Why can't I make characters in this universe?
By
Arilou,
Posted on: 2009-08-19 14:19 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Here's the thing, though - even if a character could take down a Kronos (to perpetuate the example) by out-of-game means, you still have to play that character in the actual game, and in the actual game stand-and-fight combat is the only option. You have two choices - make-pretend you won some other way, or stick to characters you don't have to make-pretend for. I have plenty of other venues for the less fantastic characters I make, so I reserve the ones I make in City of Heroes for the more fantastic end of the spectrum.|
Originally Posted by Clobbertime
What your characters can and can't do in a story is limitied only by your imagination. What they can and can't do in game is limited by game mechanics. Would it even be possible to create a game where everybodies' characters could do anything a person could think of for them to do? A single player game maybe, but an MMO?
We're all slaves to the game's limits in the game, but outside we have the creative license to express our characters in a way that better fits our view of them. Could a natural human take down the Kronos in a comic? Sure, but not by beating on it with his fists. In game? No, because there are no alternatives to beating on it to defeat it. In game you have to accept what the game limits you to, but outside there is no reason to apply those same limitations to your stories. |
And besides, I like a character who can look after himself
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Well, as fascinating as it is to muse about an ordinary human's ability or inability to go toe-to-toe with a Kronos titan I must say that it is still a far jump from Joe Average to somebody who just has to come from another dimension.
An elite-soldier with top notch equipment? Take that, Kro-frikkin-nos! A kenjutsu master with a katana that is so excellent that its blade breaks the light and cuts a falling grain of sand? Big robot-guy, you go down. An occultist who has stumbled across an ancient artifact that bestowed great magical power upon him? Kronos reduced to scrap metal.
So, if you want your characters to come from someplace out of this world that is fine with me and probably everybody elso for that matter, but if you think it is not possible without extensive pretend-writing you are probably limiting your fantasy too harshly. 
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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Says you!*|
Originally Posted by LaserJesus
P.S.: I freaking hate that slicking the hair back pop-up too. LIZARDS DON'T HAVE HAIR.
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* Ok, so they're not technically lizards.
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Well, that particular line came in relation to the notion about mundane vs. fantastic and the existence and merit of natural human super heroes, more so than about elsewhere origins. It's true that you can have a fantastically powerful character in this particular setting. We have them already, albeit not as player characters. I could list all the Incarnates and descendants of gods and avatars of gods and envoys of gods, but I only really need to mention one - Hequat, as faced in Scirocco's third arc.|
Originally Posted by Sitriel
Well, as fascinating as it is to muse about an ordinary human's ability or inability to go toe-to-toe with a Kronos titan I must say that it is still a far jump from Joe Average to somebody who just has to come from another dimension.
An elite-soldier with top notch equipment? Take that, Kro-frikkin-nos! A kenjutsu master with a katana that is so excellent that its blade breaks the light and cuts a falling grain of sand? Big robot-guy, you go down. An occultist who has stumbled across an ancient artifact that bestowed great magical power upon him? Kronos reduced to scrap metal. So, if you want your characters to come from someplace out of this world that is fine with me and probably everybody elso for that matter, but if you think it is not possible without extensive pretend-writing you are probably limiting your fantasy too harshly. |
There is literally NOTHING more that needs to be said. She is a goddes, and the mission's objective is to defeat her. I believe we need to do that more often
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Ooooooooooooh, yes. If my memory serves me right that map had some really strange lighting, too. That and beating up a goddess made for a really nice mission. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I believe we need to do that more often
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If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
Though to be honest, she's in a very weakened state when you do fight her due to most people having forgotten that she exists for so long. Gods need worship badly!
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Oddly enough, that might make a good basis for a hero/heroine - a long-forgotten god/goddess (or a Small God, if you read Pterry), who may have even forgotten they are a god/goddess. They do a small action of heroism, someone thanks and remembers them, and a little tiny taste of their mana comes back. They do more. People start whispering their name again, the power starts to flow... and so do memories, some of greatness, some troubling in their new mortal mindset...
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Originally Posted by Lazarus
Though to be honest, she's in a very weakened state when you do fight her due to most people having forgotten that she exists for so long. Gods need worship badly!
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Is it time for the dance of joy yet?
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Yeah, yeah. I know she's weakened. It's still cool because we get to fight a god |
Originally Posted by Lazarus
Though to be honest, she's in a very weakened state when you do fight her due to most people having forgotten that she exists for so long. Gods need worship badly!
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Really, we need more excuses to fight a few actual gods. The circumstances don't matter, the mere concept of it is cool enough to merit more of a presence. Oh, sure, Lughebu would probably be on the order of magnitude of the Hamidon (e.i. a raid), but I'm sure could invent a few more deities for the upper 40s just to spruce things up a bit.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I had something like that, myself. A character who was supposed to inherit an immeasurable power of creation and destruction, but because this power was scattered all over the cosmos, she started out not having pretty much any, and has been steadily growing in power since then as the energies condense back into her.
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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver
Oddly enough, that might make a good basis for a hero/heroine - a long-forgotten god/goddess (or a Small God, if you read Pterry), who may have even forgotten they are a god/goddess. They do a small action of heroism, someone thanks and remembers them, and a little tiny taste of their mana comes back. They do more. People start whispering their name again, the power starts to flow... and so do memories, some of greatness, some troubling in their new mortal mindset...
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'm not sure what you mean about Champion not offering the scope of character backstory that CoH can.
While it doesn't have the depth of world backstory (I didn't even know the Hunter-Patriots were Canadian seperatists...and what are they trying to seperate from? Is Canada part of America in the CO world? Is that explained?), all the street gangs do seem to be just dumped onto the street and there's very little variety between them. All the 'thugs' have basic members who use fists and revolver, more advanced members who use fists and chain attacks and top level members who are Super strength.
While in CoH the basic thugs of each gang have very little variety between them (each one has a member who uses pistol, shotgun, sub-machine gun, fists, baseball bat, knife or sledgehammer) it's one you get higher up do you see the different between Damned, Bone Daddy's and Calibans, one uses fire from demon evocation, the other uses darkness from necromantic magic and the last uses super strength and rock armour. The gangs themselves seem to be themed better in CoH than CO.
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I don't know what City of Heroes was ideally supposed to be, but what came out was a good game that didn't end up TOO close to comic books either in thematic or gameplay. To me, that is a good thing, because I was never a comic book fan. The chosen thematic of the game was a little more sci-fi, a little more fantasy and a little more action movie. Yes, I know that comic books can be these things and more, as they encompass a very wide selection of themes, but...|
Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
I'm not sure what you mean about Champion not offering the scope of character backstory that CoH can.
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But Champions Online IS a comic book game. It has all the camp, all the corn and all the disappointment that drove me away from comic books when I was a kid, right down to the "Freem!" and "Bamf!" visual sounds when enemies charge up for big attacks. Whether that's the game's fault or the intellectual property's fault I can't say, but the game is a cheesy representation of VERY old-fashioned comic books. I mean, "Mr. Zombie?" Seriously? Someone must have been up all night thinking up THAT pile of blandness. And the whole game is like that.
It's true - just like in City of Heroes, I can make everything I want in Champions Online because the universe looks like it can take it. I'm not sure if it has as much precedent for the full spectrum of weirdness as City of Heroes does, but finding that out would require paying money for it, something I'm not interested in doing at this point in time. The point, though, is that even though I can make-pretend any hero (but not villain?) I want, the world itself just doesn't seem to be as diverse, as modern or as... Well, as serious as what we have here.
Of all the games I have ever played, City of Heroes is the only one where everything seems to make sense.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Actually that's one of the reasons I'm not getting into Champions (at least not yet, might give it a try in half a year or so after they sourt out the inevitable teething troubles that all MMORPG's go through) It has an IP, and one that I'm not that interested in.
I think WAR is somewhat interesting in that regard actually, it has a theme, and it *sticks* to it. There's a big war, you're a soldier in it. That's basically it. There's very little content in the game that isn't connected to the war-effort in some way. It makes for a very restricted game, but also a very cohesive one.
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
What your characters can and can't do in a story is limitied only by your imagination. What they can and can't do in game is limited by game mechanics. Would it even be possible to create a game where everybodies' characters could do anything a person could think of for them to do? A single player game maybe, but an MMO?
We're all slaves to the game's limits in the game, but outside we have the creative license to express our characters in a way that better fits our view of them. Could a natural human take down the Kronos in a comic? Sure, but not by beating on it with his fists. In game? No, because there are no alternatives to beating on it to defeat it. In game you have to accept what the game limits you to, but outside there is no reason to apply those same limitations to your stories.