Inv or Shield?

I'm wanting to build a new Tank when I-16 goes lives. I know I want my secondary to be /ElecM. But I can't decide between Inv or SD. I've been wanting to make a Shield Tank since they came out, but I always wanted an Inv tank as well.

No PVP will be done with this toon. Some soloing, but I mainly team with my tanks. I want an unstoppable machine, so I'm pretty much just wondering which would be better for all out PVE.

Thanks in advance for any answers, cause I'm goin' to bed. lol.


P.S. How is ELA/ doing on the tanks on test? Could possibly make him all Electric.

Electric Armor isnt bad for Tanks, though still lackluster in a sense that Fire Aura isnt as survivable as Invul etc etc.

As for the Shield or Invul question, both are great sets. For teaming though, I'd say Invulnerability. Check out Call_Me_Awesome's invulnerability and the Defense Softcap guide for slotting advice. Allow to explain this decision.

Shield is well known for its +DMG Taunt Aura and ability to softcap positional defense with a bit of cash. The set does come with Grant Cover which is, in all honesty, mediocre. The set itself is pretty good on Endurance, and comes with the nifty shield charge. However, survivability is ultimately your goal, and Invulnerability shines there with high resists and typed defenses. It also comes with a Self Heal and +HP Clickie that Shield lacks, as well as alot of Def Debuff Resistance with the recent (not that recent, but whatever) Invulnerability tweaks. Your damage output wouldn't be great single target, but your AoEs (Thunder Strike, Chain Induction (kinda) and Lightning Rod) will make holding aggro on multiple groups much easier when coupled with Invincibility and Taunt. Shield's ability to put out extra damage is based on the number of mobs around you, and that shouldn't be a concern of yours. On teams you need to hold aggro of big spawns and of single AVs alike, and Survivabilty is key in that area.

Not to mention having 2 attacks that teleport you is just silly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler you *******!!!!

I find my Inv tankers are more versatile than my Shield tankers. If you want an "unstoppable machine" in PvE, I'd go that way.

Shield is a positional defense set with offense added. The offensive powers, a damage boost and a solid AoE attack, are lots of fun. And at level 50 it is quite adequately tough, though lacking a real panic button power. But it suffers from a problem common to defense sets --- when you exemp down, you lose access to powers, which means that you lose entire types or positions of defense you'd come to rely on. This is hard to adjust to. For fun, invite a reflex scrapper to a Positron run. You'll see what I mean. This will be partially ameliorated, but not eliminated, in i16.

Invuln remains my first choice of tanker when I want to exemp down to run lower level task forces. It does become somewhat stronger as it grows, but its performance is relatively consistent from level 15 to level 50. The things you are strongest against are consistent. The things you need to watch out for are consistent. Inv has several panic buttons; an early one (Dull Pain) and a late, optional one (Unstoppable).

I have never taken Unstoppable on a tanker. Inv has a relatively free build order; it is full of passives that can be postponed, allowing for slightly earlier Tough and Weave. Because it's positional defense, build order is more critical on Shields, and you generally want your defensive toggles as soon as they come into play.

<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

I love and prefer shields because it's just so incredibly easy to cap out your defenses ...and because I duo a lot of the time, so it helps to get some damage out there. A Gaussian set on build up, and the Steadfast unique and there your are. You need weave and CJ/Hover of course, but most every tank set takes those. If you're looking to be about as BA most every other tank out there, and put out scrapper-ish levels of damage, Shields are the way to go.

Thanks for the reply guys. I think Inv wins this round. I was leaning more that way anyhow. The tank is already at lvl 15, and is a Inv/EM...and then I realized that I now hate EM. But it's cool, I've deleted a 43 before. lol. Thanks again for the replies.

Invuln is ok for a tanker, it's just boring. I prefer invuln over shield as far as survivability goes, but AAO and shield charge provide much more entertainment over the character's lifespan than anything invuln has to offer.

I can definitely see how Inv could get boring and how Shield could be more entertaining, especially the damage you could put out. Maybe I'll make one of each. lol

Invul all the way!

I had a Inv/EM/Pyre tank that I made and level'd many moons ago, while he was very survivable he was VERY boring. About a few months ago I made a Shield/EM/Pyre and hot-dang, one of the funnest melee characters I've ever made. And to be fair, it doesn't take too much bank to reach the Def cap. It was a little easier with EM because I could mule some attacks with stun IO sets, but I've come up with a few Elm/SD Scrapper build's that won't be costing that much. So basically while the Invlun is overall more solid, the Shield is overall more fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Sure, the devs are supposed to listen to their customers, mister business 101 out there. And if I decide to start suggesting that the devs change the game from being about superheroes and supervillains to being about clowns that is my right as well, and technically Paragon Studios is supposed to pay attention to me. But I hope strongly that they assume a meth-head somehow managed to hack into my forum account and make paper airplanes out of my posts, because I hope they recognize stupid when they see it. I assume they will recognize futile just as accurately.

