Numina Heal/End, both level 35+. Those plus 1 level 50 heal IO will get you to ~96% heal enhancement, as well as giving you a 12% regen bonus and a +HP bonus.

My favorite slotting for RttC is DW Heal, DW Heal/End, and a Heal IO, all level 50. As willpower, you can afford to skimp on end reduction a little bit in your toggles, and 26% end reduction is still decent.

An LotG 7.5 in heightened senses will probably help you a little bit with your primary chain that you were discussing with Werner.

That Panacea last I heard is pretty expensive, and you could probably get an entire purple set. Not sure which one you would want, just might help you with the recharge.

Looks pretty solid. It isn't exactly how I'd build a willpower, but it still looks good other than the things I mentioned.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Fane View Post
The Numina Proc benefits from the enhancement that is in the power, so putting it in fast healing instead of health, which you have unslotted for +heal enhancement, will double it's effectiveness. I'd also trade out those 2 lvl 50 heal IO's for a Numina heal, and a Numina Heal/End, both level 35+. Those plus 1 level 50 heal IO will get you to ~96% heal enhancement, as well as giving you a 12% regen bonus and a +HP bonus.

My favorite slotting for RttC is DW Heal, DW Heal/End, and a Heal IO, all level 50. As willpower, you can afford to skimp on end reduction a little bit in your toggles, and 26% end reduction is still decent.

An LotG 7.5 in heightened senses will probably help you a little bit with your primary chain that you were discussing with Werner.

That Panacea last I heard is pretty expensive, and you could probably get an entire purple set. Not sure which one you would want, just might help you with the recharge.

Looks pretty solid. It isn't exactly how I'd build a willpower, but it still looks good other than the things I mentioned.
Alright. Made the changes you mentioned, I like them thusfar. 96 hps regen with full RTTC, I took a taunt out of it and put it into fast healing, and made the changes. Looked up Panacea, and you're right, not going anywhere near that until the day long in the future when I might have billions and several well built characters. Replaced it with regen tissue, which I should be able to farm the merits for pretty easily.

Already got 3 LotG's in the build, not bothering with a 4th, those will definitely be the last additions. I've got the numbers he recommended for recharge with this setup.

Here's the build with all the changes discussed so far, just in case anyone else spots any issues they'd like to tell me about. Thanks very much to everyone who helped.

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Posted

Oh yeah, definitely don't get any more LotG's than you need, especially with a secondary like willpower. If you do decide to put that in heightened senses, putting some of the other LotG enhancers in there wouldn't be a bad idea for its set bonuses, which are also additional regen and +HP. Your milage may vary though, enhancers like those can be a tad on the expensive side.

Looks like it will rock 95% of the PvE content for sure.

Some other food for thought, Getting a kismet +accuracy enhancer in a defense power that you can afford will give you +6% tohit. I notice you have 41% global acc already, so you probably won't need it, but it's just something to think about when you start fighting +6's like werner does, as it definitely looks like you could, if that strikes your fancy. *wink*

I would definitely say that willpower, when combined with DA for melee defense, or kinetic combats for smashing and lethal defense, is one of the most solid secondaries for scrappers, despite some of it's other short comings, like lack of defense debuff resistance.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Fane View Post
I would definitely say that willpower, when combined with DA for melee defense, or kinetic combats for smashing and lethal defense, is one of the most solid secondaries for scrappers, despite some of it's other short comings, like lack of defense debuff resistance.

I could swear that it has some defense debuff resistance somewhere, 60% iirc, but will have to double check in game.


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

Posted

17.3 it looks like

Might not be a good idea to have it at 60%


 

Posted

17.3 is almost as good as nothing, considering the size of defense debuffs that most mobs wield. Usually 7.5% per hit on most sharp weapons and guns, 10 - 20% on the specialized attacks like radiation and stone.


 

Posted

Agreed..

So maybe they should just take it off?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Fane View Post
17.3 is almost as good as nothing, considering the size of defense debuffs that most mobs wield. Usually 7.5% per hit on most sharp weapons and guns, 10 - 20% on the specialized attacks like radiation and stone.
Yeah, for some reason MIDs is showing 60% on Heightened Senses, but its 17% in game.
Too bad really, might as well be 0%


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF