I hate caltrops and people who drop them where I'm tanking.
Any enemy that was on you still is; the caltrops effect has just added a "leave this area" effect that takes precedence.
Step off the caltrops, and the enemies will come back to you.
Tanking is far more effective when you're mobile anyways.
Of course, if you're herding, the trops are gonna screw things up. But I'm not gonna get into the "tanking vs herding" debate.
@Roderick
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What we have here is a failure to communicate. My herding scrapper has Caltrops, and uses them liberally while herding. When you've made a long distance pull, a pile of Caltrops can stop the mobs from queuing up single file and gather up into a ball where they can be AoE'd to death.
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Originally Posted by Doctor_Xaxan
Why do people do this? And why do they throw tantrums when you ask (politely!) for them to stop.
I'm usually team leader when I play, but when I'm not, something like this inevitably happens and I'm stuck with a team leader who's too afraid of conflict to address peoples' goofy antics. |
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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I've only had one person that repeatedly dropped caltrops at my tanker's feet; usually it's just a person throwing it wherever seems fun. After half a mission, I asked if he could drop the caltrops anywhere but my feet as it made agro control a bit more complicated. His response indicated that he thought he was doing me a favor, and he quickly stopped.|
Originally Posted by Doctor_Xaxan
Why do people do this? And why do they throw tantrums when you ask (politely!) for them to stop.
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I've never seen anyone throw a tantrum concerning the placement of a particular power, so I'm curious how often this is an actual problem. Perhaps this is a problem with traps defenders that don't have any real mitigation yet?
You could just turn off your agro aura when caltrops gets thrown at you and watch people die. The game is supposed to be entertaining, after all.
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I take it there is more of this as a result of Traps. I like traps and with them being the only defenders on a team there is a "Time and Place!" for caltrops. I like to see some defender powers not just be on show in their power tray and used but there is a time and place for them. I have come across someone who although they hate burn on their Fire/Fire Tank as it makes mobs run away they have to make mobs run away from the feet of other Tankers. |
Originally Posted by Doctor_Xaxan
Why do people do this? And why do they throw tantrums when you ask (politely!) for them to stop.
I'm usually team leader when I play, but when I'm not, something like this inevitably happens and I'm stuck with a team leader who's too afraid of conflict to address peoples' goofy antics. |
On my Traps it'll be at a Tankers feet should they say not be something like a Dark Tank or be in the red. Caltrops can buy something like 5-10 secs. Mostly it'll be at a squishies feet who can operate with NPCs outside of melee.
When someone uses Caltrops, a Tanker can lose aggro as well as small cones or aoes being undermined. Not all Tankers are the same and it can be a case of mobs being free the moment they move away.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Let's say I have all of the baddies in a room herded to where I want them and am holding aggro while the team burns them down. Also assume that my health bar isn't an issue -- which it hasn't ever been, when Caltrop Fights (tm) happen.
What is the justification for dropping caltrops at my feet and causing the critters to scatter? That might sound petulant, but I am actually fairly new to the game, and if there's something I'm missing, I genuinely want to have a clearer picture.
The instance which provoked this post ended with the defender saying something along the lines of, "But you're asking me to nerf part of my damage because you can't herd them (the critters)"
My gut feeling is that caltrops, which does very little damage and causes critter scatter, actually lowers the overall DPS of a team in AOE situations. Is that off-base?
Misplaced Caltrops can actually cause more harm than good and so for that I would take the view that the damage from caltrops is non priority.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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You're right. I think it's not too big a deal. It would be better if a few slow enh were slotted into caltrops.|
Originally Posted by Doctor_Xaxan
Let's say I have all of the baddies in a room herded to where I want them and am holding aggro while the team burns them down. Also assume that my health bar isn't an issue -- which it hasn't ever been, when Caltrop Fights (tm) happen.
What is the justification for dropping caltrops at my feet and causing the critters to scatter? That might sound petulant, but I am actually fairly new to the game, and if there's something I'm missing, I genuinely want to have a clearer picture. My gut feeling is that caltrops, which does very little damage and causes critter scatter, actually lowers the overall DPS of a team in AOE situations. Is that off-base? |
I would just let the person do whatever. It's something that the player won't understand completely till he/she plays a tanker. And actually, you should play a traps defender and try your best to contribute, you might be tempted to throw caltrops on the ground too.
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Perhaps the issue is that a lot of people rolled up shiny new traps defenders, and they got themselves a situational power that they want to use. They see it's a debuff, and debuffing mobs is what defenders do, so they toss around the caltrops.|
Originally Posted by Twilight_Snow
I would just let the person do whatever. It's something that the player won't understand completely till he/she plays a tanker. And actually, you should play a traps defender and try your best to contribute, you might be tempted to throw caltrops on the ground too.
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Caltrops can be used as an adjunct to herding, to concentrate mobs. My herding scrappers usually take the power. The ITF is rich in examples: there are plenty of ambushes in the missions, and sowing the ground in the path of the ambush with Caltrops slows them down and creates a traffic jam at the edge of the 'trops field, which is what you want. I do often throw Caltrops at the feet of the tanker during the Nictus Romulus fight. Since AVs don't run from them, the effect is to make the summoned nictuses and Roman ambushes clear the area, so Rommie's healer Nictus can't work off them.
I do slot for slow rather than damage in the caltrops; for me it's a control and debuff power and not a damage power.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Or just let the tank taunts the ambush and let it comes to the tank instead of slowing them down. Actually, this is more or less the point of the thread. The tank does not need the control, just let them come, while other people think that the control helps. 
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Why is it the team leaders job to communicate the issue. You are clearly in the right. The person thorwing the trops probably just doesn't realize. Post it in the team chat so all can see it.. Just something like, "Whoever is throwing the caltrops...they are breaking the aggro off me and scattering the mobs." That way, the person might feel a little more annonymous. |
Originally Posted by Doctor_Xaxan
Why do people do this? And why do they throw tantrums when you ask (politely!) for them to stop.
I'm usually team leader when I play, but when I'm not, something like this inevitably happens and I'm stuck with a team leader who's too afraid of conflict to address peoples' goofy antics. |
I'd mention it a few times to make sure they see it. You bring it to everyones attention without pointing blame at a specifc person by posting it in the team chat.
Yeah Caltrops sucks. It's only good for an emergency, otherwise please don't use it. It's right up there with KB. What's sad is I see 2-4 year veteran badges on people who are spamming caltrops. They should know better.
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Traps is new to blueside, and redside works differently. There's a lot more damage, a lot more ranged AoE, and a lot more mitigation spread out redside, rather than being clumped together like with blueside ATs, so herders and "holding" foes isn't a concern for redside players, who will be the ones with the most experience using Traps and Caltrops. |
Originally Posted by taekoUSA
Yeah Caltrops sucks. It's only good for an emergency, otherwise please don't use it. It's right up there with KB. What's sad is I see 2-4 year veteran badges on people who are spamming caltrops. They should know better.
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But Caltrops is a slow field, so it shouldn't be "scattering" foes at a particularly quick pace. Using it for damage (unless proc'd to the gills) isn't particularly effective, but it's a fairly good way to hold foes in other scatter effects - burns, Rain of Fire, etc. - for longer. And in some cases, it's also a -recharge (with Pace of the Turtle's proc), making it a nice bonus when fighting hard targets.
Why do people do this? And why do they throw tantrums when you ask (politely!) for them to stop.
I'm usually team leader when I play, but when I'm not, something like this inevitably happens and I'm stuck with a team leader who's too afraid of conflict to address peoples' goofy antics.