Defenders in PVP - Dev Response - Thanks Castle
By
Alpha_Zulu,
Posted on: 2009-12-11 15:52 in Everything about PvP
Good ****
+1 for BB
Hooray, I might be able to respec my Rad/Psi into an I13-compliant build that doesn't totally suck (he's got phase, but nowhere to even slot a +percep IO so he's completely blind).
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Awesome.
Shenanigans
LotD - JaL - POWT/SMD - SoCo - AJs
That is cool. Wonder if that means other disparities are being dealt with at the same time like the lack of physical perfection/conserve power for brutes.
Be well, people of CoH.
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well, i don't think that's a pvp issue.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
That is cool. Wonder if that means other disparities are being dealt with at the same time like the lack of physical perfection/conserve power for brutes.
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if anything, the lack of fossilize (as part of the tank-blaster attack chain) in brutes is a bigger issue. still, this is countered by the fact that brutes have access to web envelope which in turn makes them more viable than tanks in arena matches.
Hope Sonic becomes useful. Started leveling my Sonic/Rad fender in i12 with pvp in mind but then came i13.
Give us a "no base resistances" option and make the cage last longer than 4 seconds and there's another problem solved.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Hey People. 
Quote:
as a sole move, giving us no base resistances creates a lot of issues.|
Originally Posted by macskull
Give us a "no base resistances" option and make the cage last longer than 4 seconds and there's another problem solved.
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first, yeah the damage stuff goes nuts. i can three shot fire scrappers if they have no base resists on no dr matches with my fire/elec if my procs go off (basically warned the person, yet he insisted).
so yeah. how do we fix that?
dr on damage needs to remain an option. i cannot three shot a scrapper with shields off if i pop reds under freedom's standard rules since DR curves down damage to the point where anything past a 2 reds and BU is wasted outside of a team situation.
if we get a no dr resists option, it needs to be separate from the standard settings and the dr curve on resists needs to be increased. in other words, we do not need base resists nor dr caps on resists. we do need DR caps on damage in order to account for the damage changes from i13.
the other options would be for the devs to look at outliers such as shout, thunderstrike, tf and every other 2.5s+ animation which creates crazy burst potential, but i cannot back this. this is the easy way out.
so the real questions are:
how do we prevent scrappers and people without base resists from getting two shot in no-dr matches outside of team situations by blasters and doms with huge damage bonuses?
how do we make sonics and other resistance buffing toons viable without breaking 1v1 situations (which the devs are obviously focused on)?
can we get a "duel setting" in which DR on damage is maintained, and other dr caps and base resists are removed?
can we get a "team vs. team" setting where DR on damage is not present, nor are there any bases resists or any of the DR caps?
needless to say, these settings would also be TS off and Heal Suppression Off. I dared the devs to datamine how many matches are run this way vs. with standard settings and tell me that it's not a significant portion of matches (especially when looking at team vs. team matches).
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best mf TA in RV is back.
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Originally Posted by Artifice Arrow
Hey People.
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Originally Posted by black_barrier
best mf TA in RV is back.
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lol! It's been a while but I'm looking to get my "Plink Plink Plink" back on. I'm running the free trial right now, until I can get up and running. Ugh, my SG is gone, so many changes.....etc etc....
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I've been mostly playing my gimp night widow recently, because I actually found a build that does well. Yeah, on a widow. Not joking.|
Originally Posted by black_barrier
fossilize
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Anyway, last night I played my tank for the first time in a while, and good lord fossilize is retarded lol. You kinda lose track of how absurd some things are when you use them all the time. If you take a break from them to play gimp toons, they really start to stand out lol.
It's still hard to imagine the logic behind it.......................but we can try...
Developer 1: "Hey uhhh....it looks like an attack with 80 foot range is doing more damage than knockout blow....are you sure that thi..."
Big Dog: "Yes, great."
Developer 2: "Hey it's also a hold, and does -defense, which KoB doesn't do....which means it's a better attack in every way...maybe we shou...."
Big Dog: "Perfect. Leave it that way."
Developer 1: "Well ok. I guess it's ok. Oh wait, it also completely goes against our new rule of long activation time = more damage. It has like a 1 second activation, compared to KoB's ~3 seconds. Shouldn't we at least be consistent when we completely redesign the game?"
Big Dog: "You're fired."
Developer 2: "Thank you for the promotion sir. The changes are being programmed as we speak. Last question. What should we tell the PvP'ers?"
Big Dog: "Nothing. Let's ignore them completely for roughly one year. If any are left after that, we'll deal with it then. Now on to important stuff. How's the progress on the moving dummies in the warzone?"
Yay! .. yeah DF disbanded because it was getting empty and santo didnt want some random to be in charge since he, krypto and the others left. Still need to get you to dump fly though.
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Or you could run with DR on and everything else off. That way you don't have to worry about popping a zillion reds and three-shotting things, squishies still have the resistance cap of around 45%, but you'd get mileage out of Sonic and Therm shields.
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Originally Posted by black_barrier
as a sole move, giving us no base resistances creates a lot of issues.
first, yeah the damage stuff goes nuts. i can three shot fire scrappers if they have no base resists on no dr matches with my fire/elec if my procs go off (basically warned the person, yet he insisted). so yeah. how do we fix that? dr on damage needs to remain an option. i cannot three shot a scrapper with shields off if i pop reds under freedom's standard rules since DR curves down damage to the point where anything past a 2 reds and BU is wasted outside of a team situation. if we get a no dr resists option, it needs to be separate from the standard settings and the dr curve on resists needs to be increased. in other words, we do not need base resists nor dr caps on resists. we do need DR caps on damage in order to account for the damage changes from i13. the other options would be for the devs to look at outliers such as shout, thunderstrike, tf and every other 2.5s+ animation which creates crazy burst potential, but i cannot back this. this is the easy way out. so the real questions are: how do we prevent scrappers and people without base resists from getting two shot in no-dr matches outside of team situations by blasters and doms with huge damage bonuses? how do we make sonics and other resistance buffing toons viable without breaking 1v1 situations (which the devs are obviously focused on)? can we get a "duel setting" in which DR on damage is maintained, and other dr caps and base resists are removed? can we get a "team vs. team" setting where DR on damage is not present, nor are there any bases resists or any of the DR caps? needless to say, these settings would also be TS off and Heal Suppression Off. I dared the devs to datamine how many matches are run this way vs. with standard settings and tell me that it's not a significant portion of matches (especially when looking at team vs. team matches). |
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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That stinks, it was a fun SG. So there's no one else from DF that still plays? Or is it just you? I'd like to get back into PvP, but from what I'm hearing, it's going to be murder to be fully equipped like I was before, and with movement suppression I might have to dump fly now.
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Originally Posted by Musey
Yay! .. yeah DF disbanded because it was getting empty and santo didnt want some random to be in charge since he, krypto and the others left. Still need to get you to dump fly though.
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Fly+tp can still work. Just hard to team with normal PvP'ers.....hard to keep up with them. But solo it can do really well.
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45% is too low.|
Originally Posted by macskull
Or you could run with DR on and everything else off. That way you don't have to worry about popping a zillion reds and three-shotting things, squishies still have the resistance cap of around 45%, but you'd get mileage out of Sonic and Therm shields.
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far too low. it's the reason why well-built blasters destroy squishies under the current system (-end doesn't count, so lets ignore that). you can no longer counter them by capping your resists and letting your debuffs do the heavy work as in i12.
back then, my ice/psi would beat fire/ems by hitting 3 oranges, and laying out all the slows and drain psyche on them. that is impossible now.
the dr curve on resists needs to be loosened. simply doing that, and then removing the base resists will result in better team matches. this should also work nicely in 1v1s too.
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Fly is okay if you tie it with another travel power (usually Super Speed, sometimes Teleport). Like Supermax said it's not going to help you keep up with most teams in a zone though.
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Originally Posted by Artifice Arrow
That stinks, it was a fun SG. So there's no one else from DF that still plays? Or is it just you? I'd like to get back into PvP, but from what I'm hearing, it's going to be murder to be fully equipped like I was before, and with movement suppression I might have to dump fly now.
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
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Originally Posted by black_barrier as a sole move, giving us no base resistances creates a lot of issues. first, yeah the damage stuff goes nuts. i can three shot fire scrappers if they have no base resists on no dr matches with my fire/elec if my procs go off (basically warned the person, yet he insisted). so yeah. how do we fix that? dr on damage needs to remain an option. i cannot three shot a scrapper with shields off if i pop reds under freedom's standard rules since DR curves down damage to the point where anything past a 2 reds and BU is wasted outside of a team situation. if we get a no dr resists option, it needs to be separate from the standard settings and the dr curve on resists needs to be increased. in other words, we do not need base resists nor dr caps on resists. we do need DR caps on damage in order to account for the damage changes from i13. the other options would be for the devs to look at outliers such as shout, thunderstrike, tf and every other 2.5s+ animation which creates crazy burst potential, but i cannot back this. this is the easy way out. so the real questions are: how do we prevent scrappers and people without base resists from getting two shot in no-dr matches outside of team situations by blasters and doms with huge damage bonuses? how do we make sonics and other resistance buffing toons viable without breaking 1v1 situations (which the devs are obviously focused on)? can we get a "duel setting" in which DR on damage is maintained, and other dr caps and base resists are removed? can we get a "team vs. team" setting where DR on damage is not present, nor are there any bases resists or any of the DR caps? needless to say, these settings would also be TS off and Heal Suppression Off. I dared the devs to datamine how many matches are run this way vs. with standard settings and tell me that it's not a significant portion of matches (especially when looking at team vs. team matches). |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by macskull
Or you could run with DR on and everything else off. That way you don't have to worry about popping a zillion reds and three-shotting things, squishies still have the resistance cap of around 45%, but you'd get mileage out of Sonic and Therm shields.
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I'm a genius i know :P j/k
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Yeah I cant dont think anyone else plays. It will be a ***** to get all the goodies now as the market is just way too retarded at the moment. You definitely need to get rid of fly now.
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Originally Posted by Artifice Arrow
That stinks, it was a fun SG. So there's no one else from DF that still plays? Or is it just you? I'd like to get back into PvP, but from what I'm hearing, it's going to be murder to be fully equipped like I was before, and with movement suppression I might have to dump fly now.
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Remove the base damage resistance and bring back the old damage code.
Problem solved. You now have to bring buffers who do stuff instead of adding 3% resistance to you.
Hey, so I pm'd the man today and here's what I got:
Definitely good news.
Guess I'm not deleting my Cold/Psi.
Development of Q:
There are three cornerstones to a good PVP toon: Heal, Perception and Phase. This has always been the case and still remains so, with the importance of a heal having been somewhat diminished by the introduction of heal suppression. Corruptor EPPs get access to a phase power (hibernate), and perception (focused acc). Dominators and Controllers get access to a phase power (hibernate), and they can get perception from leadership. Scrappers, Tanks and Brutes can get perception from focused acc too. At this point there is no single reason to roll a defender in pvp instead of a Controller or Corruptor.
Case examples:
Cold/Sonic Def vs. Sonic/Cold Corr - A corr will always be able to negate any lingering debuff by hitting hibernate in a team match. For a cold/sonic to do the same, it must take phase and sacrifice perception. A corr can just fit in leadership. Add in scourge and you can make the argument that damage on a corruptor will spike through and over that of a defender.
Ice/Cold Troller vs. Cold/Ice Defender - Leadership and higher damage with containment on behalf of the troller.
Healing can be gained through simply packing greens and with heal decay on, the case for this is even stronger, since you only want to heal oh so many times throughout a match.