Changing how mez attacks work


Basilisk

 

Posted

I don't know why I can't stop making suggestions, even when I know that few of them are ever implemented. I just love this game and desire to see it improve.

I think holds and knockback are some of the more interesting effects in the game. Everybody hates being held or knocked back, though, because these effects can get you defeated very quickly. I think it would be fun to change status protections to resistances and percentage chances of avoiding status effects. That way, even tanks can get knocked around every once in a while, or held for a second or two. Really just a second or two before they overcome the effect. Tankers would suffer a 1 in 10 chance of knockback.

Scrappers would be held for three seconds, maybe four if they are super reflexes and have avoided most of the mez attacks anyway. They would suffer a 3 in 10 chance of knockback. Defenders and controllers and blasters would be held for tive or six seconds. They would suffer a 50% chance of knockback. Something like that.

In this scenario, holds just slow you down, they don't mean instant death while your helpless for ten or twenty seconds. I don't know how long the enemies holds last in PvE, but when I get held by a Rikti boss, it's game over if I'm solo. Feels like twenty of thirty seconds, but probably isn't that long. It's too long, though, I think.

I think each player should be considered a "boss" and have some resistance to these effects. I think short duration mezzes that don't mean certain death for players without break frees are the way to go.

Just an opinion.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeroJunkie View Post
Everybody hates being held or knocked back(...) I think it would be fun to change status protections to resistances and percentage chances of avoiding status effects. That way, even tanks can get knocked around every once in a while, or held for a second or two.
Do I need to draw the flowchart here?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
Do I need to draw the flowchart here?
What?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeroJunkie View Post
What?
The quote he said that about had you saying people hate getting knocked back at one point, then later suggest a system where everyone would get knocked back. I think that was his point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

See, the thing is... Tanks *can* get knocked back or mezzed, if the mag is high enough. (And depending on set, as well.) I've had my tank get insta-mezzed when I got slapped with two Master Illusionists and their summoned friends all at once. They're just tougher to do so with - as they're supposed to be.

Basically, if a tank gets knocked back (non-Fire, non-Dark) you know it was a really big hit - as it should, IMHO, be. "Chance for," I'm not so thrilled about.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
The quote he said that about had you saying people hate getting knocked back at one point, then later suggest a system where everyone would get knocked back. I think that was his point.
Ahh. I'm saying that people hate getting knocking back or mezzed because it gets them defeated. But it the mez was short duration, it wouldn't be so bad, more like a slow. Likewise a chance of getting knocked back is not so bad as getting knocked back every time. I think that knockbacks and mez should be kept in the game, but I've seen quite a few posts suggesting more mez protection for everyone, because nobody likes being held for twenty seconds while the bad guys beat you down. But if mez duratoins were short, and knock backs were less frequent, they would keep the flavor but not the drastic consequences.

Is that more clearly stated?


 

Posted

Spending twenty seconds of a forty second fight getting knocked on your behind and standing up again is not any more fun than being held for twenty consecutive seconds, though the former does at least give you a chance to use inspirations.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeroJunkie View Post
Ahh. I'm saying that people hate getting knocking back or mezzed because it gets them defeated.
Ah, see, I dispute that. I hate getting knocked back or mezzed because it's not fun, full stop.


 

Posted

you aren't aware how mezzes work in pvp are you?

All I have to say is this is a terrible idea.

Edit to put why more so of a reason some types of charters dipend an offensive toggles that drop while mezzed and even if it's for just a fraction of a second it could mean certain death.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
Ah, see, I dispute that. I hate getting knocked back or mezzed because it's not fun, full stop.
Well, you could be in the majority; I don't know. I just like the idea of a tough character getting trapped in ice for one or two seconds, then smashing free. To me it's a little more interesting than just being totally invulnerable to everything. It's like, when Superman fights a tough villain, sometimes even he gets knocked around a bit. It doesn't mean he's out of the fight. Physics, even superhero physics, dictates that when someone with superhuman strength strikes someone who weighs only two or three hundred pounds, sometimes the superstrong punch lifts or throws the target. Doesn't mean the target can't survive the punch if they are tough, it just moves them. You see it all the time in superhero movies. Two tough characters knock each other around, through walls, etc. but they get back up and continue the fight.

My understanding is that all or most toggles are suppressed but not dropped when mezzed, so a very short mez shouldn't mean certain death. (This responding another previous post.)


EDIT: It's true I don't know jack about PvP.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeroJunkie View Post

EDIT: It's true I don't know jack about PvP.
Bring in your most mez-proof tank in PVE. I bring in my Dominator or Controller. Everywhere else in game, you could really ignore me (ignoring, of course, that it's PVE.) In PVP - you are held, period. Mez protection turns into mez *resistance,* and holds have a (from memory, this could be wrong) four second base hold.

Now how one translates into the other (mag 15, say, protection = what resistance,) I couldn't tell you. But *everything* in a PVP zone does that - including mobs. Which makes it a bit irritating. And also IIRC hold enhancements enhance the duration - turn off your mez protection and I could hold you for double or triple the time, conceivably (and then there's Domination - which might be the triple time I'm thinking of.)

Of course, the zones have been so empty for so long it catches you by surprise just to run INTO someone else...


 

Posted

Half right about the holds Memphis the base duration for controllers and dominators is 4 seconds everyone else is 2 seconds.


 

Posted

One more question.

What happens to the aggro your Tank is holding for the team when he's getting knocked flying where he never was before?


However, it turned out that Smith was not a time-travelling Terminator

 

Posted

Quote:
Now how one translates into the other (mag 15, say, protection = what resistance,) I couldn't tell you.
Don't quote me on this but I believe the formula is 1 mag = 10% resist in pvp. So mag 15 = 150%. Which in turn makes mezzes 1 / 2.5 of their normal duration. In general, resisted mezzes are 1 over 1 + resists in duration.


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Posted

If the devs were to go through and remove some 98% of mezzes from NPC characters, then I *might* support something like this, but as it is, mezzes are WAAAAAAAYY* too prolific for something like this to even be considered. Virtually every group has some way of taking you out of the fight, every fight, and the only way to keep ahead of it with a non-mez-protected character is to quickly kill or otherwise disable the offending mobs, or to ensure you stay the hell out of their range, and neither option works terribly well for melee characters, hence why they have the mez protection in the first place.

Look at the Metal Smasher, for example. Spawns at level 28+ as a minion. Comes equipped with one attack, Hammer Clap, that does a knockback effect and a Mag 2 disorient (50% chance each, 8.26s duration on the disorient), as well as two melee attacks with a chance to disorient (50% of Mag 1, 8.26s). Assume now that you're tanking for a team and you come across a spawn with 10 of these guys, rare, but not impossible. That's 30 attacks in the first few seconds that have a chance to cause some sort of bad to your tank. The odds of one enemy not landing a single disorient effect in their attack chain, then, is 1 in 8. The odds of this hypothetical mob not landing a disorient during their alpha is (and I assume I did my math right- been a while since I did stats) 1 in 1,073,741,824. That doesn't count the knockback. The only reason we don't get to see those astronomical odds is the fact that we have mez protection which keeps us safe from those paltry mezzes.

Freaks aren't the only ones with liberal use of mez and knockback. Rikti, Lost, Council, virtually all villain groups have some minion or another with at least one mez or knockback effect. Even the ones that don't make any sense, like the CoT crossbows. What, is my hero made of helium?

And yes, mezzes suppressing defensive toggles- even for a second- can easily make things go bad in a mighty fast way, particularly in AV or EB fights. One mez, followed by a hard-hitting attack while your character has no defenses, and it's game over, sucker. Come to think of it, it would probably be even worse in a packed mob. first guy hits you with a mez, and in the next second, you're smacked by his 15 buddies for everything that they've got. A tank *might* survive that, if he was at full health and the enemies aren't particularly hard hitters. Plus, because it's coming in in 15 bursts of damage, the one-shot code won't do you a damn bit of good.

In short, the heroic escape from a bind might work well in comics, but it won't work in this game.

*Shortened for legibility


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