Electric Armor - Grounded Not Working Correctly

Faught Diabolique tonight, She kept me on my butt repeatedly. Have Grounded slotted with 3 resistances and Have a Karma KB Protection in Combat jump (So i dont get knocked around while making small adjustments while herding mobs) and She kept me on my butt nearly perminantly.

Grounded Shows the following..

KB resistance IO (Karma) 4 Points of KB Protection

Grounded (Electric Armor Auto Power) 15.5 Points of KB Protection

Total of 19.5

Diaboliques Force Bolt showed hitting for 13.5 Points of KB

This SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED!!!

Has anyone else seen or experienced the same problems with Electric Armor Tanks Heroside? Counterparts say that Villainside brutes do NOT experience this problem. So The only explaination would be that the developers coded grounded incorrectly and were not aware of what happened when fighting things such as Nemesis, Diabolique, Dr. Aeon or even Lord Recluse.

The electric set itself has shows to be EXTREMELY resiliant, and very sturdy even even in the heaviest of fighting. But this one problem may do it in for me. I was hoping to make this a heavily used STF tanker, but now it seems it's not much different then Dark or Fire Armor. I can run STF's fine with my fire tanker, but being put on my *** repeatedly isn't fun.

On my Fire armor tanker I have 4 KB IO's (and had acrobatics on top of that and still got put on my ***) and it seems nothing over 16 matters with Proc style protection. LR will still put you on your ***.

Please post any problems with Electric Armor and Grounded not working in your experiences.

Keep in mind that Grounded ONLY works if you are solid on a flat surface. On a hill (which the game doesn't count as standing on the ground, due to the sliding mechanic) or if you're jumping around, Grounded is NOT functioning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

She only knocks around those that can't take a joke in coalition chat... that's what I heard anyway.

Its "fought" not "faught". Glad to see your English still lags, Skippy.

And as said above, 99% of uneven surfaces disable Grounded. Stairs always get me with that as well. Im not sure how they coded it up, but its very quirky. Great when it does work tho.

Like others stated, whatever terrain you are standing on is a huge factor. Could you provide that information?

Wait a minute I've played my electric brutes for more than 2 years now they are both way over 50 like level 300 if I still would be gaining experience, and grounded works on ALL terrian for me unless I am flying or jumping and smacking guys, I never EVER EVER have seen it fail. Even when I do my jump attacks, it's so very very rare I ever get knocked back from it. I made a map loaded with kb guys too recently and have not seen any sort of knockback even when jumping and punching with 8 players worth of spawn on me. Odd.

I'll check it again though to see if there's some bug or nerf that shouldn't be there before I burn down anything.

Here are some Screenies of the STF we just finished, which I have a few questions about...

Picture #1...



Now in that Picture it does appear to exceed the amount of KB Protection that the Electric Armor Set provides Per Heroside Coding. I have 19.6, he hit for 25.9.

Now to relate this to my main problem "How come Invuln tankers and scrappers only have 10 in Unyielding, and they never get Knocked down, or knocked back?" This provides a few problems for Dark, Fire or Electric Armor tankers wanting to run STF's, and anyone that uses KB IO's instead of Acrobatics to save slots. Problem 1, you just wasted tons of money purchasing and making KB Protection IO's. Problem 2, It is obviously unrelaiable and you wasted a respec. Problem 3, It is apparent that KB IO's (And grounded) do not work correctly. Improper coding? Who knows.



Now in this screenie, it appears to actually be "debuffing" my KB Resistance. Now if it is LR or the Towers doing it is still to be decided, but Just for the record, NO I did not move one inch everytime he knocked me back. I did this for 2 reasons. If i was in an "uneven" position, when he knocked me back he would put me into a new position and the new position could possibly be a more even place to stand, thereby making Grounded work properly. 2, I was taking tons of screenies once I realized it wasn't working properly. After 20+ times on my butt I find it hard to believe that I hit an "Uneven" place EVERY time.

One more thing, howcome he is debuffing KB Protection? Is it LR that is coded improperly? Or is it the Towers? I know that there has been an issue with Ice Tankers and Shield Tankers getting thier Defense Debuffed while the red tower is up, that is known and NCSoft still hasn't resolved it. My fear is that they have proof here that Grounded isn't working properly. It can be solved if they wish, but it is not working as of now. If addressed they should address the Defense Debuff associated with Shield and Ice Tankers so everyone can enjoy.

Ice Tankers use Wet Ice, And when Vengeanced and buffed out of my mind my ice tanker never got Knocked back, before it was 1 shotted by Recluse due to the Debuff issues surrounding the Towers. Can Ice tankers be used.... Yes. Is it easy? No. But the main point is, Wet Ice works and its on par with Unyielding. Howcome KB IO's and Grounded do not?

NCSoft please ensure that this issue is addressed. And please fix either the KB Debuff problem from the tower, or the innate problem of the KB IO's not working properly in the first place.

For the record, I have Grounded (Electric Armor Heroside) slotted with 3 resistances, and I have a Karma KB Protection IO in combat jump. I am going to try again with multiple steadfast Procs put into my armors to put myself over 27 points and I will post my findings.

Fair warnings folks, Grounded isn't working properly.

Grounded only provides knockback protection. It does not provide knockback RESISTANCE.

The status protection toggles and clickies also provide knockback RESISTANCE, which is why ten points is plenty. Having a zillion percent of KB resistance turns anything into knockdown, which 10 points covers EASILY (knockdown is knockback of mag ~.75 or less).

Unyielding from Invulnerability:
* RES(Knockback, Knockup, Repel) +10000%
* -10 Knockback, Knockup, Repel
* RES(Smashing, Lethal) +5%
* RES(Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative, Toxic) +10%
* -12.975 Stun, Held, Sleep, Immobilize

Grounded from Electric Armor (brute version; Red Tomax hasn't been updated with I16 proliferations):
* RES(Energy) +9.375%
* RES(Negative) +7.5%
* RES(Endurance) +69.2%
* -15.578 Knockback, Knockup
* -6 Immobilize
************
Slotting Grounded for resistance only increases the Energy and Negative Energy resistance values.
************
Regarding LR and the weird KB protection debuffing possibility, I have nothing to say. I have no idea on that one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

*raises hand*

We did this STF specifically to test the Electric tank's knockback issues previously encountered with Diabolique.

I was playing the sonic resonance controller, you can see my little buffs on the screenshot as Dulcet Meliai.

The facts are simply this: He was on even terrain. He never moved an inch from his position to point Recluse in another direction. Just stood there and took screenshots and I watched him on more than one occasion get knockbacked by Lord Recluse, several feet. Clearly by these screenshots he has Grounded running.

Ok, here's another one for you. If i am understanding what you are saying you are implying that Unyielding provides "Knockup" resistance. I am looking at my invuln now, There is no status effect Resistance that = Knockup RESISTANCE. Therfore it wouldn't matter. The whole subject I am referring to is Knockback "PROTECTION".

Unyileding provides Ten (10) points of Status Effect "PROTECTION", not resistance.

KB Protection is what I am talking about, and neither shows KB "RESISTANCE" in any of the real numbers I am currently able to access or view.

Understand, That the first thing that I want to state is that I want to know what the problem is. But currently I do not see your point. KB Protection is KB Protection, and Invulns dont get put on thier *****, while Fire,Dark and Elec does.

Apparently you are saying that there is a difference between "protection" and "resistance". If so, howcome NCSoft doesn't post them in the Real Time numbers that we pull up in the characters. Furthermore, why do KB Protection IO's only come in the form of "Protection" not "Resistance" so you can choose between the two?

This system is fundamentally flawed unless a direct line is associated between the two.

After Looking closly there is a difference, it's the "Repel" Protection.

Now here's my question... How come when Lord Recluse hit's me on my Electric Tanker his attacks are associated with Knockback Protection instead of the Repel Protection?

Repel didn't fluctuate in the Sreenshot what so ever. Therefore it leads me to think that it isn't a case of Repel, but it would lead to the conclusion that if what you say about it being a case of Knock up, or Knock back or Knock down then Repel Resistance is the key to solving this problem for Sets like Elec, Dark and Fire. Therefore forcing the Elec, Dark and Fire tankers to still take acrobatics or use KB Protection IO's in thier build. But enhance thier "Repel" protection to make them viable STF tankers.

WP and Unvuln are showing 10 Points of "Repel" Protection, and they NEVER get knocked down, or knocked back EVER!!! If that's the difference then NCSoft Needs to Put some kind of Proc out, or Enhance the Elec, Dark and Fire tankers to have Repel Resistance in thier mez Protection Armors, while still making the "Knockback" issue the same as it is.

I would happily purchase and slot a "Repel" proc if that would solve the problem.

Thoughts?

Real Numbers doesn't give you the option to view Knockback Resistance in the Combat Attributes, but you can see it if you go into the right-click info of the power. They give powers KB Resist on top of KB Protection when they want people to be absolutely immune to KB... For others, like Fire, Dark, and Elec, they just give the protection, so that it's theoretically possible for high mag KB to overcome the protection and knock you back.

Also there are Unresistable KB powers, like Statesman's, which will knock you back no matter what.

To sum up: without KB resist (which most sets have), you will get knocked back by very high levels of magnitude. In this case, you're getting hit by a -25.9 mag power and you have only 19.6 protection, so it beats you by 6.3 (see the second screenshot) and knocks you back.

Might be a good idea to PM Castle this thread to have him take a look at it since he is the powers guy.

Also it might be another good idea to bug it.

The afore mentioned tanker sets (Fire/Dark/Elec) all have other unique properties. The idea is to have different tanker sets, not just 1. And those sets play differently. Yeah Ive IOed to 11ptsKB prot with my Dark Armor tanker and he still gets bounced from time to time, but every 15seconds I can heal almost 1100pts for each target in range. I can tank Hami without the need for AB, AM, etc. Lets see an invuln or stone do that. (i do need EoEs, but I can heal alot more than hami can deal with EoEs up. And even then I done need them always up).
You found Elec Armor's quirk. Note that other than that Elec is really really good. Of cource it was gonna have something "wrong" with it. No armor set provides perfect protection.

Notice Below,

Ice, Fire, Dark and Elec do not have any Repel Protection

Stone, WP, Invuln and Shield do

it's a small differance and I have PM'd Castle about this problem. Now I am not sure if he is going to do anything about it or not, but for all of you Dark, Fire, Electric or Ice enthusiasts.... I am workin' hard for ya!!!

Through Karma or Blessing of the Zephyr you can bring tanks such as fire or dark to reasonable levels of knockback protection. In practice however 24+ KB protection granted by these IOs has not been enough to prevent knockback. This is no less than 5 KB protection IOs.

As Stryker stated earlier through IOs and Acrobatics he had achieved 27+ protection (which I'm certain goes above and beyond most KB this game can dish out at you) on his fire tank and still got knockbacked.

What we have here is a power (Grounded) that grants sub-par knockback PROTECTION in situational circumstances. I have not played an Electric Armour personally but the worth of this power is certainly being questioned. I am well aware of the other benefits this power offers, those benefits are not being brought to attention here as to not confuse the issue.

I think we can all agree that the 'tanker' archetype is supposed to be able to gather enemies(or get the attention of enemies) in large numbers and be able to survive and stand up to them.

There are 3 ( some say 4 ) tanks that cannot do the 'big' end game task force without difficulty when it comes to knockback with or without the use of KB IOs. This really brings into question of whether or not these tanks are worth playing at all since they cannot stand toe to toe with AVs that have high knockback powers.

I would like to note that I am not referring to survivability here. I am well aware that some tanks are more survivable than others thus making them 'superior'. I've seen invulns get hit pretty hard, as well as fire, ice, willpower etc etc and all that is needed in that circumstance is a good support character backing them up. Low hit points and low defenses can be worked around. Apparently there is no buff for Knockback Resistance. (If I am wrong, please point out a power fills this niche for me)

Well what about Increase density? It only offers Knockback Protection. This definitely could use some more testing but as it stands if you want to do STFs you only have 4 options no matter the support or IOs.

Has anyone with a fire/electric/dark with KB protection higher than 27 attempted an STF and not been KB'd? Can anyone try and offer their numbers here?

Has anyone playing an electric brute encountered this problem when completely still and on even surfaces? As far as I've been told, brutes don't have this issue.