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Someone else can answer this, I tend to go crazy with recovery bonuses until I have way more than I need.|
Originally Posted by HwaRang
1. What is a good ratio for Endurance usage versus recovery for non WP/Regen and such toons? I know this is a "broad" question. For most powersets, I just do the standard 3 slotting of Stamina, use Atlas Medallion and mostly aim for 32% end reduction for most powers (more if needed).
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Originally Posted by HwaRang
2. "Typed" vs. "Positional" Defense, iirc, one generally trumps the other?
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In short: most powers will have at least one damage type (smashing for example) and at least one positional type (melee for example). When you have defense to both things, the higher one applies. Some powers only have the damage type (mind attacks for example) or the positional type (exotic damage), in which case if you base your defense too much in the type of defense they don't use, you're going to hurt.
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Well, personally, I try to aim for a 1:1 ratio between consumption and recovery, but that's factoring in attack string endurance consumption, which I doubt you're asking about incorporating. Even without attack string endurance consumption incorporated, I rarely, if ever, have a specific ratio in mind. There isn't really a reliable relation that I've been able to find that would support such an assumption. If you're not interested in simply doing a flat calculation of endurance sustainability (slightly time consuming but not particularly difficult), I've always found it better to simply aim for a passive surplus of roughly 2.5 end/sec at the very least, if not substantially more if I'm aiming for a top tier attack chain.|
Originally Posted by HwaRang
1. What is a good ratio for Endurance usage versus recovery for non WP/Regen and such toons? I know this is a "broad" question. For most powersets, I just do the standard 3 slotting of Stamina, use Atlas Medallion and mostly aim for 32% end reduction for most powers (more if needed).
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The required/desired surplus is, of course, dependent on the attack string in question. A low damage attack string such as would be used by a common IO leveling build is going to require a substantially smaller endurance surplus than a top tier AV soloing build that's packing on all the recharge it can so that it can eke out just over 200 DPS.
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| 2. "Typed" vs. "Positional" Defense, iirc, one generally trumps the other? |
Neither is really "better" though. Positional tends to be easier to get to higher values but has holes to position-less attacks whereas typed is simply harder to stack up with IOs because there are so many values that you need to get to cover all of your bases and most of the sets are sub-par otherwise.
Thanks for reply.
About point two (Defense), I understand; however, I don't know why I keep thinking that in some "rare" cases either Typed or Positional trumps the other, regardless.
Dovetailing from your example, let's say a Psi attack that is---ranged with smashing and psi damage---and I have both Typed and Positional Ranged at 20%, one of these can be overcome?
Might not be best example. Or am I just loony?
Thanks in advance.
Umbral, thanks for reply.
In your example, it'll use 20% defense. I'm not sure which defense is applied if all the three are the same, but it doesn't go on checking other defenses if one fails. That is, if your 20% psi def is "overcome" the game doesn't move on to check the attack again on the smashing defense.
Basically, the highest (only one if there are multiple equal defenses) defense type (ranged, melee, fire, smashing, etc.) applicable to the attack is used to determine whether you're hit or not.
Hope this clarified it... :S
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1. it doesn't really matter what power-set's it is, WP and Regen just offer QR which eases any endurance issues in general, the main concern of your endurance management needs to focus on your attacks and fine tune that focus on your attack-chain, ... |
Originally Posted by HwaRang
Hey folks,
Hope all is well. Because "Favorite Threads" have been wiped, I haven't had much luck finding my old piles of information and my "SearchFu" sucks. Two questions for a fuzzy memory: 1. What is a good ratio for Endurance usage versus recovery for non WP/Regen and such toons? I know this is a "broad" question. For most powersets, I just do the standard 3 slotting of Stamina, use Atlas Medallion and mostly aim for 32% end reduction for most powers (more if needed). 2. "Typed" vs. "Positional" Defense, iirc, one generally trumps the other? Thanks in advance. |
that's not saying to neglect your toggles, but they are just a side-effect on your endurance management and on average are fairly fine with a just one slot worth devoted to endred and any other slots devoted to whatever other aspects that you want from it that are enhanceable.
ideally you dont want to use more end then you gain, or you'll faulter is sustained battles, but situationally, many variables will play a part in the battle that can not be accounted for in pure raw data
2. Typed trumps Positional in Psionic (some psi attacks do not have a positional component)
&
Positional trumps Typed in Toxic (there is no type defence for toxic)
... other than that, they are pretty much the same (hit/miss is only checked ONCE against your strongest applicable value),
and depending on the power set's strength is where you'll want to build upon (WP, Ice, ect... provide typed def and so your better off building upon them then you are starting over and building on positional; SR, SD, ect... are positional based so your better off building on them then you are starting over trying to build typed),
but in general it is just easyer to build on Positional (3 catagories) as oposed to Typed (7 catagories) (such as in Regen, FA, ect... case where you start out with a blank def slate)
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Ah...it's look like i'm not that loony. Thanks for clarification about Defense.
