Fliers (Not another Vehicles thread...)
By
AzureSkyCiel,
Posted on: 2009-08-23 09:31 in Suggestions and Ideas
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Personally, I'd go with Mez badges for all and minor mezres/mezprot and then possibly an accolade at the end of all of them....
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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
They all have inherent Mez protection to all except sleep, Spending more than 10 minutes asleep while using a flier form shift power would net you the Badge "Asleep at the Wheel"
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[Union Roleplayers]Kiken: Tick the off in your Observer Book of Lesbians
[Union Roleplayers]Nitro v. IV: we need a perma-man feature
[Union Roleplayers]Nitro v. IV: I'd trust you more if you did it in front of me
Gotta love dem dere RolePlayers
Shameless self-bump! Because I at least tried to figure out how this could work as well as limitations instead of just saying: "Gimme a vehicle power/power pool!"
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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It's a trap! | Not another Vehicles thread... |
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
When it explodes do you lose the temp power? Cause I think that would be a nice drawback to flying vehicles.
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I was puzzled by that too, until I realized that it wasn't a declaration that it isn't another vehicles thread, it's an ironic self-facepalming sort of thing, meant to be read with the inflection, "Not another Vehicles thread!" |
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
It's a trap!
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This is the biggest problem as far as I can tell (aside from the whole issue of having said fliers be bigger than the existing examples, which are already hard to believe thanks to how they would clip with existing geometry). The Kheldian form powers accomplish this by granting the character the suite of inherent powers at the same time that the Kheldian form power is taken.| -When form shifted as a flier, you would lose access to all of your powers but be given a new set in their place like Kheldian form shifts. |
Of course, the solution to this could be just as interesting or could be rather blasè. The powers could be granted as unenhancable inherent powers at the time of acquisition of the designs (re: mish completion). On the other hand, the powers could just as easily be craftable temporary powers themselves that are only usable while within the "vehicle" combat stance. I'd actually find this one to be the more interesting variant because it would actually allow you to "customize" your vehicle by choosing the armaments and having to deal with the ammunition issue by actually having to remake the temps on occasion (which would either mean having to buy the recipes for the armaments themselves from the vehicle dealer or simply getting them automatically memorized when you complete the various missions). You could even go further with this and make the vehicle itself be an inherent with almost no movement capabilities and require a series of other craftable/buyable temp powers that provide all of the other "required" capabilities of the vehicles.
Either way, the biggest issue is still that it begs the question of "why"? If the vehicles were stronger, there would be no reason to run around outside of the vehicle unless you're heading to get (another) one. If they were weaker, after the initial shiny factor wears off, no one would really bother with them beyond getting the badges.
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Oh, nice ideas, but as to the "Why?" question: Rule of Cool, for starters. We've been asking for vehicles for a long time now, plus, the ability to soar within a really cool micro jet or helicopter is just all too appealing, if only for aesthetic purposes.|
Originally Posted by Umbral
This is the biggest problem as far as I can tell (aside from the whole issue of having said fliers be bigger than the existing examples, which are already hard to believe thanks to how they would clip with existing geometry). The Kheldian form powers accomplish this by granting the character the suite of inherent powers at the same time that the Kheldian form power is taken.
Of course, the solution to this could be just as interesting or could be rather blasè. The powers could be granted as unenhancable inherent powers at the time of acquisition of the designs (re: mish completion). On the other hand, the powers could just as easily be craftable temporary powers themselves that are only usable while within the "vehicle" combat stance. I'd actually find this one to be the more interesting variant because it would actually allow you to "customize" your vehicle by choosing the armaments and having to deal with the ammunition issue by actually having to remake the temps on occasion (which would either mean having to buy the recipes for the armaments themselves from the vehicle dealer or simply getting them automatically memorized when you complete the various missions). You could even go further with this and make the vehicle itself be an inherent with almost no movement capabilities and require a series of other craftable/buyable temp powers that provide all of the other "required" capabilities of the vehicles. Either way, the biggest issue is still that it begs the question of "why"? If the vehicles were stronger, there would be no reason to run around outside of the vehicle unless you're heading to get (another) one. If they were weaker, after the initial shiny factor wears off, no one would really bother with them beyond getting the badges. |
Then, there's the ability to really fight in mid-air without travel suppression/using hover or playing a Kheldian and maybe to use as a platform and expand on combat for aerial battle without leaving others out.
Also, for why bother getting out of them even if they're too powerful? Well, you can't go indoors/indoor missions with them, that's a major thing. Another is just for the sake of using your character's actual powers, not to mention that not every enemy is in the air.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Rule of Cool doesn't matter much whenever it's not really the point of the game to run around in a kewl vehicle. If anything, it runs counter to the game's Rule of Cool because it doesn't allow your character to be cool.|
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
Oh, nice ideas, but as to the "Why?" question: Rule of Cool, for starters. We've been asking for vehicles for a long time now, plus, the ability to soar within a really cool micro jet or helicopter is just all too appealing, if only for aesthetic purposes.
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| Then, there's the ability to really fight in mid-air without travel suppression/using hover or playing a Kheldian and maybe to use as a platform and expand on combat for aerial battle without leaving others out. |
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| Also, for why bother getting out of them even if they're too powerful? Well, you can't go indoors/indoor missions with them, that's a major thing. Another is just for the sake of using your character's actual powers, not to mention that not every enemy is in the air. |
The question of "why?", is, and always will, have an answer. It oftentimes isn't a good answer ("Rule of Cool!"), especially when it's ignorant of the amount of work that would need to be done to get the system in game. Doing vehicles as craftable temp powers with craftable temp powers usable exclusively while in the vehicles would probably be the easiest way to insert them, but you still have to deal with all of the balance issues involved, especially if you want to make them worthwhile without making them overpowered. Limiting them in their use would work, but it's simply asking for an excuse to be more powerful than you should be but only for a tiny subset of the game that the devs don't really see as particularly interesting (re: streethunting; because differentiating missions based on whether you can use your stronger-than-you-are vehicles within them would just create a situation in which some players refuse to play on other maps because they want to use their vehicles for everything).
None of the reasons presented appropriately address the real problems as presented by the devs: how do you make vehicles decent enough to be used without making them better than what is already in game (whether based on transport or damage capability), and, if they're not going to add to the game in a manner at least as substantive as the cost to generate them, what's the point (re: they could either offset existing game functions and detract as much as they add or be completely ignored because they're not strong enough; what's the point of spending the resources to develop them if they don't actually generate a commensurate gain)?
As temp powers, I can see this working. My biggest issue, reading through this, was pointed out by Umbral - the time to re-tag every map as "Flier allowed" (or not allowed.) It would make sense to let them in some (Hydra men map, for instance) but not others (or most.)
I think perhaps you have too many varieties - I had come up with a similar idea specifically for PVP at one point, balancing 3 "classes" against each other, but for PVE... eh.
It might work better (purely IMHO) if, instead of a repeatedly craftable temp, it were set up (for an entire team) in a specific mission - something you need this tech for - and you get to keep it as a temp power (your hour or two) afterward. Generally, though, sounds ok to me.
Ooh. I just made a suggestion that's a lot like this one. I should have searched more before I posted my suggestion. I like your suggestion, but I like my version better. I'll leave my suggestion up, I think, cause it's a little different. You can keep all the profits, though!
Okay, so beating a dead horse, I had this idea for... Well, Super mobiles kind of implies land transport, but part of the problem with that is the geometry of the game's landscapes... So, the only simple solution for now is for such Vehicles to be fliers!
Now here's what I'm thinking...
About the Fliers:
-Fliers would be form shift temp powers you would unlock the ability to purchase (a recipe/blueprint) and craft (at a special crafting station) at level 25 or so.
-Fliers would have a static flight speed equivalent to the fly power at level 14. This would be to encourage people to still buy Raptor Packs or just take flight, since you'd already fly faster by the time you can get them. However, they do have the boon of not suffering from travel suppression.
-The ability to summon and ride the fliers would be a power suppressed in indoor areas and instanced mission maps (unless they're outdoors perhaps?)
-When form shifted as a flier, you would lose access to all of your powers but be given a new set in their place like Kheldian form shifts.
-Fliers would have about 1 hour of power use time before they "wear out". (I figured it could be justified since these are all new designs and heroes and villains require some high performance that simply mechanically exhausts lesser machines that are not PC made/designed)
-You may only have ONE flier until your time runs out, you cannot purchase all different types and have them ready and on hand. Only one until your current one expires.
-If you are defeated inside of one, it EXPLODES/the remains are instantly teleported back to the shop for repairs and your body is sent PLUMMETING TOWARD THE GROUND!
-Recharge: very long (About ten minutes, maybe?)
About getting them:
-As mentioned above, upon achieving level 25 you would gain a new contact to speak to. Heroes would report to a mechanic in Galaxy City (that place needs more love.), villains would report to an ex-Sky Raider Aero-Engineer in Sharkhead (That place needs something worthwhile)
-They would be store contacts and offer three different missions to unlock each of the three types of fliers, completion of this mission would grant you the ability to purchase blueprints to build one of the different types that can only be crafted at a special workbench in the shop. These blueprints should be more expensive than Raptor packs, after all, it's not just getting a flight power, you're getting a fancy form shift.
Types, Designs, and Powers: (This is where I'm mostly just making examples)
-I was thinking the fliers would come in up to 5 types; Mk. II Longbow Chaser, Arachnos Micro-Flier, Sky Raider Mk. II Sky Skiff, Vanguard Scout Helicopter, and Rikti Banshee. Each one would have their own strengths and powers.
-All of them would be fairly large compared to the actually Sky Skiff or the Chaser used already since some heroes and villains can get pretty huge. Well, the exception of course being the Arachnos Micro-Flier.
-All of them would be completely enclosed with reflective windows, this would spare the devs the pain of trying to generate your character actually in the machine.
-The fliers would have 3-5 powers they can use against your foes as well as auto-resist/defense powers to keep you from being too squishy inside of them. They all have inherent Mez protection to all except sleep, Spending more than 10 minutes asleep while using a flier form shift power would net you the Badge "Asleep at the Wheel"
So, what do you guys think so far, any suggestions to add to this?
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