Fire/Rad/Stone
Yeah, it seems weird to me as well that if you're shooting for a very unconventional build, why would you post it, invite criticism, and then defend those unconventional choices.
My Fire/rad is STARVING for slots. I've been trying to shore her up with Hamis and set bonuses just so I can free up the odd slot or two. |
The most unusual thing in my build seems to be the lack of Fire Cages. I have loathed AoE immobs for some time, although in the case of contained Hot Feet I have a much higher tolerance for it. Of course, I always seem to team with those Fire controllers who run Hot Feet, use Fire Cages, and then stay at range anyway. I did want to take Fire Cages, but since I rarely have anything escape my Hot Feet anyway, I do not see the point.
Choking Cloud is often referred to as skippable, I am not sure why I need to hold enemies that are either stunned or debuffed so much they rarely hit. THe imps also help keep some aggro off me (although not a lot). I like Choking Cloud, though, and I am glad to see some recommend it, so I will defintely keep it in mind as a possible addition if I do have troubles.
I like to get information from people, even if they have playstyles that diverge from my own. I can parse the differences in playstyle pretty well normally.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
I could see skipping CC if you didn't have anything to pair it with, like Hotfeet or Artic Air. You have to go where Squishies fear to tread to get the most of CC, so it works best to have something to back it up.
The Chance to Hold proc in Cages hits A LOT. Way more than advertised, it seems, and if you pair that with CC (and yet another Chance to Hold proc) you can lock down damn near everything before you even have to thing about using Cinders (and its +Chance to hold proc)- mua ha ha!
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
I could see skipping CC if you didn't have anything to pair it with, like Hotfeet or Artic Air. You have to go where Squishies fear to tread to get the most of CC, so it works best to have something to back it up.
The Chance to Hold proc in Cages hits A LOT. Way more than advertised, it seems, and if you pair that with CC (and yet another Chance to Hold proc) you can lock down damn near everything before you even have to thing about using Cinders (and its +Chance to hold proc)- mua ha ha! |
The Devastation: Chance to Hold procs are great for my Fire/Fire blaster, who can use help in the mitigation area. My Fire/Rad controller doesn't seem to need more control, even when faced with adds and rooms of doom. I will indeed keep both those powers in mind if that changes and am very glad to hear people feel they work well as it helps influence my future decisions.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Well, I feel I received some useful information. I will admit I was a bit startled by so many comments on my lack of a travel, but that is not a big deal, I just felt like explaining that I (and my teams) have zero difficulty with or without a travel power.
The most unusual thing in my build seems to be the lack of Fire Cages. I have loathed AoE immobs for some time, although in the case of contained Hot Feet I have a much higher tolerance for it. Of course, I always seem to team with those Fire controllers who run Hot Feet, use Fire Cages, and then stay at range anyway. I did want to take Fire Cages, but since I rarely have anything escape my Hot Feet anyway, I do not see the point. Choking Cloud is often referred to as skippable, I am not sure why I need to hold enemies that are either stunned or debuffed so much they rarely hit. THe imps also help keep some aggro off me (although not a lot). I like Choking Cloud, though, and I am glad to see some recommend it, so I will defintely keep it in mind as a possible addition if I do have troubles. I like to get information from people, even if they have playstyles that diverge from my own. I can parse the differences in playstyle pretty well normally. |
Flashfire and Cinders have a fairly long recharge time -- one shot, and that's all you have for a while. Hot Feet is Slow/Damage/Afraid, but that alone doesn't stop them from shooting at you. Hot Feet takes a while for it to chip away at the health of foes, and it often takes longer than the duration of Flashfire or Cinders. Sure, the Imps can work on three foes at a time, but they do have a tendency to run off. Choking Cloud gives you a toggle hold that has a good chance to hold the foes long enough to be killed off by Hot Feet. Plus, it sets up Containment and stacks with Char, letting you take out Bosses in one shot most of the time. (Take a look at my Ill/Rad guide. I discussed the mechanics of the power there. Although I do not recommend it for an Ill/Rad for the reasons I state there, I love Choking Cloud on my Fire/Rad.)
Standard Strategy: From Range, I Flashfire + Fire Cages. The I run in with Hot Feet and Choking Cloud running. Hot Feet chips away at their health, and after a few seconds, Choking Cloud begins to show that it has a hold on most of the foes in range. As I stand there and let the two toggles do their thing, I look for anything moving and hit it with Char. It there is a Boss, I might hit him with Char first, then EF to chip away at his damage faster. Within a short time, the group is all dead, and I didn't have to work very hard . . . not nearly as clicky as a Fire/Kin.
If another group shows up and starts shooting at me (with Flashfire recharging), then I can hit them with Fire Cages and Radiation Infection, so they miss most of the time.
On teams, it is even easier. Let the tank run in to get the aggro -- I can save Flashfire or wait for the group to gather more tightly. Flashfire + Fire Cages or run in next to the tank and Cinders, or just Fire Cages to keep them all in the area (in case one was missed -- that way he'll have to stay around for CC+HF and have a chance to get hit by CC's hold). Stand there, char any straglers or anyone moving. The tank can then move on to the next group, knowing that I can finish up this one just by standing here.
It is even better with two or more Fire/Rads with the HF+CC combo. Everything in range is held very quickly, even bosses. All we have to do is run around, imps trailing behind, and everything dies. (It's like Amdro and Fire Ants . . . ) You ain't seen nothin' until you have seen a full team of Fire/Rads run though a mission/TF in record time. Just stay together, walk up to a group -- they all die -- walk up to the next group -- It's too easy.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Please note that there is no argumentative tone meant in my posts. I am offering counterpoints and asking questions, the discussion is very helpful to me and I thank all who have replied.
Standard Strategy: From Range, I Flashfire + Fire Cages. The I run in with Hot Feet and Choking Cloud running. Hot Feet chips away at their health, and after a few seconds, Choking Cloud begins to show that it has a hold on most of the foes in range. As I stand there and let the two toggles do their thing, I look for anything moving and hit it with Char. It there is a Boss, I might hit him with Char first, then EF to chip away at his damage faster. Within a short time, the group is all dead, and I didn't have to work very hard . . . not nearly as clicky as a Fire/Kin.
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I understand the stacking on a boss, but as I stated originally, I normally only run on small teams, so my boss fights are few, and then Char is plenty. I have run on big teams: with a tanker, I have no need of CC; the few big teams I have been on without a good alpha eater/aggro tanker, I think I could have made good use of CC. I am concerned once I turn my difficulty up, but I was thinking of only making the enemies spawn as if I was 6 players, which still keeps the boss count low. I was thinking about going +2, which would spawn +3s as well, and that might make the duration of Flashfire shorter than comfortable.
If I were to drop CC in, I know it needs slotting. I would drop Tough (and then Weave), which I have found to be very helpful at mitigating those surprise adds and the damage of those first few seconds before I have the lockdown/debuff applied, but CC does appeal to me as well. How would I slot CC, and is CC still useful vs. +2s and +3s?
If another group shows up and starts shooting at me (with Flashfire recharging), then I can hit them with Fire Cages and Radiation Infection, so they miss most of the time.
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On teams, it is even easier. Let the tank run in to get the aggro -- I can save Flashfire or wait for the group to gather more tightly. Flashfire + Fire Cages or run in next to the tank and Cinders, or just Fire Cages to keep them all in the area (in case one was missed -- that way he'll have to stay around for CC+HF and have a chance to get hit by CC's hold). Stand there, char any straglers or anyone moving. The tank can then move on to the next group, knowing that I can finish up this one just by standing here.
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It is even better with two or more Fire/Rads with the HF+CC combo. Everything in range is held very quickly, even bosses. All we have to do is run around, imps trailing behind, and everything dies. (It's like Amdro and Fire Ants . . . ) You ain't seen nothin' until you have seen a full team of Fire/Rads run though a mission/TF in record time. Just stay together, walk up to a group -- they all die -- walk up to the next group -- It's too easy.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
If almost the whole spawn is stunned and immobilized, what do you need the hold from CC for? By the time my Flashfire wears off, the minions are dead and any surviving Lts are held and/or seconds away from dead.
I understand the stacking on a boss, but as I stated originally, I normally only run on small teams, so my boss fights are few, and then Char is plenty. I have run on big teams: with a tanker, I have no need of CC; the few big teams I have been on without a good alpha eater/aggro tanker, I think I could have made good use of CC. I am concerned once I turn my difficulty up, but I was thinking of only making the enemies spawn as if I was 6 players, which still keeps the boss count low. I was thinking about going +2, which would spawn +3s as well, and that might make the duration of Flashfire shorter than comfortable. If I were to drop CC in, I know it needs slotting. I would drop Tough (and then Weave), which I have found to be very helpful at mitigating those surprise adds and the damage of those first few seconds before I have the lockdown/debuff applied, but CC does appeal to me as well. How would I slot CC, and is CC still useful vs. +2s and +3s? |
I haven't really played my Fire/Rad since I-16 hit, so I can't suggest how to set the settings. My Fire/Rad is just about my favorite character for the Statesman's TF, with its large numbers of foes, lots of add-ins, and with a good team, lots of fast moving action. I can't wait for FF to recharge for each spawn (unless we have a Kin speed boosting me, and even then not always). Because of the mechanics of CC, it doesn't always hold all foes in range, but the combination of HF+CC is great because those not held are slowed and "afraid" -- trying to run out of the area. Fire Cages holds them in the area, but stops the "afraid" mechanism so that they can take a shot or two at me before CC hits and holds them.
I use RI that way as well, but I have found it works fine without Cages, and it is often convenient to allow the enemies to move anyway so they collapse into a tighter spawn for easier removal. |
My Ill/Rad guide discusses the slotting for Choking Cloud. You want to cap the Hold duration, and get as much EndRdx as you can. It doesn't take accuracy, but you can sneak it in as part of a Hold set. However, My Fire/Rad has enough global Accuracy that I don't worry about it. I have the Lockdown Chance for +2 Mag in it, which I love. Due to the mechanics of CC, it really makes a difference.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Then you need to be fighting tougher/higher lvl enemies! More mitigation = surviving greater risks = more rewards and (imho,) more satisfying action!
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Since I pretty much ALWAYS go against +2 and +3, yeah, I would say it is useful.
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I can't wait for FF to recharge for each spawn (unless we have a Kin speed boosting me, and even then not always).
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The Containment for HF makes a huge difference, even if it only works 75% of the time. Plus, I have a Grav Anchor Chance for Hold, and a Trap of the Hunter damage proc. Those added benefits make Cages into a very effective control/damage tool. I have enough global accuracy that it hits quite reliably.
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Thank you all for the advice and discussion. It is very helpful for me to hear other peoples opinions and especially useful when they back it up with in-game experiences so that I can relate it to actual use and decide whether or not it would fit with my (and my friends) playstyle.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
I generally play my Fire/Rad in the way Local_Man suggests, but have Team Teleport in my second build for when my wife's Fire/Rad is with me.
The HF/CC combo is our bread and butter, and although we use Flashfire occasionally, it's not really needed. If anything, they're not level 50 yet because we play characters that are more challenging most of the time. We teleport in and by the time Cages fires off (to keep them in range and set containment), almost everything is held and dying.
You might consider a second build to see which way yields better results.
Edit: Keep in mind that both Hotfeet and CC are very slot hungry, so YMMV. I wouldn't consider giving them less then 6 slots each in most cases.
I've been thinking of making a Fire/Rad/Psi for the HF+CC+WoC combo, and Local Man mentioned Bonfire. Is the -KB in Fire Cages is enough to use Bonfire beneath the spawn without scattering it all over, or will it move the mob around anyway?
Also, I was thinking of just saying "forget it" to trying to get more defenses through IOs and instead slot for recharge, endurance modification/reduction, control, and damage. Do you think I'd still be able to manage without faceplanting all the time?
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
I've been thinking of making a Fire/Rad/Psi for the HF+CC+WoC combo, and Local Man mentioned Bonfire. Is the -KB in Fire Cages is enough to use Bonfire beneath the spawn without scattering it all over, or will it move the mob around anyway?
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However, on AVs, I like using Bonfire. It knocks away the others while we work on the AV, and adds a little extra damage. Choking Cloud provides little benefit on AVs, so I often turn it off.
Also, I was thinking of just saying "forget it" to trying to get more defenses through IOs and instead slot for recharge, endurance modification/reduction, control, and damage. Do you think I'd still be able to manage without faceplanting all the time? |
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I generally play my Fire/Rad in the way Local_Man suggests, but have Team Teleport in my second build for when my wife's Fire/Rad is with me.
The HF/CC combo is our bread and butter, and although we use Flashfire occasionally, it's not really needed. If anything, they're not level 50 yet because we play characters that are more challenging most of the time. We teleport in and by the time Cages fires off (to keep them in range and set containment), almost everything is held and dying. You might consider a second build to see which way yields better results. Edit: Keep in mind that both Hotfeet and CC are very slot hungry, so YMMV. I wouldn't consider giving them less then 6 slots each in most cases. |
I agree that both Choking Cloud and Hot Feet are slot-hungry. You might be able to get away with only 5 slots at level 50, but there are so many good things to put in an extra slot that it is worth while to use it. In Choking Cloud, I have a Lockdown +2 Mag proc, which I love.
because of the mechanics of CC, it will often lock down foes who would not otherwise be held.
In Hot Feet, I like to squeeze in a little Slow with the EndRdx, Damage and some accuracy. The slow keeps the foes in range longer, letting Choking Cloud have more pulses to hit its hold.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Just updating with my most recent build. I still do not have the procs in Health, although they would be very helpful (just too lazy to bother I guess ).
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Fire Puddles: Level 50 Mutation Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Emission
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Ring of Fire -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(3), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 1: Radiant Aura -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(19), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Dct'dW-Heal(34)
Level 2: Char -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(3), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(5), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(11), Para-Hold/Rng(15), Para-Acc/Hold/Rchg(40)
Level 4: Accelerate Metabolism -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(5), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(7), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(39), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(39), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(40)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(17), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 8: Hot Feet -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(9), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx(34), TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(40)
Level 10: Radiation Infection -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(17), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(37), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(37)
Level 12: Flashfire -- Amaze-Stun(A), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(13), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(13), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(15), Amaze-ToHitDeb%(23)
Level 14: Smoke -- DarkWD-Slow%(A)
Level 16: Mutation -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Boxing -- HO:Nucle(A)
Level 20: Tough -- ImpSkn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpSkn-ResDam/Rchg(31), ImpSkn-EndRdx/Rchg(31), ImpSkn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), ImpSkn-Status(45)
Level 22: Enervating Field -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 24: Lingering Radiation -- TmpRdns-Acc/Slow(A), TmpRdns-Acc/Dmg/Slow(25), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx(27), TmpRdns-Rng/Slow(42), TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(43)
Level 26: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(39), LkGmblr-Def(50)
Level 28: Tactics -- AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(29), AdjTgt-ToHit(29)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(37), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(46)
Level 35: Fallout -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(36), Posi-Dmg/Rng(36), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 38: Vengeance -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 41: Fissure -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(42), Posi-Dmg/Rng(43), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Rock Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45), LkGmblr-Def(46)
Level 47: Earth's Embrace -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(48), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(48), Dct'dW-Heal(48), Dct'dW-Rchg(50)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- Krma-ResKB(A)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Pyronic Total Radial Judgement
Level 50: Diamagnetic Core Interface
Level 50: Spiritual Total Core Revamp
Level 50: Clockwork Total Radial Improved Ally
Level 50: Clarion Partial Core Invocation
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- HO:Micro(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 6: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(23)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(21), EndMod-I(21)
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Yeah, it seems weird to me as well that if you're shooting for a very unconventional build, why would you post it, invite criticism, and then defend those unconventional choices.
My Fire/rad is STARVING for slots. I've been trying to shore her up with Hamis and set bonuses just so I can free up the odd slot or two.
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.