I think that it would be very difficult to make this into a working powerset. Because,if I read it correct, every power creates more doubles who do nothing but attack once and then fade away.
I think it would be easier to go the MM way where you clone yourself. Hmmm gangwar 
If only this would be implemented. I love the sound of it 
I was sad to see that this set wasn't just nine different versions of the Flurry/Shadow Maul animation.
Honestly, a way of doing something like this in the engine is exactly that - powers the produce localized shadow limbs and the like. With the bonus that it can be both a form of Replication Melee and Speed Melee.
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Pretty much, yes - doubles who attack and then fade away. I've nothing against a Mastermind powerset of the same, but to be honest, I don't find it as interesting because henchmen that stick around need to have actual powers, and having a big throng of people who only kick and punch just isn't as exciting as, say, a throng of ugly demons that spit fire, I presume, or even as having a big throng of people who just shoot things.|
Originally Posted by GrinningSpade
I think that it would be very difficult to make this into a working powerset. Because,if I read it correct, every power creates more doubles who do nothing but attack once and then fade away.
I think it would be easier to go the MM way where you clone yourself. Hmmm gangwar |
I based this powerset on somewhat of a staple of certain fighting games, where you can call in assist characters, with some characters calling in copies of themselves. Marvel vs. Capcom has that in a big way with their Assist characters, who essentially jump in, throw an attack and jump out. Captain Commando, additionally, can call in any of the three other characters from his game (the mummy, the ninja, the baby in a mech) to do just that - drop in, hit once, drop out. As an avid MvsC player, I can tell you that this is a pretty exciting way to play for a couple of reasons.
Now, one of the best things about this sort of gameplay is that it breaks up the linear nature of fights, that is to say it's more than just walking up to people and hitting them, or shooting at people from range. Having the ability to place a double anywhere around an opponent and hit like that is interesting, especially when that double pops in, hits and disappears, only to pop in from another direction. And my Build Up idea was actually borrowed from Marvel Super Heroes, Marvel vs. Capcom's predecessor. In there, the Power gen would grant Captain America something like 5 shadows, each a few frames behind the previous one, transforming each hit he does into 5-6 consecutive hits, both for extra damage and for keeping the enemy reeling/blocking longer.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of duplicating yourself, because it works better in a story or a movie where the use of doubles is regulated by... Well, the Plot Device. In a game, having multiple copies of yourself just hanging around isn't as exciting. That, and having them run around actually prevents you from mixing in with them and switching places. Ideally, the doubles would be EXACT doubles of the original, and it's pretty difficult to do that with a Masterminds' tiered henchmen system, as well as the fact that Henchmen tend to be stronger than the Mastermind, himself.
Basically, a melee (or even blast, with imagination) set dealing with self-multiplication is, at least to me, more interesting in that it's more dynamic and uses doubles that are much more transient. Essentially, all they do is appear for one attack and disappear again. That sort of dynamic combat is, to my eyes at least, a better way to represent a person not having any traditional super powers, like enhanced strength or futuristic weapons, but manages to win anyway through clever misdirection and use of copies of himself.
Incidentally, what's wrong with a double showing up, throwing a punch and disappearing? Serious question here.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Actually, you have a point here. I'm not married to the idea of this being copies of yourself, come to think of it, and I'd be just as happy to work with man-shaped shadows as I would be with clones. About the only problem I have is my idea for a fast-click teleport, since that would require a shadow to somehow pass for the real thing. Essentially, it's my ripoff the classic ninja "replacement technique" where it turns out you didn't cut a real person, it was just a log.|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
I was sad to see that this set wasn't just nine different versions of the Flurry/Shadow Maul animation.
Honestly, a way of doing something like this in the engine is exactly that - powers the produce localized shadow limbs and the like. With the bonus that it can be both a form of Replication Melee and Speed Melee. |
Actually, I could see this as a self-resurrection technique. You get killed, you drop down, and when you resurrect, it turns out it was a fake all along, it explodes in blinding light and you walk in from off-camera ala Mercenaries/Soldiers. Though... That would actually go in a secondary. Hmm... Either way, that power aside, I'd be just as happy to work with what may as well be shorter versions of the Phantasm.
I'm not sure how well that would work for Super Speed when I have things like waves of running doubles and doubles attacking while you're clearly standing in another place, but I'm not opposed to the concept.
*footnote*
The problem with "multiple selves," as I understand it, is that the powers and costume subsystems don't communicate with each other well enough for you to alter an entity which is summoned as a pseudo pet. I believe that was the reason given why Masterminds don't, and may never, have henchman customization. On the other hand, I'm not sure if that's impossible to do if used as a power EFFECT, as power customization already allows power effects to be altered on the fly. Whether those alterations can be hooked into creating the image of a costume without creating an actual, lasting pseudo-pet is questionable, as no precedent about this exists. The lack of ability to use the weapon emotes Architect critters can suggests that's not possible.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I must admit, though that is not possible, it would be awesome!
to 
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I remember BaB posting a while back about weapon customisation and originally wanting weapons to drop as physics objects when the character dies, but being unable to make them inherit the player's chosen colours. And if that's impossible, I'd imagine getting something to take on a player's entire costume would be whole orders of magnitude more so.
