Does set bonus +endurance make +recovery bonuses more attractive
By
Black_Mute,
Posted on: 2009-10-26 17:25 in The Market and Inventions
Well, let's see.....
Miracle is 15% recovery, numina's is 10%. The performance shifter proc is a flat 0.2 end/s. At 100 max end and 1.6667% end/s base recovery, the miracle proc is 0.25 end/s, and the numina's is 0.167 end/s. At 112 max end, the miracle proc is 0.28 end/s, and the numina's is 0.187 end/s.
So, the miracle proc is always better than the performance shifter (at least in flat end/s recovered), and the numina's is always worse, whether you have +12 or so max end or not. The numbers shift slightly, but not enough to change the ordering. However, you *can* put the miracle unique into health's base slot, and if you do that, the most economical use of a single additional slot would be the performance shifter proc. Of course, the miracle unique is probably just a biiiit more expensive.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
If you take physical perfection, then your uniques +rec will double if you slot three end mods there along with the uniques. Basically the end. mods boost the uniques +rec. So you could technically say Num +rec is better than the perf. shifter proc.
See this thread for proof - http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=194955
Quote:
Yes, more endurance makes +recovery more effective in exactly the same way that more HP makes +regen more effective. Your blue bar fills up in a fixed timeframe based on your recovery level. If you make the blue bar represent more total endurance, that means you're recovering more absolute endurance per second.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Would the higher endurance total make the +recovery bonus IOs (slightly) more effective? Is the effect noticeable?
|
Whether it's noticeable is a kind of hard to quantify - it depends a lot on your end burn rate. I find that getting around 120 endurance from the combination of accolades and set bonuses to be quite noticeable in combination with the recovery uniques and a few additional +recovery bonuses. (Note that slotting a few purple sets can add up to around as much bonus recovery as a Numina's unique, or more.)
More endurance does not increase the effectiveness of the Performance Shifter proc. When it gives you endurance, it always gives you 20 endurance, no matter what size your full endurance bar is.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
Although a good point was made by CryoTech in thatb thread:|
Originally Posted by Black_Mute
If you take physical perfection, then your uniques +rec will double if you slot three end mods there along with the uniques. Basically the end. mods boost the uniques +rec. So you could technically say Num +rec is better than the perf. shifter proc.
See this thread for proof - http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=194955 |
Quote:
|
It is, just keep in mind that if you take PP at its earliest, lvl 44, that you won't receive a buff from the miracle proc if you exemp below lvl 39. It's better in the long run to just keep it in stamina but if you don't ever plan on exemping its more affective in PP. |
I was already planning to slot three end mods into Physical Perfection, and had not allocated any slots for Health (it would improve the Miracle unique if I slotted 3 Heals too, but slots are at a premium).
Keeping the exemplar issue in mind, and strictly considering endurance recovery, not life regen,it looks like I'd be best off to use the slots I had planned to spend thusly:
Stamina: 3 end mods, Perf Shifter proc
Health: Miracle unique
Physcial Perfection: 3 end mods
Is that reasonable?
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
It's at least close, although there may be some possibilities if you want to look at level 50 IO endmods...
Stamina is 25% recovery, PP is 12.5% (I think). So, 3 slotting level 25-30 endmods for ~95% enhancement is an extra 23.75% recovery from stamina and an extra 11.875% recovery from PP.
If you instead slot two level 50 endmods (83.3% enhancement after ED), the additional recovery is 20.83% from stamina and 10.415% from PP, for a difference of 2.92% recovery from stamina and 1.46% from PP. That translates (with base 112 endurance) to 0.055 less end/s from stamina and 0.027 less end/s from PP.
That, however, frees up two slots. If we use one of them in PP for a performance shifter proc (remember, it's not unique), that's a net gain of 0.173 end/s from PP. If we put the other in health for a numina's unique, that's a net gain there of 0.132 end/s.
So, while I don't think there would be much difference with level 30 endmods, once you're able to slot level 50 endmods doing the following:
Health: miracle unique, numina's unique
Stamina: 2 level 50 endmods, perf shifter proc
PP: 2 level 50 endmods, perf shifter proc
would work out to about 0.305 end/s more recovery than the other setup (assuming about 112 max end and that I've done the math right). Of course, you're paying for a numina's and an extra performance shifter proc to get that, but if cost is no object, it would be superior.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
Quote:
Exactly correct.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
If I have invested in a higher base Endurance total, would that make the fla6t +10 end of the Performance Shifter proc slightly less valuable to me, and the +recovery percentage increase of a Miracle unique slightly more important?
|
The same situation applies with regeneration and extra hit points.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Is the effect noticeable?
|
For any newbs reading:
Base character recovery will take you from 0 endurance to full in 100 seconds. Base regeneration will take you from 1 hit point to full in 240 seconds. If you have more hit points than the guy next to you, you will still get to full in 240 seconds. At low level you might have 200 hit points and heal them in 240 seconds. A high level tank could have 3,000 hit points and still heal them in 240 seconds.
Anything that increases your recovery or regeneration will get you there faster. Anything that increases your endurance or hit points will take just as long to get to full, but "full" is a higher number. Having more hit points AND faster regeneration will work together.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
It gives 10 endurance.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
More endurance does not increase the effectiveness of the Performance Shifter proc. When it gives you endurance, it always gives you 20 endurance, no matter what size your full endurance bar is.
|
(20% chance of it. Maybe that's where you got the 20.)
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
Thanks! It would be like those Willpower and Regen builds with 2 Perf Shifters. Which, I guess, could have THREE now, if they're Scrappers.|
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
So, while I don't think there would be much difference with level 30 endmods, once you're able to slot level 50 endmods doing the following:
Health: miracle unique, numina's unique Stamina: 2 level 50 endmods, perf shifter proc PP: 2 level 50 endmods, perf shifter proc would work out to about 0.305 end/s more recovery than the other setup (assuming about 112 max end and that I've done the math right). Of course, you're paying for a numina's and an extra performance shifter proc to get that, but if cost is no object, it would be superior. |
And while I do get what you're suggesting, it's so weird that the +endurance bonuses make the Perf Shifter procs less valuable to this build, and the solution is to add more of them. :P
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Quote:
My emphasis. While I understand the sentiment behind this statement, it's not exactly correct. The Perf Shifter proc is exactly as valuable with +end bonuses as it is without them. It gives a flat 10 endurance (10% of 100 base endurance is 10) regardless of total endurance. +End bonuses mean that 10 end is a smaller percentage of total end but you still get 10 end either way.
|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Thanks! It would be like those Willpower and Regen builds with 2 Perf Shifters. Which, I guess, could have THREE now, if they're Scrappers.
And while I do get what you're suggesting, it's so weird that the +endurance bonuses make the Perf Shifter procs less valuable to this build, and the solution is to add more of them. :P |
...in CoH racing to 50 is like trying to race to the end of your vacation. -Arcanaville
Debt barely slows down levelling these days. It's just a little bar that measures how much Awesome you've generated recently. (If you're not getting debt, you're just not trying to generate Awesome hard enough.) -Kelenar
Yeah, more or less. It's not that the end bonuses makes the perf shifter any less useful, but it just makes the numina's and miracle *more* useful. Notice that the best solution involves both of those uniques - it just adds perf shifters on top, because those procs are more valuable than the last 15%ish enhancement you could eke out in the third slot.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
Yeah, more or less. It's not that the end bonuses makes the perf shifter any less useful, but it just makes the numina's and miracle *more* useful. Notice that the best solution involves both of those uniques - it just adds perf shifters on top, because those procs are more valuable than the last 15%ish enhancement you could eke out in the third slot.
|
Okay, I see now. You're talking about the situation as an efficient use of slots. I can be somewhat slow on the uptake at times.
...in CoH racing to 50 is like trying to race to the end of your vacation. -Arcanaville
Debt barely slows down levelling these days. It's just a little bar that measures how much Awesome you've generated recently. (If you're not getting debt, you're just not trying to generate Awesome hard enough.) -Kelenar
Quote:
Yeah, that is what happened there. Late night/early morning responses result in fact fuzzification. |
Originally Posted by Ironblade
It gives 10 endurance.
(20% chance of it. Maybe that's where you got the 20.) |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
One other factor to consider. If you nuke alot, the +recovery mods become useless for the duration of the "no recovery" debuff. But the Performance Shifter proc keeps working.
This doesn't matter to most characters, but every once in a while it is important.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
If I have invested in a higher base Endurance total, would that make the flat +10 end of the Performance Shifter proc slightly less valuable to me, and the +recovery percentage increase of a Miracle unique slightly more important?
My current plan involves getting +11-13 endurance bonus from set bonuses, and not to have any slots invested into Health, on a Spines/Dark Scrapper. I was planning on adding a fourth slot to Stamina for the Perf Shofter proc, but I might be better shifting that slot to Health and getting a Miracle unique and a generic heal IO (or a Miracle and Numina unique, I guess) with that "spare" slot.
Would the higher endurance total make the +recovery bonus IOs (slightly) more effective? Is the effect noticeable?
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog