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As it stands, ignoring AT modifiers (which simply make it worse because the ATs have horrible res debuff mods), the APP version has half the debuff, less than half of the area, 6 fewer potential targets, and one third longer recharge. Considering that Scrappers and Tankers (and Blasters) have the worst defense debuff and res debuff modifiers in the game and it just gets worse. It's considered bad for very good reasons. With AT mods, it's nearly 5 times worse (22.5% -res v. 9.75% -res, 150 sec rech v. 200 sec recharge, 16 targets v. 10 targets).|
Originally Posted by Vanden
This Pyre and Blaze Mastery power, added in Issue 13 for Tankers and 16 for Scrappers, has long been considered an unworthwhile power. This is because it has a very long recharge and costs an enormous amount of endurance to activate, and for those costs offers very meager debuffs.
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This is apparently a tradeoff for the power being AoE, but according to most players it just isn't worth it. So my suggestion is to remove the AoE and make the power single-target, and change the numbers thusly: End Cost: 22.74 -> 13 Recharge: 200s -> 24s Defense Debuff: 7% -> 14% Resistance Debuff: 9.75% -> 16.25% And this would be the new icon: 
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All those numbers I just stole from Poisonous Ray in the Mace Mastery pool (with the AT set to Scrapper/Tanker, of course). I figured looking at another APP single-target debuff would probably give me good numbers. The debuff in Melt Armor does last longer than Poisonous Ray's, true, but I figure that's the tradeoff for Poisonous Ray also doing damage.|
Originally Posted by Umbral
I would more than support this change. This would make me actually consider Blaze Mastery (because, as it stands, only Fireball is really worth it), though I doubt the recharge would be 24 seconds considering the 40 second duration of the power as it stands now. Even though the effect isn't self-stackable (which is probably why you support a 24 sec recharge), I'd be more than happy just getting the recharge reduced to 60 seconds so that it's at least internally permanent. If the debuff values get cranked a bit to make up for that, I'd be even happier.
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| As it stands, ignoring AT modifiers (which simply make it worse because the ATs have horrible res debuff mods), the APP version has half the debuff, less than half of the area, 6 fewer potential targets, and one third longer recharge. Considering that Scrappers and Tankers (and Blasters) have the worst defense debuff and res debuff modifiers in the game and it just gets worse. It's considered bad for very good reasons. With AT mods, it's nearly 5 times worse (22.5% -res v. 9.75% -res, 150 sec rech v. 200 sec recharge, 16 targets v. 10 targets). |
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
24 second recharge?!? 0.0
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Eh, it doesn't really make much sense, from what I can tell, to have a non-self stackable debuff that has a duration substantially longer than its recharge. If the attack actually dealt damage (as Poisonous Ray does), it makes a decent bit of sense because it's more of an attack with a secondary effect than purely a secondary effect, but as a pure debuff that can't stack, doesn't really make much sense.
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Originally Posted by Vanden
All those numbers I just stole from Poisonous Ray in the Mace Mastery pool (with the AT set to Scrapper/Tanker, of course). I figured looking at another APP single-target debuff would probably give me good numbers. The debuff in Melt Armor does last longer than Poisonous Ray's, true, but I figure that's the tradeoff for Poisonous Ray also doing damage.
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As someone who actually likes Melt Armor as it is, I'd like that change, but to be honest I also have to add I think it'd completely overpowered with the numbers you suggested (and that's why I'd like it 
).
I like the power as it is now. AoE meshes well with the AoE damage I am putting out in Blazing Aura and Foot Stomp (Fire/SS tank). On a team it works well with any other debuffs coming.
That being said I would not object to trying a single target version out. Don't think I would like it but I am the oddball here in liking the power as it is now 
I'm gonna bump this thread because I still think this is a good idea.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
In before Mod08 and his anti-Zombiethread hammer 
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I have to agree. As it is, I find Melt Armor worthless. :/
For missions, it's recharge just doesn't make it useful to take.
It's -Resist is resistable by anything with Resists. Not to mention it's a small amount of -resist to begin with.
So, you're not using it enough to make a real difference in spawn destruction.
For Tankers I can at least see it useful for added AOE taunting.
And it's effects on targets you really want the -resist on, is again laughed off, with again a LONG recharge time.
This is why I pushed for Heat Exhaustion. -Regen, even if not perma, I would of found more useful.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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That's true of every single resistance debuff in the game. While I agree that this version of MA isn't particularly good, this is not a valid complaint. Especially since -X% resistance -- even with the target resisting the debuff -- will increase the damage output against the target for each member of your team by exactly X%.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
It's -Resist is resistable by anything with Resists.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Okay, seriously guys? Derepping me for bumping this thread? Necroposting is bumping an ancient thread just for laughs and serves no purpose. This isn't necroposting because I didn't do it for laughs, I did it because I wanted to get this idea out there again, and hey, here's a thread I already made on the subject that says everything I would've said in a new thread.
You people think that just because necroposting is bad, ALL bumps of any old thread regardless of relevance must therefore be bad. Way to miss the point.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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As described in the forum rules and guidelines, necroposting has nothing to do with intent:|
Originally Posted by Vanden
Okay, seriously guys? Derepping me for bumping this thread? Necroposting is bumping an ancient thread just for laughs and serves no purpose. This isn't necroposting because I didn't do it for laughs, I did it because I wanted to get this idea out there again, and hey, here's a thread I already made on the subject that says everything I would've said in a new thread.
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| Thread necromancy - Necro-posting is responding to an old discussion thread and is a form of thread bumping. If you wish to discuss a considerably older topic, create a new post and link to the older discussion. |
Epic powers seem to suffer from this over-balance, especially when they cross ATs. At the very least, Melt Armour needs to account for the lower AT mods on debuffs on the ATs who get the Epic pools it's in. I don't specifically mind that it's AoE - it's a design choice, but it definitely needs to be stronger in order to matter.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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AT mods are why the melee ATs get hosed. I'm still not sure why Defenders and Controllers get Tanker grade self buff mods when they're intended to be squishy. Even if they don't get any native personal buffs (all of their buff powers use the ranged buff mods rather than the melee buff mods), Controllers and Defenders still get high melee buff mods. Tankers and Scrappers, on the other hand, because they're intended to be bad at ranged combat and support even though they don't get many ranged attacks (and those attacks use the melee damage mods anyway) or ranged buff/debuff powers, get saddled with crappy mods for all of those.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Epic powers seem to suffer from this over-balance, especially when they cross ATs. At the very least, Melt Armour needs to account for the lower AT mods on debuffs on the ATs who get the Epic pools it's in. I don't specifically mind that it's AoE - it's a design choice, but it definitely needs to be stronger in order to matter.
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The APPs have always sucked for the melee ATs specifically because melee ATs get crappy mods for the things they don't get natively and support ATs get high mods for everything except damage, even if they are supposed to be bad at them and don't get them natively.
...for Scrappers, Tankers, and Blasters.
This Pyre, Blaze and Flame Mastery power, added in Issue 13 for Tankers and 16 for Scrappers and Blasters, has long been considered an unworthwhile power. This is because it has a very long recharge and costs an enormous amount of endurance to activate, and for those costs offers very meager debuffs.
This is apparently a tradeoff for the power being AoE, but according to most players it just isn't worth it. So my suggestion is to remove the AoE and make the power single-target, and change the numbers thusly:
End Cost: 22.74 -> 13
Recharge: 200s -> 24s
Defense Debuff: 7% -> 14%
Resistance Debuff: 9.75% -> 16.25%
And these would be the new icons:
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.