6+ avs

Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary

Originally Posted by Dispari Yeah, I like Blasters too.

Power Analyzer Mk 1-3

I had started another thread about this issue. Whose mission was this, Tina or Maria? What level was the mission holder? What level was Bobcat?

Achilles Heel is not unresistable. I'm guessing that because the proc reads off the Melee_Ones table instead of the Ranged_Res_Dmg table it is exempt from the purple patch.

Achilles Heel
RES(All Types) -0.20000 Melee_Ones% for 10.25s [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster

Enervating Field
RES(All Types) -3.00000 Ranged_Res_Dmg% for 0.75s PvE only [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster

Acid Mortar
RES(All Types) -2.00000 Ranged_Res_Dmg% for 20s [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster

Thank you _Uun_ that explains it.

i´ll post the details in your thread and send a pm to Arbiter Kim.

Achilles Heel "ignores" the purple patch because the Achilles Heel -Res debuff is *not* an effect that the player imposes on the target. The way the debuff works if you trigger the debuff your attack actually Grants a passive power to the target that applies the debuff.

Since the target is affecting itself with a power you gave it, the debuff always affects the target for full strength: never more, and never less. It is always an even-con effect by definition.


Edit: that's probably also why it uses the Melee_Ones table: if it didn't every target you hit with it would have a different strength effect because the effect would use the target's table, not yours

Interesting, is it the same with all procs that causes an effect?

I don't recall off the top of my head, but I think the Recharge debuff one works the same way, so its not just Achilles.

I think the recharge debuff one can stack unlike Achilles, but I'm not 100% certain about that. But I think the logic behind making the debuffs a grant power in general is that normal effects can either stack or not stack. One or many. But powers can be limited to a specific limit. For example, the "5-rule" for set bonuses is enforced by placing a limit on the passive powers that implement those set bonuses: the game only allows you up to five copies of the power. Proc debuffs that are implemented as grant powers can theoretically have the same kind of limit: you could make a debuff that could not stack (limit: 1), or stack up to three times, or five times, or any limit you want.

Gracias

Shouldn't debuff resistance still come into play somewhere? I thought there had been issues with players resisting their own powers in the past, so it must be possible.

Most player self-buffs are tagged to be unresistable, which is why players do not tend to resist their own buffs. But I believe Achilles is tagged to be resistable, so even though its a "self buff" it can be resisted by the target. And yes if this is set incorrectly on a player self buff power by mistake a player can resist their own self buffs.

(An example of player buffs that are deliberately resistable are most heals. That is how Hamidon can make them ineffective: Hamidon is actually *buffing* player heal resistance.)

Wow, thats HUGE!!!
Never knew about that temp.

Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary

Originally Posted by Dispari Yeah, I like Blasters too.

That's exactly my point. If Achilles' heel is tagged as being resistable, then it can't be the reason for the -20% showing up on an AV.

The display could also be wrong: Real Numbers displays don't always fully account for target resistances: some player effects show a similar discrepancy between the net resisted effect and the displayed strength. At least, this was true the last time I checked which was a while ago, but I know it has been an issue in the past.

The question is, under the test conditions, if the damage numbers in combat chat (which are, as far as I know, authoritative) agree with the resistance debuff being resisted, or with the resistance debuff being unresisted.

Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to directly test that at the moment: I'm still waiting on my new PC (and I had to blow the client off my laptop temporarily for a project).

The Achilles Heel proc gets its own entry in the Combat Attributes window, so it should not have shown up under Acid Mortar. You should have gotten one entry for Acid Mortar (showing a fairly low number), and one entry for Achilles Heel, showing 20%.

As has already been mentioned, the reason that the Purple Patch does not reduce this number is that it is a power granted to the target.


It always *shows up* as -20%, but depending on the resistance of the target, it doesn't always *give* -20%.

The reason for this is that the sub-headings (the entry for each power) for each attribute shows the "natural" value given by that power, before resistances are taken into consideration (but after Combat Modifiers ("purple patch"). This means that these values are not always representative of the actual effect on the target.

The "main headings" for each attribute show the accurate (post-resistance) totals however.


e.g., if you have:

Smashing Resistance: x%
---Resistance affecting power 1: y%
---Resistance affecting power 2: z%

, then the value given for Smashing Resistance is guaranteed to be accurate, but the values listed for Resistance affecting power 1 and Resistance affecting power 2 might not be.
(Resistance buffs are generally unresistable, and will thus generally show the correct values. Most Resistance Debuffs are however resistable, and will thus show inaccurate values when your (unresistable) Resistance is non-zero (unresistable Resistance is what is used to resist resistable Resistance).


If you had a power called "Resistance Buff" giving you 50% Smashing Resistance, and a power called "Resistance Debuff" giving you -50% Smashing Resistance, the Combat Numbers display should show you this:

Smashing Resistance: 25%
---Resistance Buff: 50%
---Resistance Debuff: -50%

Resistance Debuff is *showing* -50%, but the actual debuff the target experiences is -50%*(1-50%) = -25%.
Thus, the total Smashing Resistance is 50% - 25% = 25%.

So, to find out the effective debuff of a power, you will often need to back-calculate it from the *total*, instead of looking at the entry for that specific power.


Going back to the case of Achilles' Heel, its entry should always show -20%, but if the target has Resistance, the effective debuff will actually be lower than this.

Oh, I forgot to mention...
The effective debuff would only be different from 20% if the AV in question has any Resistance of the appropriate type. Since many AVs have 0 Resistance to at least some damage types, it's quite possible for Achilles' Heel to give an effective -20% Resistance to an AV.

But still Achilles didnt get its own entry, is that because of it being a pet(mortar)? Or is the power analyzer so inaccurate that it would show acid mortar as -20% and enervating field at -3.32%?

Achilles' Heel *always* gets its own entry. It has to, since the Combat Attributes window shows each "source" separately (in this case the debuffs even have different origins, the Acid Mortar debuff is used by the Acid Mortar, and the Achilles' Heel debuff is "used" by the target).


(picture showing the Mastermind version of Acid Mortar against a -5 foe, base debuff = 20%)



It is also not a case of lack of accuracy, nor is it the case that the Defender version of Acid Mortar was accidentally set to ignore Combat Modifiers for the Resistance debuff.


(picture showing the Defender version of Acid Mortar against a -3 foe, base debuff = 26.60%)


Are you sure that you read the Combat Numbers window correctly? Maybe there was one entry for Acid Mortar and one for Achilles' Heel, and you happened to latch onto the number for Achilles' Heel?

It'd be interesting to see a screenshot of what you describe.