Both would be very good. I'd probably go with Invulnerability because it benefits significantly more from Siphon Life. And as an alternative, there's Dark Melee/Shield Defense. That's flavor of the year for AV soloing because of the big damage buff and ability to soft cap defense. I'm guessing that Invulnerability would be more survivable (soft-capped defense plus big resists), but there's a lot to be said for burning through AVs quickly instead of slowly.
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"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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Invuln for sure if you want to solo AV's. WP relies too much on RttC which won't help much when soloing an AV. Plus, Invuln can hit the defense softcap way way way easier and that's what you really want in order to solo AV's. Just watch your end usage. I have seen lots of DM/invuln builds that would be nigh impossible to kill, but endurance is a big issue. Dark Consumption helps but you don't want to rely on it too much in case it misses.
Regen and SR and would both be better choices for AV's though.
Edit: I was mid-typing this when Werner responded so I didn't see what he wrote. Like Werner said, shield would probably be best.
I'm not so sure that Dark Melee/Regen is a BETTER choice than Dark Melee/Invulnerability for AVs. Maybe Umbral can chime in on this one. To be sure, DM/Regen can solo AVs, but I'd rather have Invulnerability personally, much as I like Regen. Super Reflexes is definitely a good choice, possibly better for AVs, but if so, probably not by a wide margin, so not worth it if you don't like Super Reflexes.
As for Willpower relying too much on Rise to the Challenge, that's true, but that and Soul Drain are why you surround yourself with minions while AV fighting. You would do the same thing on most Invulnerability builds to boost Invincibility and again to fuel Soul Drain.
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"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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It depends on the AV, honestly. I'd take an IO'd DM/regen over an IO'd DM/Invuln for most AVs any day. Against the AVs that are really hard hitting and mostly s/l damage, the DM/Invuln is going to be a better choice. Of course, I'm also crazy well experienced with */Regen, so much that I barely fear Ghost Widow (lol, Soul Storm when I've got IH running).|
Originally Posted by Werner
I'm not so sure that Dark Melee/Regen is a BETTER choice than Dark Melee/Invulnerability for AVs. Maybe Umbral can chime in on this one.
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I bring up my experience when addressing */Regen because it matter so much with */Regen. I could put together an absolute top tier */Regen build that obliterates everything and, if you're not on top of your game with your clickies, you're going to drop. Playing */Regen is nothing like playing any of the other defensive sets simply because player skill and experience matters so much more than it does for virtually any other set. I would recommend */Regen for doing almost anything solo, but I would always attach the warning that you're not going to just grab an awesome build and become awesome. It takes time and skill and experience to learn incoming damage patterns and the appropriate timing on your click powers and that's something that no other defensive set really has to deal with.
If someone has a boatload of experience with */Regen and with the game (re: knows themself and knows the AVs), then, yes, I would recommend */Regen over DM/Invuln. Otherwise, I'd recommend the much less experience requiring DM/Invuln.
Thanks a million guys, that helps me alot, ya umbral your right about having to have the skill in Regen, and I just don't have it yet. Maybe some day i'll roll a dm/regen. Anyway, so i'm gonna go with dm/invuln. Thanks for the awesome feedback guys. It was really helpful. Oh btw, could you guys explain to me soft cap? like i said before i'm not used to the numbers, but i would like to get familiar with em. If you could suggest a guide or something that would be awesome. Thanks a million guys!!!
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The defense softcap is where you've reached 45% defense. At this point, any attack from an enemy that isn't 5 levels above you or have some form of ToHit will have their chance to hit at the minimum (which differs from the con of your enemy - minions have a 5% chance to hit you when at the softcap, for example).
| Thanks a million guys, that helps me alot, ya umbral your right about having to have the skill in Regen, and I just don't have it yet. Maybe some day i'll roll a dm/regen. Anyway, so i'm gonna go with dm/invuln. Thanks for the awesome feedback guys. It was really helpful. Oh btw, could you guys explain to me soft cap? like i said before i'm not used to the numbers, but i would like to get familiar with em. If you could suggest a guide or something that would be awesome. Thanks a million guys!!! |
Don't underestimate the power of a decked out DM/WP. You can essentially be softcapped to all types, 50% S/L resistance. 2200+ HP, 700%+ regen with 1 foe in range. Its almost indestructable.
Holy crap Machine Man, that might be the best sig ive ever seen. And only cuz FW is a total ******.
LMFAO
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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LOL, yeah. I didn't want to call out any specific names in the first quote, but that response by Luminara was priceless and sig worthy.
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Originally Posted by JamMasterJMS
Holy crap Machine Man, that might be the best sig ive ever seen. And only cuz FW is a total ******.
LMFAO |
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Can WP softcap without crippling the rest of the build?
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Originally Posted by Machine_Man_X
Don't underestimate the power of a decked out DM/WP. You can essentially be softcapped to all types, 50% S/L resistance. 2200+ HP, 700%+ regen with 1 foe in range. Its almost indestructable.
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That depends on what you consider "crippling". A build that does so isn't going to be a top tier damage build because its not going to have much in the way of recharge and the sets that increase s/l defense have a tendency to under-enhance damage by being lower level sets, but it's going to be incredibly hardy. Of course, if I wanted to be hardy at the expense of damage capability, I'd just roll the character as a Tanker.
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
Can WP softcap without crippling the rest of the build?
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By this response, it looks like you haven't really looked at the Kinetic combat set much. All my attacks on my DM/WP are in the red for damage, so that's not an issue. |
Originally Posted by Umbral
That depends on what you consider "crippling". A build that does so isn't going to be a top tier damage build because its not going to have much in the way of recharge and the sets that increase s/l defense have a tendency to under-enhance damage by being lower level sets, but it's going to be incredibly hardy. Of course, if I wanted to be hardy at the expense of damage capability, I'd just roll the character as a Tanker.
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I also have 40% global recharge, and with slotting in the attacks, that is plenty to run MG - SP - Smite - SL - SP - Smite attack chain, which isnt far off the the "top tier".
The only thing that is a little low is accuracy (All single target attacks are at 129%), but this was stated as an AV soloing build, and I'm always at 95% chance to hit against AV's.
So, you think a scrapper running the above attack chain is Tanker level damage? lol. Most AV soloing scrapper builds have to sacrifice somewhere, and the extreme survivability of this build MORE than makes up for the few percent more damage it could be doing.
Ah, you meant softcapping S/L defense... I thought you meant positionals. That would still be a pain but a lot more doable than ranged + melee. The increased damage on Siphon Life really seems to have helped DM a lot, since I remember in the old days getting good single target damage required fairly massive recharge. Softcapped S/L defense plus decent S/L resist and good regen would definitely be great defense against AVs, though I think I personally would go /Shield instead for the extra damage. Hey, DM/SD is FotM for AV soloing for a reason... 
I wonder how DM/DA would do against AVs? You could softcap DA to S/L damage and you'd have higher resists than WP plus that insanely powerful heal (over half a bar even with just one target), plus a damage aura to speed things up a bit. Getting DA to be fully endurance neutral would be expensive, but with Conserve Power and Physical Perfection I could see it happening, especially since you could leave off the fear toggle.
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Dark Armor comes with a small amount of defense vs. all, so you can kind of choose whether you want to go with positional or typed. I would probably go positional, but I'd evaluate builds of both types before making a decision.
When fighting AVs on a Dark Armor, you'd likely leave the damage aura off to avoid killing Dark Regeneration fodder. That means you'd likely leave your fear or stun aura on.
I'm honestly not sure how DM/DA would do against AVs.
Getting it endurance neutral might not be that bad. You have access to Stamina, Dark Consumption, Conserver Power and Physical Perfection. It's hard to burn all that endurance.
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"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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not much of a DM user here, but just how far isn't far off?|
Originally Posted by Machine_Man_X
By this response, it looks like you haven't really looked at the Kinetic combat set much. All my attacks on my DM/WP are in the red for damage, so that's not an issue.
I also have 40% global recharge, and with slotting in the attacks, that is plenty to run MG - SP - Smite - SL - SP - Smite attack chain, which isnt far off the the "top tier". |
when you say isn't far off are you putting in the use of SD?
with 40% global recharge is it safe to say that you're at around 55 seconds recharge on SD?
"top tier" per say would be running smite-mg-smite-sl. That kind of recharge should bring down SD at around 35 seconds.
So we're looking at around 20 seconds difference here. Now I'm not a math guy here but that seems like a big number there...
