Good to see someone is thinking outside the box and then jumping into the octagon pyramid.
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You'll get much more consistent performance out of a damage proc. |
Originally Posted by Karl_Rove_Man
Sorry to necro the thread, but this is a great source of information for any bots/traps!
I've got some questions on caltrops, and was wondering if anyone had some experience with this... First, my build has dropped one of the dmg procs in caltrops to fit in the Ragnarok chance for Knockdown. I'm really pleased with how it works...anything that isn't immob'd is knocked on its ***. What I'm thinking of doing is dropping another one of the dmg procs to fit in the pvp chance for -res IO. That would be an AoE -60% resistance if caltrops and acid mortar both proc. That's pretty huge when burn patches come into play.... Has anyone been able to afford one of these and give it a try? I might have one on test, but I'll have to check. |
All the resistance procs are short as hell. Acid mortar works because as I understand it everyone hit by every aoe grenade has a chance at getting hit by procs, and mortar itself is autohit. With something like caltrops, its a static 20% chance to fire every 10 seconds. You literally will not notice the difference.
A damage proc, on the other hand, will work well on everything. Drop caltrops under an AV, and instead of a highly resisted debuff thats there and gone in a second its a visible damage hit. The resistance proc will be wasted on anything not being attacked or not in a burn patch, damage is damage.
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I disagree. I may not have the PvPO proc in caltrops, but have it in 3 of my farming toons. Originally I dropped one heroside, put it in my Fire/Kin, it worked so well I picked one up for my brute and my dom. The proc is -Really- nice. If you can afford it.
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Originally Posted by spiritfox
You'll get much more consistent performance out of a damage proc.
All the resistance procs are short as hell. Acid mortar works because as I understand it everyone hit by every aoe grenade has a chance at getting hit by procs, and mortar itself is autohit. With something like caltrops, its a static 20% chance to fire every 10 seconds. You literally will not notice the difference. A damage proc, on the other hand, will work well on everything. Drop caltrops under an AV, and instead of a highly resisted debuff thats there and gone in a second its a visible damage hit. The resistance proc will be wasted on anything not being attacked or not in a burn patch, damage is damage. |
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Are they all 3 bots traps and the proc is in caltrops?|
Originally Posted by Not_Epsilon
I disagree. I may not have the PvPO proc in caltrops, but have it in 3 of my farming toons. Originally I dropped one heroside, put it in my Fire/Kin, it worked so well I picked one up for my brute and my dom. The proc is -Really- nice. If you can afford it.
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I didn't say the proc sucked. But it has to be in the right power. For instance, that same proc in thugs enforcers has a theoretical 90% uptime on a single target because each enforcer has 6 attacks that debuff defense. Its frequent in a claws brute, as strike is a key part of your single target chain and you'll use it even in AoE situations on bosses to make them easier to hit.
Caltrops, however, is a bad choice. Its a static location AoE with a fear component and a 10 second tick for procs. That means that on average it will go off once every 50 seconds, and be up for 5 seconds on whatever is within its 30 foot radius.
Compare that to acid mortar, which fires every few seconds for 60 seconds, every firing an 8foot targeted AoE that has a chance to fire the proc. One is useful, the other is largely not.
On something like an EB or AV or purple mob, they'll resist the resistance debuff and it won't last as long, giving you little to no discernible benefit (i mean, up two seconds every fifty? not worth it) and a damage proc by comparision would add a finite guaranteed bit of damage every so often.
In other powers, you're right. In caltrops, you're wrong.
One nit: the resistance procs aren't reduced in duration (or anything else) by the purple patch. The way those procs work is they grant the target a short-duration temporary autopower that applies the debuff. Since the target is effectively debuffing itself, the purple patch doesn't affect it. Of course, if the mob has resistance to a certain type of damage, it'll still resist the debuff for that type, but just being an AV or a purple mob doesn't have any effect.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
I did have one on test, and I'll have to play around with it a little longer....I didn't have an analyzer on me at the time so it is a little difficult to monitor.
However, it was my understanding that these resistance debuffs were unresistable, because of the way they are applied? This would make it more desirable against AVs. I can't remember where I read that though, so someone correct me if I am wrong. Edit: Thanks Muon!...so not unresistable, just not affected by the purple patch because it's as if the debuff is coming from an even-con source.
Caltrops would fire once every 10 seconds for 45 seconds (and is perma out of the box), and Acid Mortar would fire once every 6 seconds for 60 seconds. Normally these procs don't stack with themselves, but I'm pretty sure if you can get out double caltrops or double acid mortars they will because they are from different entities.
I'll let you know more once I actually play around with it...but after initial testing, I didn't really notice a difference. But that was against even-level mobs, so not really a suprise.
That was a good conversation going about the procs - are there any updates there?
I ended up sticking with 5 dmg procs and the KD proc in caltrops. I just didn't notice that big of a difference when playing around on test, and the dmg proc was easier to obtain on live.
Sorry to necro the thread, but this is a great source of information for any bots/traps!
I've got some questions on caltrops, and was wondering if anyone had some experience with this...
First, my build has dropped one of the dmg procs in caltrops to fit in the Ragnarok chance for Knockdown. I'm really pleased with how it works...anything that isn't immob'd is knocked on its ***.
What I'm thinking of doing is dropping another one of the dmg procs to fit in the pvp chance for -res IO. That would be an AoE -60% resistance if caltrops and acid mortar both proc. That's pretty huge when burn patches come into play....
Has anyone been able to afford one of these and give it a try? I might have one on test, but I'll have to check.