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I have tried a little with my DB stalker and this is what i noticed:|
Originally Posted by Auriyas
I'm not looking for the most "uber" which is best in PvP blah blah... I'm just new to the Stalker type and I'm torn between Ninja Blade vs Dual Blades. I guess my question is what are pro's and con's of these two?
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Power up is the only combo you have time to fire off and taht is if you can AS.
1k cuts and Vengeful does damage with procs but with not much return.
I read about a DB stalker who did power up, shark with some success but havent tried it myself.
I've played both, and still running my NB stalker, here's what I've gathered for info:
DB: (pros)- snazzy-looking moves, AS looks amazing, combo system, very quick damage, good aoe.
(cons)- where each powerset has their own secondary effect, DB has a different secondary effect for each combo, however, you'll have to pick up every move in the set to get all the combos, which might make it a tight build, and you also have to land each move in any combo you perform in order to get the effect. Miss one, no effect...
NB: (pros)- secondary is -def, so things are easier to kill, Divine avalanche boosts your own def, and stacks well when hasten is on, quick-cycling moves like DB, AS looks just as cool.
(cons)- not as much aoe, moves don't look as flashy as DB.
All in all, my vote would be for NB, as the secondary effect is more reliable, and thus makes the set more survivable. I had 2 stalkers, one DB and one NB. The DB wound up getting deleted and I hit lvl 25 today on the NB. But, it's all about fun, my best suggestion would be to make one for each, play each up to lvl 10 and make your decision from there. Hope it helps! If I missed anything, hopefully someone will fill in the blanks. =)
Oh i thought this was about the sets in PvP. Sorry.,
I think the deciding factor is which secondary set you'll be choosing. For Dual Blades to work at peak efficiency, you will want to pick all the powers for the combos. The problem with this is tight builds, but there are some very loose secondaries to go with that. My DB/EnA stalker has no problems fitting all nine attacks into the build, due to Energy Aura's utility powers, which I don't really need. Dark Armor also has some utility powers which could be skip-able (correct me on that if I'm wrong). Other sets like Super Reflexes, however, are not good, as the powerset also works best with all nine power choices.
So, it basically depends on your secondary. For a loose secondary, pick Dual Blades. For a tight secondary, choose Ninja Blade.
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Ninja Blade, hands down. Dual Blades looks flashy but for a Stalker that's about all it's got going for it, as the combos are weird for the Stalker version and in some cases make no sense at all (you get your +dam combo after AS? What?).
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So you can tear up the rest of the spawn with 1k crits.
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Originally Posted by macskull
Ninja Blade, hands down. Dual Blades looks flashy but for a Stalker that's about all it's got going for it, as the combos are weird for the Stalker version and in some cases make no sense at all (you get your +dam combo after AS? What?).
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The Empower combo is specifically to boost damage for *after* AS scrapping. That's why it last 20sec (instead of 10sec like the others). Also, if you think about it, you're getting +dmg for your upcomming critical strike (because you just used placate). It makes sense.|
Originally Posted by macskull
Ninja Blade, hands down. Dual Blades looks flashy but for a Stalker that's about all it's got going for it, as the combos are weird for the Stalker version and in some cases make no sense at all (you get your +dam combo after AS? What?).
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What doesn't make sense, to me, is linking Sweep to BU and AS when BU and AS is the start of another combo.
Something like AS > Sweeping > Ablating perhaps? So while BU is recharging, you can do the Sweep combo instead?
But besides all that, the combos work decently well and yet don't impose on personal style/choice. You can choose to get the combos or ignore them. AS gives you the ST burst that Dual Blades lacks for other melees, and 1kCuts from hide gives you AoE that most stalkers lack from their primary.
Offering my opinion on what the OP should choose: Ninja Blade also has +def as it's utility. If you pick a secondary that will greatly benefit from it, pick that. If you have a secondary that is already defense focused, it's more of a toss up. Sure, everyone benefits from +def but sets that lack any (Elec Armor, Regen, Dark Armor) or has other things to stack with it (Willpower) will benefit more. The defense secondaries (Energy Aura, Ninjutsu, Super Reflexes) would probably benefit more from the amount of knockdown from Dual Blades.
Ninja Blade's novelty is that it is uneccesarily hard to kill. If you have a +DEF secondary, you'll be capped all the time. If you don't, you'll be capped much of the time. It's what makes my NB/Reg Stalker effectively unkillable by anything that can't override his mez defenses or has no -rech. It also has high magnitude knockdown, to keep bosses down as often as not, or more with a high-recharge build. It is also reasonably damaging, and very damaging if you can use Golden Dragonfly just right.
Dual Blades can do more damage. It's awkward to use, though, and unfortunately, feels it. It also has little to offer in the way of utility unless you build it for knockdown.
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Being able to sweep all the foes standing around after you've just gutted one of them adds to a squishy stalker's survivability.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
What doesn't make sense, to me, is linking Sweep to BU and AS when BU and AS is the start of another combo.
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BU+AS=Target dead (or nearly so), but also="Everyone's after me!", so a Sweep right then will finish off the first target if he's not dead yet (or get him that much closer) and protect you from incoming attacks for a few more seconds.