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Originally Posted by Morbid Star
1. it doesn't really matter what power-set's it is, WP and Regen just offer QR which eases any endurance issues in general, the main concern of your endurance management needs to focus on your attacks and fine tune that focus on your attack-chain, ...
that's not saying to neglect your toggles, but they are just a side-effect on your endurance management and on average are fairly fine with a just one slot worth devoted to endred and any other slots devoted to whatever other aspects that you want from it that are enhanceable. ideally you dont want to use more end then you gain, or you'll faulter is sustained battles, but situationally, many variables will play a part in the battle that can not be accounted for in pure raw data 2. Typed trumps Positional in Psionic (some psi attacks do not have a positional component) & Positional trumps Typed in Toxic (there is no type defence for toxic) ... other than that, they are pretty much the same (hit/miss is only checked ONCE against your strongest applicable value), and depending on the power set's strength is where you'll want to build upon (WP, Ice, ect... provide typed def and so your better off building upon them then you are starting over and building on positional; SR, SD, ect... are positional based so your better off building on them then you are starting over trying to build typed), but in general it is just easyer to build on Positional (3 catagories) as oposed to Typed (7 catagories) (such as in Regen, FA, ect... case where you start out with a blank def slate) |
I will say this about the Defense.
Typed Defense is the Redheaded Stepchild of Defense. It usually harder/more expensive to soft cap it, plus you'll usually have a weakness to pure psi based attacks that have no extra effect to it, like Smashing or Energy added to said attack.
While Positional is the King & can withstand the Psi attack(so long as they are not the certain special attacks with no typed added to it). Its usually far easier & cheaper to Soft Cap yourself.
JJ
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Let me just scroll through the attack chain EPS for some IO'd builds, most of them from other people... 2.73, 2.8, 2.64, 3.02, 2.87, 2.98, 2.8, 3.36, 3.21, 2.69, 3.34, 2.73, 4.06, 3.43, 2.84, 2.6, 3.07, 2.9, 2.78... you get the idea. If that's a representative data set, the eyeballed average looks to approach 3 EPS. On most builds, it's perfectly fine to burn through maybe 0.5 EPS while fighting flat out, because there is time switching targets and time between spawns and there are blues. So yeah. As a VERY vague rule of thumb, you could target about 2.5 EPS for recovery minus toggles.
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Originally Posted by Umbral
If you're not interested in simply doing a flat calculation of endurance sustainability (slightly time consuming but not particularly difficult), I've always found it better to simply aim for a passive surplus of roughly 2.5 end/sec at the very least, if not substantially more if I'm aiming for a top tier attack chain.
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I tend to aim for 3,7-3,9 on my /dark scrappers... with about 1,2 to 2,1 eps spent on toggles, sometimes even more since i like to keep sprint/superspeed all the time (even in caves). I either eat blues, have enough time between fights, or just begin to shut off the toggles i don't need when i'm up for a long fight.
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This is why I said "2.5 end/sec at the very least". Running with higher tier attack chain, I'd definitely aim for more endurance (though I would probably know the exact end/sec that I need to run simply because I would have calculated my end/sec consumption using the attack string anyway). |
Originally Posted by Werner
So yeah. As a VERY vague rule of thumb, you could target about 2.5 EPS for recovery minus toggles.
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This is also why I didn't outright say "2.5 end/sec". I qualified the statement. I gave that as the absolute minimum that I would give myself. The requirements for endurance sustainability change with every build you'll have (and often with different iterations of the same build) so it's impossible to give a flat "this much end/sec is how much you'll need".
Hey folks,
Hope all is well. Because "Favorite Threads" have been wiped, I haven't had much luck finding my old piles of information and my "SearchFu" sucks. Two questions for a fuzzy memory:
1. What is a good ratio for Endurance usage versus recovery for non WP/Regen and such toons? I know this is a "broad" question. For most powersets, I just do the standard 3 slotting of Stamina, use Atlas Medallion and mostly aim for 32% end reduction for most powers (more if needed).
2. "Typed" vs. "Positional" Defense, iirc, one generally trumps the other?
Thanks in advance.