Still... Would be SO cool.
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As I understood it, the problem was with creating a PhysX object that would inherit player colours. Power effects were already able to do so. There are several different things which come to play here - costume items, power effects on the player, power effects off the player, summoned pets and physics objects. Costume items we've always been able to edit, and weapons were turned into animated costume items. Power effects both on and off the player is something we've only been able to edit since I16, and since the thrown portion of spines is a power effect and not a weapon, that's why it had to wait until now. Physics objects we were never able to edit, but with I16, we seem to be able to tint them. You know those little flakes of fire that fly off after you smack something with Blaze or Fireball? Those are physics objects, and they inherit the colour of our fire, so we CAN edit them. Summoned pets we've never been able to affect, but again, with I16 we can affect those as well, as the many crystal and fire Stone pets testify.|
Originally Posted by Rebel_Scum
I remember BaB posting a while back about weapon customisation and originally wanting weapons to drop as physics objects when the character dies, but being unable to make them inherit the player's chosen colours. And if that's impossible, I'd imagine getting something to take on a player's entire costume would be whole orders of magnitude more so.
Still... Would be SO cool. |
Of course, the big thing here is whether these effects can include a full-scale player model with individually customizable features. Power effects don't always need to be sprites, but even when they're not, they're still monolithic blocks of information, such as a ready-made model that can only be tinted. I'm not sure if editing that model per-piece is possible at all.
That said, I knew this set was impossible, but I just enjoy the notion of it so very much
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I think that the biggest problem would be lag. That is also the only objection I have. Because it sounds interesting and I would like to see a thing like this.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Pretty much, yes - doubles who attack and then fade away. [snip]
Incidentally, what's wrong with a double showing up, throwing a punch and disappearing? Serious question here. |
Really like the idea - obviously the biggest hurdle is actually the back end stuff to actually create a replica, but it would allow for some real interesting mechanics.
For example the punch has 2/3 damage coming directly from you and 1/3 from a summoned clone with 1 HP. The clone will automatically 'die' a couple of seconds after his attack recharges though so if he isn't defeated he can get another hit in adding another 1/3 to the overall damage of the 'attack'. Similarly the kick would have 50% of the damage from you and 25% each from the 2 clones, with each one able to add another 25% to the overall attack damage if they aren't defeated before they can kick again.
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Here's a little idea I KNOW is not going to work given what we've been told of the engine, but I thought I'd put it forward as a thought exercise anyway: Replication Melee, where your primary power is not outstanding combat ability, super strength, super speed or control of the elements, but merely the ability to create doubles of yourself and use them to fight. Here's how I envision it going:
1. Double Punch: This is a common, unpowered punch, but with a twist - each time you strike, a double strikes the enemy from behind. This two-pronged attack is can throw even super-powered foes off balance.
2. Triple Kick: This is a common kick, but with a twist - each time you strike, two of your doubles attack the enemy from either side. This barrage of kicks can throw even super-powered foes off balance.
3. Tackle Wave: You send forth several waves of doubles who then run forward and tackle everything in their way. The doubles may be week, but their numbers are enough to trample even super-powered foes.
4. Trailing Shadow: This advanced technique allows you to summon several clones who actually occupy the same space as you and mimic your actions. When this is active, every action you take occurs multiple times as your doubles repeat after you. (Think just about any fighting game and how some supers cause you to have shadows of yourself striking multiple times)
5. Ambush: When you can make doubles of yourself, it makes sense to have them lying in wait all over the place. At your command, a double can break cover and attack an enemy from behind. You can direct the double to do this over a short range.
6. Aggravate: You can make an expendable expendable of yourself. What's the first thing you do? That's right! Poke Cthulu. With this power, you send an expendable double of yourself to poke an enemy and irritate them until they snap and come after you.
7. Feign: If you could make doubles of yourself, does it really make sense you'd go into battle on your own? Of course not! That person who'd been in the fight? That wasn't you all along, it was just another double. You were actually way over there. Surprise! (I envision this as either a short-range, instant-cast teleport or a VERY short-ranged Shield Charge variant).
8. Omni Swarm: When you can produce doubles of yourself, you are never cornered or outnumbered. With this power, you can cause waves of doubles to rush away in all directions, punching, kicking, shoving and pushing as they go, overwhelming any enemies surrounding you.
9. Hail of Strikes: The ultimate focused attack. With this power, you summon up multiple doubles, and together you beat a single target into a messy pulp by sheer weight of numbers.
*note*
I didn't give any numbers, because, frankly, I know it won't happen and, as well, because I was looking at Spines for a basic idea, so you can go from there.