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I have looked at Kinetic Combat. In fact, I've made builds that use Kinetic combat. I still don't like the set because it's so low level and have such pitiful enhancement for everything but damage.|
Originally Posted by Machine_Man_X
By this response, it looks like you haven't really looked at the Kinetic combat set much. All my attacks on my DM/WP are in the red for damage, so that's not an issue.
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| I also have 40% global recharge, and with slotting in the attacks, that is plenty to run MG - SP - Smite - SL - SP - Smite attack chain, which isnt far off the the "top tier". |
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| So, you think a scrapper running the above attack chain is Tanker level damage? lol. Most AV soloing scrapper builds have to sacrifice somewhere, and the extreme survivability of this build MORE than makes up for the few percent more damage it could be doing. |
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| Of course, if I wanted to be hardy at the expense of damage capability, I'd just roll the character as a Tanker. |
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If you're running Invulnerability, a lot of your survivability comes from defense, and endurance issues are going to be your biggest problem. Dark Melee is helping on both of those fronts. |
Originally Posted by TWilli
Hello guys, i've been playing CoH for a long time but I never got into the numbers. Was wondering if someone would be able to help me out. I'm trying to come up with a build that can solo AV's on hero side. I've been told DM is a very good set for that. I was also told by someone to go with SR but i'm not a big fan of SR. So.....I like willpower and Invuln, which one would be better for soloing? I would appreciate the feedback. Thanks!!!
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With Willpower, your biggest issue is going to be surviving big alpha strikes. The small self heal of Dark Melee probably isn't going to see you through that.
I'd say the synergy is stronger for DM/Inv than DM/WP. My DM scrapper is DM/Reflex, and that scrapper definitely needs the endurance help from the attack set. The synergy might be even stronger than with DM/Inv, because /Inv starts with more base resistance, and as such can bounce back better than a WP or a Reflex with bad luck.
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I'll throw my vote in for DM/Inv. I run an Inv/DM tanker and it's a beast. The utility of SL and DC add so much to Inv, and even with a SO/generic IO build it's a tough SoB.
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Survivability Scrappers and DPS Tanks can easily intrude on each other's realms. My own preference actually lies about halfway between the two archetypes. I have much more experience adding survivability to scrappers, so that's how I build the toons I like to play. But I'm also leveling up what I may eventually turn into an IO'd out DPS tank. I think it is overly simplistic to say that "As a Scrapper, my first priority should be the ability to beat face in." There are a wide range of player preferences, and I think both survivability Scrappers and DPS Tanks are something that players can reasonably prefer to play over the more common roles of the two archetypes.
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Originally Posted by Umbral
As a Scrapper, my first priority should be the ability to beat face in. If I'm going to sacrifice the ability to beat face in for the ability to withstand getting my own face beat in, I might as well just roll a Tanker and be done with it. DM/WP on a Tanker is actually quite powerful, thanks to the higher base HP. It's still going to be lower damage than the Scrapper, but if you're more interested in wrangling survivability than damage capability, what's the point?
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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I was applying that to me, specifically, as opposed to Scrappers in general. It's probably a popular sentiment that most Scrappers agree with, but I don't think there isn't a place for survivability focused Scrappers. Their place just isn't with me. I'd much rather get just enough survivability to survive, just enough endurance to be sustainable, and then put everything else into dishing out the damage.
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Originally Posted by Werner
I think it is overly simplistic to say that "As a Scrapper, my first priority should be the ability to beat face in." There are a wide range of player preferences, and I think both survivability Scrappers and DPS Tanks are something that players can reasonably prefer to play over the more common roles of the two archetypes.
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OK, then. And I definitely think you have the more typical scrapper viewpoint. |
Originally Posted by Umbral
I was applying that to me, specifically, as opposed to Scrappers in general. It's probably a popular sentiment that most Scrappers agree with, but I don't think there isn't a place for survivability focused Scrappers. Their place just isn't with me. I'd much rather get just enough survivability to survive, just enough endurance to be sustainable, and then put everything else into dishing out the damage.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Hello guys, i've been playing CoH for a long time but I never got into the numbers. Was wondering if someone would be able to help me out. I'm trying to come up with a build that can solo AV's on hero side. I've been told DM is a very good set for that. I was also told by someone to go with SR but i'm not a big fan of SR. So.....I like willpower and Invuln, which one would be better for soloing? I would appreciate the feedback. Thanks!!!