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I'd support changing these powers to toggles instead of clicks.
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Originally Posted by StormSurvivor
While powers like detention field and sonic cage have some players that will sing their praises, (I love them), there's an obvious presence of players who aren't so fond of them. The most common reason I see in teams is that if the rest of the mob is cleared, they don't like waiting for the enemy to be freed from their confinement.
So what I ask is, is there any obvious reason why these powers wouldn't be better off as a phase shift-like toggle where you can only keep the enemy detained for up to thirty seconds, but can let them out earlier if you please? |
I seem to recall that the reason given for why they can't be changed to toggles is that it's just plain impossible to do. Capture or phase sets the enemy to "Only Affecting Self"...which means they can't be affected by the toggle after the initial effect duration passes.
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A toggle basically recasts itself periodically.
For the sake of this discussion lets use a 1 second pulse, with a 1.25 second duration.
The 'toggle' phase would cast for 1.25 seconds. When the second pulse was checking, it would see the target was unaffected and not be able to cast. Thats assuming the toggle wasn't dropped by the unaffected flag.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Correct. Phase powers cannot be toggles simply due to the way phase and toggles work. The devs would have to make significant changes to either the way foe intangible powers work, or the way toggles work in order to make a toggled enemy phase power.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Its not the "Only Affecting Self" that make a character unaffected by others, otherwise the -def on rest would be pointless, and no attack would ever be able to get through personal force field.
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Originally Posted by IanTheM1
I seem to recall that the reason given for why they can't be changed to toggles is that it's just plain impossible to do. Capture or phase sets the enemy to "Only Affecting Self"...which means they can't be affected by the toggle after the initial effect duration passes.
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I'm acctually sort of curious now...How does DF function against mez resistances and/or protection? Could a Boss resist it? Could anything? If I could, for example, pin down an EB for 30 seconds...Then making them invincable during that time may not be such a bad tradeoff.
The effects listed are Untouchable, AffectSelf, and Immobilize. Maybe the Immobilize would be resisted, but I don't know if anything out there has resistances or protection against the other two...
I've never taken or used the power personally, but I'm wondering if I misjudged it now.
The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)
Virtue Forever.
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Personal Forcefield is not an intangibility power, it's a defence power. Intangibility is not based around defence, even though certain NPCs will use high-defence powers which return an "Unaffected" miss message. Regular detention powers do not allow ANY effect, positive, negative, autohit or whatever, to affect the intangible character. And, yes, you can easily rest inside a Detention field and there's not a damn thing the person who detained you can do about it. Dropping out of detention field while you're resting is an obvious danger, but its defence debuff doesn't make you hittable when you're intangible.|
Originally Posted by Shadow State
Its not the "Only Affecting Self" that make a character unaffected by others, otherwise the -def on rest would be pointless, and no attack would ever be able to get through personal force field.
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And, no, you can't rest while in Personal Forcefield. Rest simply deactivates the bubble the same way Combat Jumping deactivates Super Jump.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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That wasn't what he was getting at, Sam.
Admittedly, I was thinking less the actual mechanic of OAS, and instead the literal function of it/Phase. I probably would've just said phase if we hadn't been talking about Detention Field.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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Right, I read "Only Affecting Self" as intangibility, whereas it's the locking effect of being unable to use a lot of powers. It's not Only Affecting Self that makes a character untouchable, but re-reading that, I sort of assumed you both meant to say "phase." And with that in mind, the post makes more sense and my reply makes less sense in general.
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Originally Posted by IanTheM1
That wasn't what he was getting at, Sam.
Admittedly, I was thinking less the actual mechanic of OAS, and instead the literal function of it/Phase. I probably would've just said phase if we hadn't been talking about Detention Field. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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There are no powers which grant AffectingSelf protection (or resistance), but it does follow the mez mechanics. As such, in order to affect a target, you need magnitude exceeding the target's natural protection. (Players have mag 1 inherent protection, in both PvP and PvE)|
Originally Posted by AkuTenshiiZero
I'm acctually sort of curious now...How does DF function against mez resistances and/or protection? Could a Boss resist it? Could anything? If I could, for example, pin down an EB for 30 seconds...Then making them invincable during that time may not be such a bad tradeoff.
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Defender Detention Field and Sonic Cage are mag 5.96, and can't be slotted for intangible (so you can't increase the mag, so you can't cage an EB or GM with a single application).
Controller Detention Field/Sonic Cage are mag 7.45, so they can get an EB in one shot.
Corruptor/Mastermind Detention Field/Sonic Cage are 4.768.
All versions of Black Hole and Dimension Shift are mag 3 and can be enhanced. Intangible enhancements are schedule A, so fully enhanced approximately doubles the base value.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
So, by those numbers, a Mastermind could in fact DF a Boss...Interesting. Even more interesting is that AV's have a suprisingly low protection and could also be DFed...
I just might have to considder taking it. After a bit of my own research, I found you can get DF to a near 1:1 up/down ratio. Coupled with the ability to pin down AVs...It's situational as all hell, but could be a godsend in said situations.
The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)
Virtue Forever.
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You have to keep in mind that AVs have very low status protection, but have purple triangles that give them something like mag 50 protection to everything when they're up. Now, I'm not sure if this includes intangibility, but I suspect it does.|
Originally Posted by AkuTenshiiZero
So, by those numbers, a Mastermind could in fact DF a Boss...Interesting. Even more interesting is that AV's have a suprisingly low protection and could also be DFed...
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I know one thing - from playing around with Dimension Shift, it can be VERY useful. It lets you pause extra aggro when it occurs, it lets you give your team a breather, and if you're on the ball with where you aim it, you can detain around half a spawn while you beat on the other half.
I've only tried it on a Dom, however, and since I discovered I couldn't play Doms to my satisfaction, I can't give you any more information.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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It does not.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
You have to keep in mind that AVs have very low status protection, but have purple triangles that give them something like mag 50 protection to everything when they're up. Now, I'm not sure if this includes intangibility, but I suspect it does.
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Oh, well. I stand corrected.
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Originally Posted by Kahlan_
It does not.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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As I said before, there is no power in the game which offers protection or resistance from untouchable/affecting self/intangible. PToD is actually a power called "Resistance" given to AV-class enemies (and AVs downgraded to EBs).
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
You have to keep in mind that AVs have very low status protection, but have purple triangles that give them something like mag 50 protection to everything when they're up. Now, I'm not sure if this includes intangibility, but I suspect it does.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
While powers like detention field and sonic cage have some players that will sing their praises, (I love them), there's an obvious presence of players who aren't so fond of them. The most common reason I see in teams is that if the rest of the mob is cleared, they don't like waiting for the enemy to be freed from their confinement.
So what I ask is, is there any obvious reason why these powers wouldn't be better off as a phase shift-like toggle where you can only keep the enemy detained for up to thirty seconds, but can let them out earlier if you please?