Invuln will serve you well, and with moderate IO investment it can become incredibly effective.

That said, a high end soft capped Shield/Elec will be an amazing killing machine with more than enough survivability. It won't equal the durability of a soft capped Invuln but it isn't far behind and offers considerably more offensive punch.

Invuln will mature earlier; it really starts getting good (considering the low level foes) in the early teens and at 18 when you get Invincibility it moves from good to very good.

Shield is a late bloomer; my experience is that until you get your defenses above 25% you'll feel very squishy. You start feeling like a tank about the time your defenses reach the 35% area and everything really rocks once you reach the 45% soft cap.

In the end it's your decision and neither primary will let you down. I rolled a Shield/Elec tanker in the issue 16 closed beta for the level bump... at 50 even on SO enhancements this thing is a monster; I'll definitely be rolling one once issue 16 goes live.

Shield is a still fairly robust tank that can cap def with fairly modest(ish) investment.

Build below has capped defence to all positions, 46% s/l resistance (capped when one with the shield is up).

Similar number of AoEs to /Elec Melee so could track across quite well.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Dethlock: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(17), ResDam-I(19), DefBuff-I(19), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(43), S'dpty-Def(45)
Level 1: Bash -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(3), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(3), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(5), RedFtn-Def(9), RedFtn-EndRdx(9)
Level 4: True Grit -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(5), Heal-I(50)
Level 6: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(7), RechRdx-I(7)
Level 8: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(11), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(11), Mocking-Rchg(13)
Level 12: Phalanx Fighting -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 14: Jawbreaker -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(45), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 16: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), Efficacy-EndMod(21), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(21)
Level 22: Clobber -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(23), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 24: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(37), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(37), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(40), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(40), GSFC-Build%(42)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(27), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(27), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(34), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 28: Whirling Mace -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(29), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(29), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(31), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(31), Ksmt-ToHit+(31)
Level 32: One with the Shield -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(33), Heal-I(50)
Level 35: Shatter -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(36), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(36), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(36), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 38: Crowd Control -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(39), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(39), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(39), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 41: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(42)
Level 44: Boxing -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Tough -- TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(48), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48), Aegis-ResDam(48)
Level 49: Grant Cover -- EndRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

• 4.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
• 4.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
• 4.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
• 4.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
• 4.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
• 4.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
• 4.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
• 4.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
• 10.5% Defense(Smashing)
• 10.5% Defense(Lethal)
• 11.1% Defense(Fire)
• 11.1% Defense(Cold)
• 8.63% Defense(Energy)
• 8.63% Defense(Negative)
• 3% Defense(Psionic)
• 14.3% Defense(Melee)
• 14.3% Defense(Ranged)
• 14.6% Defense(AoE)
• 1.8% Max End
• 20% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 21% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 5% FlySpeed
• 119.5 HP (6.38%) HitPoints
• 5% JumpHeight
• 5% JumpSpeed
• MezResist(Held) 2.75%
• MezResist(Immobilize) 8.8%
• MezResist(Sleep) 6.6%
• MezResist(Stun) 6.6%
• 4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery
• 4% (0.31 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 5.04% Resistance(Fire)
• 5.04% Resistance(Cold)
• 10% RunSpeed

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Hey Moondog, Do you have a rough number on how much that build cost?

It's starting to sound like a maybe building one of each for sure. The more I think about it the more a stronger offense sounds really good. After all, Dead is the best damage mitigation.

I have to say the build you posted terrified m, Moon. So many things that bring me to tears that I can't post them.

Yeah the salvage can be crazy at times. I'm definitely goin' to squeeze Weave in there, and I've actually got a couple of the Steadfast Uniques that I've gotten as drops and saving for just this type of occasion. So I guess I'm good to go. Thanks everyone for all the input. I'll keep checkin' back in case someone else chimes in.

In my experience, Shields soft-capped, with the option of OwtS is as survivable as Invul soft-capped with the option of Dull Pain (but without counting Unstoppable). Ultimately, the trade-off becomes one of the extra survivability of Unstoppable, which is highly situational but extremely potent, against the constant fluctuating damage bonuses of AAO and Shield Charge. In most cases, I'd take the latter. Soft-capping simply cuts down enough damage on its own that the underlying resistance and extra HP tend to be enough to hold things together no matter what.

Ultimately, my preference is Shields, due to its offensive-minded nature, even though I still love my Inv Tanker. They're my two favourite Tanker primaries.

Even more good points. I keep trying to decide on one or the other, but I really am going to have to make one of each. lol.

As for the /EM. I LOVED the ST damage, but for me personally, it's not worth revisiting unless I'm tryin' to make an AV killer or something.