Diminishing returns.
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Originally Posted by Darkmanhealer
Diminishing returns.
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^^^This^^^
Rule of thumb; DR reduces most affects on you to about 40% of full strength. Especailly noticeable on regens when they only get about 50-60 hp/sec regen w/ IH on.
Welcome to the wonderful world of DR (diminishing returns). Any melee class gets its defense and resistance severely reduced in PvP zones.
Heres a basic rundown of the PvP changes (note that there has been some changes since these notes were released):
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PVP Revamp PvP combat has been completely revamped in this issue, in an attempt to make it more fun for all ATs and builds. Please note that these changes only take effect in PvP situations; these changes have no effect on PvE. Here are a summary of the major changes: The damage of all attacks has been refigured. Basically, the longer the activation/animation time of an attack power, the more damage the power is going to do. There are adjustments for recharge time and Endurance cost, but the actual time the power takes up in an attack chain is the primary consideration. In general, the base damage of all Archetypes has been increased in PvP zones and Arenas. The Containment bonus for Controllers in PvP has been reduced because of their higher base damage. Being hit by an attack triggers movement suppression, just as making an attack does. Suppression for being hit by an attack is always the same duration. Any power with a negative impact on the target (including all debuff powers) is considered an attack. Note that Teleport powers are completely disabled when suppressed. Healing powers also trigger suppression. The greater the base range of an attack, the longer the suppression for the attacker. Teleport Foe and related powers in Gravity Control and Warshade powersets now grant 3/4 of a second "untouchable" flag on the target. Resistance and defense powers have greater diminishing returns when stacked than in PvE, and lower caps. Healing powers suffer from diminishing returns when several are used in a short period of time. All Archetypes (except Tankers and Masterminds) have some default resistances to all attacks in PVP. Unlike in PvE, defensive toggles do not suppress when you are held/stunned. This means that not only do the toggles not drop, they continue to grant defenses while the player is held/stunned. Melee classes gain extra resistances to all debuffs and to movement slows. These bonuses are linked to the power in each set that gives status protection (Unyielding Stance, Wet Ice, Plasma Shield, etc.). "Buffing" Archetypes (Defenders, Controllers, Corruptors, Dominators and Masterminds) have less ability to benefit from all buffing powers than other ATs (the powers have less effect on them, and their caps are lower). Melee ATs gain more benefit from buffing powers than other Archetypes (the powers have greater effect on them, and their caps are higher). Defeating enemies in PvP can award Influence/Infamy, Inspirations, and rarely Salvage, but no XP. In general, there is no such thing as Status Protection in PvP, only Resistance. The exception is Knockback protection, since Knockback is a binary effect. The base durations of status effects are greatly reduced in PvP (generally 4 seconds for Controllers and Dominators, 2 seconds for all other Archetypes). |
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Originally Posted by CryoTech
^^^This^^^
Rule of thumb; DR reduces most affects on you to about 40% of full strength. Especailly noticeable on regens when they only get about 50-60 hp/sec regen w/ IH on. |
Poor regens
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
I guess I don't understand diminishing returns fully, then. My understanding is that it would grant a lesser effect when you stack multiple powers, but I am getting a lesser effect from single powers. Like, if I turn on a single toggle, my smashing resist will go from zero to 39-ish as opposed to zero to 54-ish.
I'd call that "diminshed returns" not "diminishING returns!" Because of the exponential nature of damage resist, the 50-ish percent resist I get with all my toggles on is actually 2x worse (i..e, I am taking 2x as much damage) than my normal level of 75-ish percent.
EDIT:
Okay I think I get it. It's not really a stacking penalty per se...it's that instead of like PvE land where you increase with no penalty until you hit a hard cap, it's gradual. You get more and more nerfed the closer you get to cap, even if it's from a single power.
Fine, but that kinda gets hosed for PvE content in a PvP zone. Like a CC AT gets to fire his CC powers at an NPC in a PvP zone (enough acronyms for you?) and it works fine since CC nerf keys off the target, not the zone. Maybe I am not asking an original question here, but why not nerf tanking against players only, instead of blanket based on the zone? Heck in my exactly one PvP experience ever, I already had someone train a bunch of NPCs on to me as a weapon (which worked!). As a Tanker I think I'd laugh at that. Heck I hit Power Surge and my resists as a lightning ball dude were STILL LESS than I am as normal ol' me in the non-PvP world.
So now you realise what the pvp community have been complaining about since i13.
Welcome to our side of the fence.
See that dot over the other side???
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Obviously, PvE combat in a PvP zone was at the very bottom of the list of things that were important in making the changes. As a side effect, getting the kill badges for the AVs and heroes in RV became a lot more difficult after I13 to the point where no one I know has even tried to get the badges and I can count the number of teams forming to get them on one hand (I'm not exaggerating, and those changes were made almost a year ago). This is one of the reasons NPCs were often a worse threat than enemy players for a while after I13 - NPC mezzes were using their standard durations, but without mez protection that meant your melee ATs were getting held or stunned for 15-20 seconds.|
Originally Posted by BizarroJ
Fine, but that kinda gets hosed for PvE content in a PvP zone. Like a CC AT gets to fire his CC powers at an NPC in a PvP zone (enough acronyms for you?) and it works fine since CC nerf keys off the target, not the zone. Maybe I am not asking an original question here, but why not nerf tanking against players only, instead of blanket based on the zone? Heck in my exactly one PvP experience ever, I already had someone train a bunch of NPCs on to me as a weapon (which worked!). As a Tanker I think I'd laugh at that. Heck I hit Power Surge and my resists as a lightning ball dude were STILL LESS than I am as normal ol' me in the non-PvP world.
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Most of us would be happy if they just reverted out diminishing returns (the option exists in the arena, but there's no option to turn off the 40% base resistance most squishies get so everything's running around with capped resistances), but that'd be an admission of a mistake, which unfortunately seems unlikely.
I really hate being negative about a game I like, but there's been very little to quell my concerns on the PvP front, at least.
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"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
This is probably an incredibly newb question, but I am just starting to mess around with PvP, and I notice that with my Tanker, my damage resistance (according to "Combat Attributes") goes down dramatically when I zone into a PvP zone.
This appears to happen in any PvP zone, regarless of whether I am auto-exemplared, auto-sidekicked, etc. The decrease is significant (55% down to 39% resist for charged armor for instance). If I do a "show info" on a power, the "detailed info" matches what it is normally (when I am outside the PvP zone). This is by contrast to examplaring down (for instance in a mission) so far that my enhancements start scaling down...in that case the "detailed info" matches reality.
What gives?