Having BU and AS as part of another combo seems to me to help you out if you miss your Sweep by missing with Ablative - you get the consolation prize of Empower by pulling Placate, which cannot miss (assuming I have all the orders of the combos right in my head).
I done both.
Ninja Blade Pros:
Sexy as hell
Divine Avalanche for the early levels till you can soft cap without it.
Cons
Piss poor damage till 26. You will heavily be relying on AS just to kill stuff till then.
Dual Blades
Also sexy as hell.
Best looking AS.
Decent AoE if you know how to leverage criticals. Build up + 1k cuts from hide = group assasin strike on most minions.
You can do some cool things with the -resistance proc when you do one of the combos.
Good damage by lvl 18.
Cons
Combos have longer recharge than the other ATs.
No skippable powers if you want all the combos and be a good stalker.
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Yeah, but with the new demoralizing effect (introduced after DBs), you can get away without the Sweep following right after. I mean, what do the *other* melee sets do without sweep to follow their AS?|
Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5
Being able to sweep all the foes standing around after you've just gutted one of them adds to a squishy stalker's survivability.
BU+AS=Target dead (or nearly so), but also="Everyone's after me!", so a Sweep right then will finish off the first target if he's not dead yet (or get him that much closer) and protect you from incoming attacks for a few more seconds. Having BU and AS as part of another combo seems to me to help you out if you miss your Sweep by missing with Ablative - you get the consolation prize of Empower by pulling Placate, which cannot miss (assuming I have all the orders of the combos right in my head). |
I just think it would have been better to unlink sweep from at least BU which recharges too slow to use as often...unless, of course, Sweep on stalkers does naturally more damage than the other ATs (not counting dmg buffs from BF/BU). Does it? I don't recall.
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If I recall, the demoralization effect doesn't happen every time; slotting for ACC (besides being needed in an attack anyways) means the Sweep is more likely to happen than the fear. |
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Yeah, but with the new demoralizing effect (introduced after DBs), you can get away without the Sweep following right after. I mean, what do the *other* melee sets do without sweep to follow their AS?
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And what do other melee sets do without Sweep? They get hit a lot more often and sometimes die.
What they do is Placate one of the remaining foes, but then (probably) have to deal with whoever else got aggroed. Or they can run. Sweep is just one of those neat things this power set has over others, while others have their own things that DB doesn't. I believe it was designed with scrapping in mind and this is a good example of that.Quote:
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
I just think it would have been better to unlink sweep from at least BU which recharges too slow to use as often...unless, of course, Sweep on stalkers does naturally more damage than the other ATs (not counting dmg buffs from BF/BU). Does it? I don't recall.
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Well, the other sets certainly don't die or run away. My Elec/Regen can attest to that.|
Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5
If I recall, the demoralization effect doesn't happen every time; slotting for ACC (besides being needed in an attack anyways) means the Sweep is more likely to happen than the fear.
And what do other melee sets do without Sweep? They get hit a lot more often and sometimes die. What they do is Placate one of the remaining foes, but then (probably) have to deal with whoever else got aggroed. Or they can run. Sweep is just one of those neat things this power set has over others, while others have their own things that DB doesn't. I believe it was designed with scrapping in mind and this is a good example of that. |
And the demoralize effect happens every time the target of an AS survives, that being a 25% chance of a mag4 fear (so will affect bosses) *and* an unresistable ToHit debuff to all foes in range. Basically, it will dampen the alpha strike that results after an AS, often enough to survive with your passive mitigation.
Basically, if you couldn't survive the aftershock of an AS with just demoralize, chances are you won't survive long even after sweep. Personally, I find sweep helps my team survive moreso than it helps me. IMO, sweep is just a nice source of AoE dmg since if Ablating hits its target, ever other foe is auto-hit by sweep.
Then comes the tactic of not using BU before AS. Sometimes, you don't want to kill the target (so demoralize will take effect) so you might hold off BU when used on a nearly dead Boss or a LT you know you'll take out with more than just AS. So at times, you're at odds with using sweep or getting demoralize.
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Please note my use of "|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Well, the other sets certainly don't die or run away. My Elec/Regen can attest to that.
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" after that statement.Quote:
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
Basically, if you couldn't survive the aftershock of an AS with just demoralize, chances are you won't survive long even after sweep. Personally, I find sweep helps my team survive moreso than it helps me. IMO, sweep is just a nice source of AoE dmg since if Ablating hits its target, ever other foe is auto-hit by sweep.
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At this point I think this is just a differing of playstyles - I like Sweep and think it's an important part of DB, you don't seem to as much.
It's not that I don't like Sweep, it's just I don't think any of the combos are particularly *important* to DBs. They're *nice bonuses* but the set doesn't hinge on them. And I think sweep would have been more useful with another combo of attacks. Don't get me wrong, I still use it, but having to choose between empower, sweep and sometimes demoralize doesn't seem cool.
I'm not looking for the most "uber" which is best in PvP blah blah... I'm just new to the Stalker type and I'm torn between Ninja Blade vs Dual Blades. I guess my question is what are pro's and con's of these two?