/Elec is my choice, hands down.
The biggest reason is that, while Energy and Elec both combine for the same amount of melee damage, it is dispersed differently. With a little recharge, you can get a very fast acting attack chain for /Elec with Havoc Punch, Charged Brawl, and Shocking Grasp while skipping Thunderstrike and its long animation.
Whereas, more of Energy's damage is in Total Focus, which has that long animation.
In terms of utility, Energy is handy (mostly for boost range).......but for blapping, I prefer Electricity.
What he said for sure.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
I've done blappers in Energy, Electric, and Fire. The most fun I've had blapping so far is a Rad/Fire I'm currently working on. The problem with /Fire is that there is very little mitigation and what there is comes late in the set.|
Originally Posted by trendee
I know NRG is the popular blapper secondary, I was just wondering if other secondaries make for good blapper secondaires.
Has anyone made an /elec secondary, this was the only other candidate that I could see had much potential for blapping that wouldn't be totally outclassed by NRG. Any suggestions/advice appreciated |
If you want to go with /Fire IO sets or a mitigation heavy primary like Ice is the preference.
Between Energy and Electric I prefer Energy. /Energy has Power boost to assist with stacking stuns which elec lacks. Elec has chances for sleeps which lack the utility of stuns, Elec has Electric Fence where energy has Power Thrust, and /Elec's AoEs are KB heavy and have only a chance to stun which many blapper players find less useful. Energy is heavy on single target attacks which I prefer.
(My main is an Energy/Energy/Force Blapper)
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Ice/Elec/Elec, 4 ST holds (3 ranged 1 melee) the ST blasts are quick and hard hitting and can be used fast enough in melee range (not that it matters since your target's should be held). By far one of my funnest toons while leveling.
Over all /Elec actually offers more damage then /Nrg does, with an immobe DoT and hold.
The best thing IMO about /Elec is that there are more holds available to stack with Shocking Grasp, then there are things to stack with the stuns from /Nrg. (granted /Nrg can stack Stun and total focus, but the activation on that is WAY too long compared to firing a ranged hold and then shocking grasp).
All this is of course IMO.
Active 50s:
Zero Defex: DP/MM//Mace Blaster
Mutant X-7: Fire/MM//Mace Blaster
Running my Kin/EA gloriously
Come on I21!!!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Sure, the devs are supposed to listen to their customers, mister business 101 out there. And if I decide to start suggesting that the devs change the game from being about superheroes and supervillains to being about clowns that is my right as well, and technically Paragon Studios is supposed to pay attention to me. But I hope strongly that they assume a meth-head somehow managed to hack into my forum account and make paper airplanes out of my posts, because I hope they recognize stupid when they see it. I assume they will recognize futile just as accurately.
|
i blapp with my fire/elec and its fun.
Quote:
Elec for sure no questions asked, but they do not combine for the same amount of energy.|
Originally Posted by brophog02
/Elec is my choice, hands down.
The biggest reason is that, while Energy and Elec both combine for the same amount of melee damage, it is dispersed differently. With a little recharge, you can get a very fast acting attack chain for /Elec with Havoc Punch, Charged Brawl, and Shocking Grasp while skipping Thunderstrike and its long animation. Whereas, more of Energy's damage is in Total Focus, which has that long animation. In terms of utility, Energy is handy (mostly for boost range).......but for blapping, I prefer Electricity. |
Even leaving out Thunderstrike and Total Focus, you still get more damage out of Shocking Grasp, Charged Brawl, and Havoc Punch when compared to Energy Punch and Bone Smasher.
Elec flat out does more damage than Energy althought Energy does have the benefit of having attacks that are primarily energy based over smashing based.
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
Quote:
This thread got me to thinking about an */ice blapper, and after doing a little research into the numbers I went ahead and made a psy/ice blapper. |
Originally Posted by trendee
I know NRG is the popular blapper secondary, I was just wondering if other secondaries make for good blapper secondaires.
Has anyone made an /elec secondary, this was the only other candidate that I could see had much potential for blapping that wouldn't be totally outclassed by NRG. Any suggestions/advice appreciated |
He's very young, at present, with his blasts all colored white so they look all "snowy", and I like his potential. The tier one and two powers in psy, and the AOE, all do -recharge (30% each, IIRC), which will stack nicely with the -recharge in */ice. Telekinetic blast ups the DPA noticeably and has knockback, while Will Domination slightly ups the DPA and functions as another soft control. The slows in */ice also mesh nicely with the knockup in psy's AOE and the knockback in telekinetic blast.
In more general terms, and although they're virtually never talked about as such, */ice melee attacks are serviceable for blapping. They don't have DPA, DPE, or burst damage that is comparable to */electric or */energy. But, the */ice melee attacks recharge relatively quickly. With 95% recharge, you get recharge times of a little over 4 seconds for frozen fists and a little over 5 seconds for freezing touch and for ice sword. The recharge advantage of freezing touch over shocking grasp (10 seconds for freezing touch, to 15 seconds for shocking grasp) allows an appropriately slotted freezing touch to perma-hold bosses as of its second application, even if you have no other hold power. If you have a fast-activating, hard-hitting tier three in the primary, you can have an unbroken, repeatable attack chain with that one primary power and the three */ice melee attacks. Plus, the strong mitigation potential of */ice is not a bad thing to bring along to a team, or when soloing.
