Poor man's EM\SD build. Looking for any advice
By
Bill Z Bubba,
Posted on: 2009-09-21 11:02 in Scrappers
One other thing I forgot to mention.
With this build you can make it extra cheap by putting full sets of multi-strike into the Oblit and Scirocco spots until you can afford the more expensive ones and still retain a soft cap.
bump for some oppinions 
Sigh. I think public opinion holds that there "Will Be" no such thing as an inexpensive Shields build.
Anyone who gives advice for a poor man's build would be going against this "LAW"...or at least that is how it appears to me.
I am sooo tempted to make one using just common IOs, and a few easily gotten uniques and procs and see what I can see.
I mean, I cannot believe the Devs would give us such a wonderful eye candy powerset such as shields, and make it playable by only the wealthy...especially when they say you can play anything with SOs.
I bet if you had asked for a build using six LOTG recharge IOS, everyone and their granny would be giving advice
I hope I did not get anyone mad with my saying all this....I didn't mean to, it is just, I don't know....I can see the high priced IOs as being luxury items to add to your toon...but making them mandatory for game play....and to such a fun looking power as Shields which most everyone wants to play....
/Shields on the cheap....here I coomeeeee...splat
Lisa checks herself out of the hospital for the 100th time, and thanks the Devs for Patrol XP
So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try
***Dennis DeYoung
Looks like a good build to me, although it looks far from a poor man's build, you may want to check prices at WW. I think my mids' was bugged, because Phalanx Fighting wasn't affecting ranged defense 
anyone else seen this? I sorted it now though.
Quote:
How much do you have to spend? ToD, Obliterations and Basilisk's Gaze may be too expensive for you depending on your budget. When softcapping on a budget, remember that ranged and AoE defense are both cheap and trivial to get. Melee defense will be expensive and non-trivial to get. Find a way to get melee defense affordably and your problems are 90% solved.|
Originally Posted by Petsummoner
I'm enjoying my EM\SD and believe they will become my go-to scrapper for a long time. I've put together the build below, and I am looking for any advice.
Here are my "rules" - The build needs to be as inexpensive as possible. No purple sets, no blessing of zephyr knock back (specifically), no expensive uniques (I have the two healing ones already) - Have soft capped defense - Have plenty of AoE attacks - AV soloing, RWZ challenge, etc... are not considered. This seems like a pretty good build to me, but I have seen a lot of little suggestions here and there that may add a little more health, recovery, etc... |
I would take 1 slot from Chain Induction and use it to 6-slot Red Fortune in deflection instead. You can then 5-slot CI with Crushing Impact. This nets you 5% more recharge, and you are still softcapped.
Your True Grit is badly underslotted (you really want to get as much as you can out of the +HP it gives). I think Stamina is also slightly overslotted, if you are not going to get all 6 slots of Performance Shifter for the set bonus.
Gaussian's Rech/End will be difficult to find because it's a Pool C recipe. You might want to put up a bid for it ASAP (market availability is a bigger problem than price here).
Here's my revision of your build. More recharge and HP, slightly less recovery.
Code:
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Quote:
Shields is very playable on the cheap. My BS/SD, with all SOs except the Steadfast unique, does fine, and I'm now levelling an SO-only Fire/SD. It's usually said that Shields performs excellently with a big budget, but that doesn't mean it's playable only by the wealthy.|
Originally Posted by McCharraigin
I mean, I cannot believe the Devs would give us such a wonderful eye candy powerset such as shields, and make it playable by only the wealthy...especially when they say you can play anything with SOs.
|
Quote:
| Sigh. I think public opinion holds that there "Will Be" no such thing as an inexpensive Shields build. |
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Quote:
I think public opinion might turn out to be Lisa complains a lot about Shield being supposedly unplayable without billion inf builds in various threads, if you keep this up. | Sigh. I think public opinion holds that there "Will Be" no such thing as an inexpensive Shields build. |
Personally, I don't like the whole idea that AV soloing is done without insps, but you don't see me talk about it in every thread, do you ?
... Oh, wait.
Seriously though, it's one thing to ask for a cheap build, it's another thing to ask for a cheap build that is softcapped with tremendous AoE power (not picking on the OP, just using him as an example
). Not only you have to worry about market prices that are constantly fluctuating, but there's also all these self-imposed constraints ; it's a lot more work than making a "budget no object" build. Can you blame people for picking the easiest way, especially if it's the one with the most interesting results (at least in my opinion) ?
As for playability of any combo with or without IOs, personally I level to 50 with minimal IO usage - some frankenslotting here and there, and the "final IOs" I'd use on my level 50 build as I level. For example, when I hit 27 if I already have the slots available for it I'll stick a Kismet accuracy and Steadfast res/def (yes, I know the kismet would be just as good as a level 10, but I happen to have a bunch of level 30 saved up). I've found every combo I've played can handle way more than a +3/x1 mission. Way, way more.
Just yesterday I picked a level 38 Elec/Shield brute I only used in AE farms ; he had only common IOs in some slots, and half of the slots were actually empty. Yet with inspiration usage (you kill fast, they drop fast) he could take on a +1/x8 freakshow mission. I didn't have Stamina so had to Rest every 3-4 fights or so, but it was fine.
That's kind of a worse case scenario. On my alts with slots that are actually, you know, filled with enhancements, I'm usually going nonstop most of the time. I won't claim I never die (I do, a lot), but there's really no performance problem with common IOs in my experience, unless you define your "average gameplay experience" as taking on +4/x8 missions by level 30 without ever dying, solo.
Quote:
+1 |
Originally Posted by nihilii
i think public opinion might turn out to be lisa complains a lot about shield being supposedly unplayable without billion inf builds in various threads, if you keep this up.
|
Quote:
I've said in another thread that I would provide you a good cheap build for any shield build you wanted. You are still welcome to take me up on that offer. It honestly wouldn't be difficult to put together a build without using *any* expensive IOs and achieve very respectable performance. Will you be soloing AVs and Rikti pylons? No. Will you be running normal missions and TFs at high difficulty? Yes. |
Originally Posted by McCharraigin
Sigh. I think public opinion holds that there "Will Be" no such thing as an inexpensive Shields build.
Anyone who gives advice for a poor man's build would be going against this "LAW"...or at least that is how it appears to me. I am sooo tempted to make one using just common IOs, and a few easily gotten uniques and procs and see what I can see. I mean, I cannot believe the Devs would give us such a wonderful eye candy powerset such as shields, and make it playable by only the wealthy...especially when they say you can play anything with SOs. I bet if you had asked for a build using six LOTG recharge IOS, everyone and their granny would be giving advice I hope I did not get anyone mad with my saying all this....I didn't mean to, it is just, I don't know....I can see the high priced IOs as being luxury items to add to your toon...but making them mandatory for game play....and to such a fun looking power as Shields which most everyone wants to play.... /Shields on the cheap....here I coomeeeee...splat Lisa checks herself out of the hospital for the 100th time, and thanks the Devs for Patrol XP |
Once built you could keep the build as is or you could slowly upgrade it. I've built an electric/shield brute for practically nothing (in today's terms @ 60M) and upgraded it over time, so it's now soft capped and have decent recharge. I could make it better, but am pleased with the performance as is.
Laevateinn, thanks for your input and I like the changes. I'm going to be aiming for 200 million for a soft capped build (using multi-strikes) and will work on the oblits and scoro later. The touch of death shouldn't be a problem. I've got all but one of them with only 5 million inf (the proc dropped for me too).
The gaussen rare is pricey, but I've always been able to get one in the past. The basilisk gaze I got lucky and already have two of the rare ones on this character (they are around level 17 but all I care about our the set bonuses)
I posted a fix for the phalanx in mids here
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=191590
Here's my "significantly cheaper" than your "Poor man's" build. =)
Oblit's, LoTG's, ToD's, Aegis, all too rich for my blood. Serendipity, Multi-Strikes and Mako's for me, I've pulled off this build on the super cheap side on both my BS/SD and now my EM/SD. Sure, you sacrifice recharge and regen and some of the other nice bonuses, but cheap is cheap. I've also had to go with the Body Mastery epic over the new Fire set, and also had to take manuevers. But with CP and PP my endurance isn't as much of an issue anymore, and manuevers gets me to the softcap without the expensive recipe sets.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(3), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(3), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 1: Deflection -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def(36), S'dpty-EndRdx(43), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(43)
Level 2: Jacobs Ladder -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(9), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(9), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 4: Battle Agility -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def(34), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(46)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(25), Zephyr-Travel(50), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(50)
Level 8: Thunder Strike -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(13), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(13), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(15), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 10: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(17)
Level 16: Health -- RgnTis-Regen+(A), Heal-I(29), Heal-I(45), Heal-I(50)
Level 18: Chain Induction -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(19), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Mako-Dam%(23)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(23), EndMod-I(25), EndMod-I(45)
Level 22: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 24: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(27), RctvArm-EndRdx(27), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 28: Weave -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def(31), S'dpty-EndRdx(31), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(31)
Level 30: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(33), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(33), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(33), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(34), GSFC-Build%(34)
Level 32: Lightning Rod -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(36), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(36), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(37), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(39), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(39), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(40)
Level 38: True Grit -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(40), Heal-I(46), Heal-I(46)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def(42), S'dpty-EndRdx(42), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(48), EndMod-I(48), EndMod-I(48)
Level 49: Phalanx Fighting -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Whisky Jack,
That's a good cheap build. FYI, your ranged is over by 3.5 or so percent. You may want to make sure that you are accounting for the missing ranged defense in phalanx fighting.
