If Scrapper Death Shroud taunted, my life would be complete and I could die happy.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
What about Spines' Quills?
Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.
I can't comment on Quills since we don't share that power with our Tanker/Brute cousins, and since some Scrapper builds are able to get 2 damage auras (which would result in +600% taunt, +300% per aura), that would overshadow the aggro-managing abilities of the aforementioned ATs, which is not the intention of my original suggestion
I believe when the game released, only Invincibility, even for tankers, had a Taunt effect. When they added gauntlet in Issue 3, they added a Taunt effect to the other tanker auras.
I believe the Taunt effect that gets translated to scrappers is only in powers that provide a direct mitigation benefit to the scrapper. That seems to be the design principle that guides the devs, based on what we have seen.
I believe this is why the damage auras (and Evasion) for scrappers do not Taunt.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
Yes that is a correct description of the current situation, however it doesn't answer the reason why Scrapper damage auras don't have a (much needed, IMO) taunt component. The functionality of these powers basicly call for it, as they need the enemies to stay within melee range for their intended function to work properly (aka dealing damage)
|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I believe the Taunt effect that gets translated to scrappers is only in powers that provide a direct mitigation benefit to the scrapper. That seems to be the design principle that guides the devs, based on what we have seen.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I believe the Taunt effect that gets translated to scrappers is only in powers that provide a direct mitigation benefit to the scrapper. That seems to be the design principle that guides the devs, based on what we have seen.
|
Except for OG and CoF
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
 |
Any other /sign's on this? if the Scrapper community is vocal enough on this issue maybe the devs will take this suggestion seriously and we can be happy for the rest of our lives
Quote:
Both of those powers already tend to keep enemies from leaving the area.|
Originally Posted by JamMasterJMS
Except for OG and CoF
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Silverado
Yes that is a correct description of the current situation, however it doesn't answer the reason why Scrapper damage auras don't have a (much needed, IMO) taunt component. The functionality of these powers basicly call for it, as they need the enemies to stay within melee range for their intended function to work properly (aka dealing damage)
|
It certainly could be argued to add taunt to these powers (and Evasion). However, I like that the AI has some more control vs. my Claws/Elec scrapper and I also like that some sets have this taunt advantage that other sets do not.
Elec armor can manipulate the AI by draining enemy endurance (and I imigine LR can cause panic as well). Fiery can manipulate the AI very well with Burn. DA of course has OG and CoF as controls, so they don't really need still more enemy manipulation techniques, IMO.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
I probably wouldn't ask for /signing because that would make this a petition thread and just get it deleted. (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/annou...php?f=565&a=17)|
Originally Posted by Silverado
Any other /sign's on this? if the Scrapper community is vocal enough on this issue maybe the devs will take this suggestion seriously and we can be happy for the rest of our lives
|
Read a bit about taunt and threat (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Taunt &http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Threat).
Damage contributes to threat, just like taunting. Scrappers' damage auras do something like 40% more than tankers', yet the tankers' AT modifier is only 33% higher. The taunt changes were implemented because scrappers with a taunt aura could hold aggro well enough that a tanker couldn't take it away. In the current setup, adding taunt to the damage auras would recreate that effect.
Plus, the taunt auras grant the scrapper something in return for keeping mobs near them. The damage auras help by killing things faster... but do scrappers need to kill things even faster? A change like this encroaches on the tanker and blasters' default roles on a team.
In short, this is a really really unlikely change.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
Quote:
If by "manipulation techniques" you mean scatter then yeah, we can agree that these sets don't need any more scatter tools.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Elec armor can manipulate the AI by draining enemy endurance (and I imigine LR can cause panic as well). Fiery can manipulate the AI very well with Burn. DA of course has OG and CoF as controls, so they don't really need still more enemy manipulation techniques, IMO.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gilia
Damage contributes to threat, just like taunting. Scrappers' damage auras do something like 40% more than tankers', yet the tankers' AT modifier is only 33% higher. The taunt changes were implemented because scrappers with a taunt aura could hold aggro well enough that a tanker couldn't take it away. In the current setup, adding taunt to the damage auras would recreate that effect.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gilia
Plus, the taunt auras grant the scrapper something in return for keeping mobs near them. The damage auras help by killing things faster... but do scrappers need to kill things even faster? A change like this encroaches on the tanker and blasters' default roles on a team.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gilia
In short, this is a really really unlikely change.
|
Let's not forget adding brute sr evasion's taunt aura to scrapper sr evasion.
Be well, people of CoH.
I agree, it makes sense for all scrapper secondaries to have a taunt aura effect of some kind. In fact it's really weird that some do and some don't. If anything that disparity will confuse less experienced players who might not understand the disparity in aggro between secondaries.
Take Provoke. Bump your Dam output.
The real thing is though is that scrappers won't ever be taunting like Tankers, and they shouldn't. At this point in the lifeline of CoX (IE Uber toons) scrappers can do just about anything and without completing making the Tanker a dying breed, scrappys should be the all out machines they are, minus the taunt. Dev's wouldn't boost one AT that would single handedly scrap another (no pun intended) I do not like the run aways either, but if they are running then there is a reason 
At the end of the day tanks need to take damage and aggro. Scrappers need to eliminate the threat and are very efficent at doing so. But with hanced Provoke plus the AOE's in a spines, you should be able to do just fine, or at least untill a Tank taunts then you are SOL...
@Possible
A couple of this, a couple of that.
Join Liberty
I've kept aggro from taunting tankers on my invul scrappers, mainly because I grab it first and they don't attack while I do. Foes run a lot less than against any other kind of scrapper, too. That's an often overlooked boon of invulnerability I am glad for now that I've got more experience with all other secondaries and realised this isn't the standard.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I've kept aggro from taunting tankers on my invul scrappers, mainly because I grab it first and they don't attack while I do. Foes run a lot less than against any other kind of scrapper, too. That's an often overlooked boon of invulnerability I am glad for now that I've got more experience with all other secondaries and realised this isn't the standard.
|
Why do you think they run less? Invincibility? What would be the case against Demons that have the same power? Oddly enough it feels like a conundrum.
@Possible
A couple of this, a couple of that.
Join Liberty
If the devs are going to fix taunt auras, top of my list would be the duration on RTTC. Every other taunt aura has a ~17 sec duration. RTTC is 1.25 sec. Wet tissue paper can peel aggro off of WP.
Quote:
Except that Scrappers already DO have taunt auras in some secondary sets (Invulnerability, Shield Defense, Willpower) and if you had actually read the thread before replying, you would've seen that I'm specifically suggesting a taunt component given to Scrappers' damage auras that's low enough to not steal aggro from Tankers/Brutes but just high enough to keep mobs from running away
|
Originally Posted by Possible
Take Provoke. Bump your Dam output.
The real thing is though is that scrappers won't ever be taunting like Tankers, and they shouldn't. At this point in the lifeline of CoX (IE Uber toons) scrappers can do just about anything and without completing making the Tanker a dying breed, scrappys should be the all out machines they are, minus the taunt. Dev's wouldn't boost one AT that would single handedly scrap another (no pun intended) I do not like the run aways either, but if they are running then there is a reason At the end of the day tanks need to take damage and aggro. Scrappers need to eliminate the threat and are very efficent at doing so. But with hanced Provoke plus the AOE's in a spines, you should be able to do just fine, or at least untill a Tank taunts then you are SOL... |
Quote:
It's Invincibility. Nothing special happens against Demons, once they get in melee range they stay there like other mobs. The only mobs I see running are the ones with specific AI rules (greater/lesser devoured, croatoa witches for example).
|
Originally Posted by Possible
Why do you think they run less? Invincibility? What would be the case against Demons that have the same power? Oddly enough it feels like a conundrum. |
Quote:
Although it comes pretty late in the game, and often gets little respect, Scrapper Evasion does provide some mitigation. |
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I believe the Taunt effect that gets translated to scrappers is only in powers that provide a direct mitigation benefit to the scrapper. That seems to be the design principle that guides the devs, based on what we have seen.
I believe this is why the damage auras (and Evasion) for scrappers do not Taunt. |
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Quote:
I didn't say they didn't have ANY taunt. I said they shouldn't have taunts built in at all if the case of baddies running away is not working. You would first have to find out exactly why they run. Being as it seems pretty isolated of a problem (IE scrappers) Maybe its that way for a reason. We all have opinions as to why baddies run, but throwing taunt at a toon that really shouldnt be taunting (true definition) seems pointless. RTTC has taunt because the power is driven by baddies so it would make sense to HAVE taunt attributes to it. Nonetheless, we just differ in opinions. Cheers.
|
Originally Posted by Silverado
Except that Scrappers already DO have taunt auras in some secondary sets (Invulnerability, Shield Defense, Willpower) and if you had actually read the thread before replying, you would've seen that I'm specifically suggesting a taunt component given to Scrappers' damage auras that's low enough to not steal aggro from Tankers/Brutes but just high enough to keep mobs from running away
|
@Possible
A couple of this, a couple of that.
Join Liberty
Quote:
Mob AI has been unintendedly screwy since i12 came out, and apparently not even the devs know why. RttC needs baddies around to fullfill its intended purpose (raise the regeneration of the Scrapper) but Blazing Aura and Lightning Field also need baddies around to fullfill its intended purpose (deal damage). No baddies around = no +regeneration for RttC and no damage dealt for the damage auras.|
Originally Posted by Possible
I didn't say they didn't have ANY taunt. I said they shouldn't have taunts built in at all if the case of baddies running away is not working. You would first have to find out exactly why they run. Being as it seems pretty isolated of a problem (IE scrappers) Maybe its that way for a reason. We all have opinions as to why baddies run, but throwing taunt at a toon that really shouldnt be taunting (true definition) seems pointless. RTTC has taunt because the power is driven by baddies so it would make sense to HAVE taunt attributes to it. Nonetheless, we just differ in opinions. Cheers.
|
And as for "throwing taunt at a toon that really shouldnt be taunting", let me remind you that ALL Scrappers primaries get a taunt power (single target), and as I mentioned before some secondaries have taunt auras, which proves that Scrappers are not above taunting enemies, and that's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact.
Adding taunt components to the aforementioned secondaries would fix the consistency issues of some Scrappers sets having a taunt aura and some not. It could also even be considered a QoL issue, until they fix the AI that has been screwy for 4 issues. Nothing gamebreaking, no one gets nerfed, everyone's happy.
Quote:
lol. Of course I meant mitigation based on having enemies nearby. Shield scrappers are iffy, but the -damage is probably enough to qualify. |
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Although it comes pretty late in the game, and often gets little respect, Scrapper Evasion does provide some mitigation.
|
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
How is it your scrapper leaves things alive long enough for them to run?
My Death Shroud is fine as is, if there is nothing in range of it, it just means I killed it all already.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
<QR>
I agree that Scrapper secondary auras should have a Taunt aspect to them.
...My Claws/WP Scrapper would finally be the Tanker he is! ^_^
Seven years of heroism. Seven years of friendships. Seven years of saving the world. Seven years of virtuous selflessness.
You will return, for you are the mighty City of Paragon, the City of Heroes.
Some Scrapper powers such as [Shield Defense.Against All Odds], [Invulnerability.Invincibility] and [Willpower.Rise to the Challenge] have a taunt component to them (+300% taunt as per ingame numbers) that is lower than the Tanker/Brute versions (which have +400% taunt). This value is logical because those 2 ATs are intended and better suited than Scrappers at managing aggro, while Scrappers are better suited than everyone else.
Another reason why those powers have a taunt component (besides granting Scrappers limited aggro-managing capabilities) is because they have beneficial effects to the Scrappers that require enemies to stay within range to work (+dam, +def/+tohit, +regen)
However, there are certain powers that we share with our cousin Tanker/Brute ATs that don't have a similar taunt rating: [Dark Armor.Death Shroud], [Fiery Aura.Blazing Aura] and [Electric Armor.Lightning Field]. The Tanker/Brute versions of these powers have a +400% taunt rating (as per ingame numbers) while the Scrapper versions have NONE. What is the reason behind this? these powers also have an effect on enemies which requires them to be in range to work (dealing damage, which is a Scrapper's main purpose in life), but without this (IMO) much needed taunt rating the mobs tend to flee when low on health, which puts a dent in a Scrapper's AoE damage output and raises some questions on the usefulness of these auras.
So if we suggested that a taunt component (+300%) was added to our Scrapper damage auras; lower than Tanker/Brutes, similar to other existing taunt powers, high enough to keep mobs from fleeing and scattering when low on health, how many of you my distinguished fellow Scrappers would /sign this?