*/ice will never be a FOTM blapper set because of smaller orange numbers and because extreme high end IO builds will tend to favor */energy or */electric. But, sustained damage output will be quite reasonable for an */ice blapper, and mitigation will be noticeably better.
Quote:
You're leaving out power thrust, which is what makes up the difference. Elec's 4 attacks beats out Energy's 4 attacks by a very narrow margin........which makes sense, considering two of the attacks in each set are essentially identical. |
Originally Posted by Novella
Elec for sure no questions asked, but they do not combine for the same amount of energy.
Even leaving out Thunderstrike and Total Focus, you still get more damage out of Shocking Grasp, Charged Brawl, and Havoc Punch when compared to Energy Punch and Bone Smasher. Elec flat out does more damage than Energy althought Energy does have the benefit of having attacks that are primarily energy based over smashing based. |
Now, if you want to count in things like lightning field, then that's a different story.
Quote:
I'm not leaving out Power Thrust because most of the people that take Energy do not use that power for damage reasons where as all the people that slot the melee attacks of Elec do use them for straight damage.|
Originally Posted by brophog02
You're leaving out power thrust, which is what makes up the difference. Elec's 4 attacks beats out Energy's 4 attacks by a very narrow margin........which makes sense, considering two of the attacks in each set are essentially identical.
Now, if you want to count in things like lightning field, then that's a different story. |
If PT is slotted for damage then sure the gap is smaller, but Elec is still ahead in damage, but if it is slotted for its utility, ie KB then the gap is a lot more than marginal. If someone slotted SG from Elec for its secondary function the damage is still 50% greater than Power Thrust.
In the end its all a matter of personal choice, but Elec is still hands down without a doubt the best secondary that a Blaster can use for melee attacks.
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
Quote:
When you try to disclaim what I said, you certainly are........since I am counting all of the melee attacks together. If you are going to disagree with that statement, then you have to actually consider the statement you are disagreeing with. Otherwise, there is no point referencing it. |
Originally Posted by Novella
I'm not leaving out Power Thrust because most of the people that take Energy do not use that power for damage reasons where as all the people that slot the melee attacks of Elec do use them for straight damage.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Novella
If someone slotted SG from Elec for its secondary function the damage is still 50% greater than Power Thrust. |
The other two attacks in each set are a wash, as they are essentially the same attacks.
This is how the sets are balanced. They are made to be similar sets, from a total damage standpoint. TF is higher than TS, but PT is lower than SG.
I posted why I like /Elec over /Energy, based on how the damage of the four attacks is distributed. The flipside of that is some people may not like SG being a DOT due to the possibility of "wasted" damage. There are a lot of factors to consider in how this plays out. That shouldn't change the actual numbers, though.
Quote:
Regardless of your comment Elec still does more damage than Energy which is what I said in the first place. Doesn't matter if you include the power or not and it doesn't matter if its marginal or not.
|
Originally Posted by brophog02
When you try to disclaim what I said, you certainly are........since I am counting all of the melee attacks together.
What people do with it is up to them. It doesn't change the statement I made. |
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
Quote:
I never denied that the sum total of Electric did more damage........I was very specific in what I said. |
Originally Posted by Novella
Regardless of your comment Elec still does more damage than Energy which is what I said in the first place. Doesn't matter if you include the power or not and it doesn't matter if its marginal or not.
|
If you are going to quote someone and disagree with them, then you have to actually take into account what they said. Otherwise, there is no use because you're not really disagreeing with them, but with something else entirely. It's confusing for everyone and has taken me several posts to unnecessarily clarify because you're making a different statement, entirely.
You didn't have to keep replying. This was never an arguement.
The OP has since moved so you're not really clarifying anything for anyone besides yourself.
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
Quote:
I've played both /Energy and /Elec to 50 as blappers. Both were very fun, and how both play will obviously be very much affected by your primary.|
Originally Posted by trendee
I know NRG is the popular blapper secondary, I was just wondering if other secondaries make for good blapper secondaires.
Has anyone made an /elec secondary, this was the only other candidate that I could see had much potential for blapping that wouldn't be totally outclassed by NRG. Any suggestions/advice appreciated |
I played the Sonic/Elec first - I did quite a lot of soloing on her (which she was very good at), but also joined teams and generally felt very useful despite being mostly single-target (I didn't take the cone from Sonic). I didn't find her too prone to dying, I could generally take out anything that was attacking me, and did honestly feel I was playing more of a Scrapper role on teams, bouncing around to take out mobs attacking other squishies and so on. She was extremely fun to play, I was a bit shocked when she got to 50 really as it was never really a grind. I wasn't on my home server, so it was almost all solo and PuGs, and she waltzed through it.
Next I made the Ice/Energy. I didn't do this so much because it was an FoTM powerset, I just really like Ice Blast and was wanting to try out /Energy after getting the first blapper to 50. Some people had told me they found it boring, but she was very fun (and very quick!) to level, but it was almost all done as part of a duo with a Rad/Sonic Def. They were brilliant together. Post-50, I found that solo she felt a bit meh, that she couldn't stand up on her own nearly as well as the Sonic/Elec, and that on large teams I just feel a bit useless, especially if running low level TFs. I just end up feeling like I could be contributing more on another toon. However, I suspect this could be changed with a re-build; she's still really oriented towards the duo I levelled her in, and I've no doubt she's still very fun to play in that situation - it's just not one I find myself in much since I got her to 50, as I tend to play my 50s more in TFs.
Obviously these are very much personal experience and opinion rather than the hard numbers, but in the end, you're better off on the set you find more fun, or that fits how you'd like to play better. Best to pick one and try, and if it doesn't fit (or you have so much fun you want to do it all again), try the other! I'd suggest asking about for primary suggestions too if you're not sure, as that certainly makes a huge difference - neither of those were the first /Elec or /Energy I'd tried, they were just the first that I enjoyed and stuck with.
I can greatly recommend Sonic/Elec as a very versatile combination though; I'm tempted to pay to move mine to my home server or level another, as I'd love to have two different builds on her to make use of the different possibilities!
Quote:
Oh but it is NOW... game ON! |
Originally Posted by Novella
This was never an arguement.
|
Has anyone successfully used fire as a blapping secondary? I realize it doesn't have many melee attacks, but as a secondary, it does seem to have a lot of pbaoe type of attacks/toggles. It seems designed for players to jump in the middle of the fray, and may work with a control heavy set like ice or maybe psychic? Any suggestions?
Quote:
Electricity or Rad paired with /Fire are good PBAOE suicide candidates. |
Originally Posted by trendee
Has anyone successfully used fire as a blapping secondary? I realize it doesn't have many melee attacks, but as a secondary, it does seem to have a lot of pbaoe type of attacks/toggles. It seems designed for players to jump in the middle of the fray, and may work with a control heavy set like ice or maybe psychic? Any suggestions?
|
Quote:
I have an Elec/Fire built for doing that - extremely fun, but an aggro magnet. She also really ate through endurance in the early levels, and because I went with the AoE build from the outset, she wasn't really much use solo or duo, and was reliant on getting teams.|
Originally Posted by trendee
Has anyone successfully used fire as a blapping secondary? I realize it doesn't have many melee attacks, but as a secondary, it does seem to have a lot of pbaoe type of attacks/toggles. It seems designed for players to jump in the middle of the fray, and may work with a control heavy set like ice or maybe psychic? Any suggestions?
|
However, on good teams, she was fantastic - one of the best teams I've ever been in - and this must be at least a couple of years ago now, and I still remember it - was a PuG led by a very good Ice Tank while I was playing my Elec/Fire with some brilliant support along side. So much fun.
Speeking of aggro magnets, my Ice/Ele/Ele is a bit of an unconventional blapper. Aim + BU + Blizzard + pop a blue + head into melee, use Power sink, and blapp it up while Blizzard whittles'em down. The benefit there, too, is that they're all slowed really bad so I don't aggro too much. Works pretty well even without a tank, not to mention that Aim & BU are still up by the time Power Sink hits so I can fire off a Thunderstrike immediately if I want to. I know it has a long activation time, but I still like it.
And as far as speed & quickness goes, Energy Punch & Bone Smasher both have pretty good numbers on them and a super-quick activation time (IMO), so /NRG is still pretty good for blapping. But I agree, /Ele is my favorite choice.
Quote:
Of course. |
Originally Posted by Tenacious_T
And as far as speed & quickness goes, Energy Punch & Bone Smasher both have pretty good numbers on them and a super-quick activation time (IMO), so /NRG is still pretty good for blapping.
|
The only difference between Havoc Punch/Charged Brawl and Bonesmasher/Energy Punch is the secondary effects. Every other aspect of the respective powers are the same.
Quote:
This seems odd to me. On my I/E/E fighting against +2s or +3s, I can use Aim + Build Up + Blizzard and it will kill just about everything standing except for the Boss/es. In that situation Bosses take at least 50% total damage so there really isn't much to kill off afterward. I guess my question is what exactly are you closing to melee to fight other than a boss or two?|
Originally Posted by Tenacious_T
Speeking of aggro magnets, my Ice/Ele/Ele is a bit of an unconventional blapper. Aim + BU + Blizzard + pop a blue + head into melee, use Power sink, and blapp it up while Blizzard whittles'em down.
|
Also what is unconventional about your Ice/Elec/Elec?
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
I know NRG is the popular blapper secondary, I was just wondering if other secondaries make for good blapper secondaires.
Has anyone made an /elec secondary, this was the only other candidate that I could see had much potential for blapping that wouldn't be totally outclassed by NRG.
Any suggestions/advice appreciated