As a suggestion. You can use the suggestion made above (that I plan to use) and trade out the 6 set mako's for a 5 set crushing impact and still be at cap. Then you can put an extra slot in active defense to keep it perma. Right now you have a 20 second gap in protection
Quote:
Doh, yup, I always 2-slot active defense. I was working off of your build instead of doing one from scratch, you had me messed up! =) I also like to take True Grit early in a build, in the pre-20 game you'll get alot more mileage out of those added HP's at 0 endurance cost than you will out of your two defensive toggles.
|
Originally Posted by Petsummoner
Whisky Jack,
That's a good cheap build. FYI, your ranged is over by 3.5 or so percent. You may want to make sure that you are accounting for the missing ranged defense in phalanx fighting. As a suggestion. You can use the suggestion made above (that I plan to use) and trade out the 6 set mako's for a 5 set crushing impact and still be at cap. Then you can put an extra slot in active defense to keep it perma. Right now you have a 20 second gap in protection |
Just a quick peek at whisky's build, you should switch the enhancement setup between jacob's latter and lightning rod. This will cause JL to take another .75 seconds to recharge, but will shave 14 seconds off of lightning rod and you still get the set bonuses. Anyways, that's a nice, cheap build. Good work.
My super cheap BS/SD (under 60 mil with market patience, easily). Relies on Parry to cap Melee, built without tough/weave....and uses the medicine pool instead (for AidSelf).
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Quote:
We can use insps??!?!!| Personally, I don't like the whole idea that AV soloing is done without insps, but you don't see me talk about it in every thread, do you ? |
Well that changes a few things...
Be well, people of CoH.
I'm enjoying my EM\SD and believe they will become my go-to scrapper for a long time. I've put together the build below, and I am looking for any advice.
Here are my "rules"
- The build needs to be as inexpensive as possible. No purple sets, no blessing of zephyr knock back (specifically), no expensive uniques (I have the two healing ones already)
- Have soft capped defense
- Have plenty of AoE attacks
- AV soloing, RWZ challenge, etc... are not considered.
This seems like a pretty good build to me, but I have seen a lot of little suggestions here and there that may add a little more health, recovery, etc...
This is using the latest Mids build. If the ranged defense doesn't show 46% then you haven't fixed phalanx fighting to include ranged defense yet
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Blaze Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(3), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(3), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), T'Death-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Deflection -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(36), RedFtn-EndRdx(43), RedFtn-Def(43), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 2: Jacobs Ladder -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(9), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(9), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 4: Battle Agility -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(34), RedFtn-Def(43), RedFtn-EndRdx(46), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 8: Thunder Strike -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(13), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(15), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), RechRdx-I(17)
Level 10: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(17)
Level 16: Health -- RgnTis-Regen+(A)
Level 18: Chain Induction -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(19), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Mako-Dam%(23)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(23), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(25), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(25)
Level 22: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 24: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(27), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(27), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Aegis-Psi/Status(29)
Level 28: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(31), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(31), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 30: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(33), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(33), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(33), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(34), GSFC-Build%(34)
Level 32: Lightning Rod -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(36), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(37)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Oblit-%Dam(40)
Level 38: True Grit -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(40)
Level 41: Char -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(42), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(42), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(42)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Phalanx Fighting -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit