We can turn off everything else in Arena, why not the stupid Damage Resistance?
By
Alpha_Zulu,
Posted on: 2009-08-16 19:58 in Everything about PvP
Quote:
Can't cut mez resist off either, just those two last things and arena will be lovely again.
|
Originally Posted by ZeroMorph
Just as the title says, I was doing some Arena research to see if it was possible to turn off all the new stupid PVP rules for a good clean Duel, and you can, EXCEPT the damage resistance rule. No matter what I do I can't enter arena without my defender getting a +40% DR to all.
I need to find a different MMO, Paragon Studios just makes me cry these days. |
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com
Making movement slows worthwhile again would be nice - so would increasing the damage scale of AS.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
Oplz, just for one day, let me have my old AS back, make scrappers cry more.|
Originally Posted by macskull
Making movement slows worthwhile again would be nice - so would increasing the damage scale of AS.
|
Stalkers are kinda "Meh" now unless u have a dom or another stalker.
(You know its bad when two stalkers can double AS and kill a scrapper with FULL hp and can't kill the 1606 blaster in PFF with the same damage)
Quote:
Mez Res? When I was in arena with my 2 accounts I looked and saw all 0's for Mez Res and Protection. Check it again, maybe something changed from last time you were on, or maybe I'm misunderstanding you.|
Originally Posted by Ravens_NA
Can't cut mez resist off either, just those two last things and arena will be lovely again.
|
But you are absolutely right, if they would implement a way to shut off the rest of their silly rules Arena would be a beatiful thing, and alot of PVPers would probably come back myself included.
Below is a collection of Questions written to Floyd "Castle" Grubb back in October of last year asking him about the new i13 PVP rules. I found this very interesting, check it out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Concerned Fan: "Why should you be rewarded when you have put no effort into something?
That's a Rule of Life, work for what you want, it's not just going to be handed to you."
Castle: "Any competent PVPer should be able to beat any "casual" player using identical characters more often than not. Your "work" results in better skills and situational knowledge in terms of PVP encounters. The fact that you also know how to build a character so that it performs better in PVP is another aspect of your "work" paying off.
These changes should mean that the disparity between an average player and a PVP spec'd hardcore Player is lower.
Exactly how easy do you want your kills to be, anyway?"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Concerned Fan: "Because in high level PvP, where you have a ladder and rankings....no one's gonna bring an AR/Ice blaster.
Those kind of matches at the "high" end are "for real" as one would say. So you bring your A game, not your 'lol' build, your best."
Castle: "See this right here? THAT is what I am trying to fix. "For Real?" "LOLBuild?" Totally should not be the way things work. And, right now, that *is* how it works.
We won't get this perfect. But we definitely want to make it so that there are far fewer "lolbuilds" and a far greater variety of things that work in PVP"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Concerned Fan: "The general reaction I'm seeing is that there are varying degrees of dislike for these changes except for travel suppression. This is uniformly being singled out as a terrible change that will make this part of the game unappealing to both the current crowd and those that currently don't enter into PvP for whatever reasons they may have."
Castle: "You are correct. It is nearly unanimously hated.
It was NEVER our intention for bunny hopping to bypass the old suppression, nor is it our intention to let it bypass the new suppression, although this may be unpreventable at the moment. It was NEVER our intention that Speed Boost/Siphon Speed/etc. could move about unsuppressed; we just didn't have a method of preventing it prior to issue 6, and never wanted to revisit the issue without other changes after that.
Some form of movement suppression will be instigated into PVP. The points of discussion are how slow/fast it should allow movement to be and how it should affect Teleportation (I'm not happy with shutting it off completely, but have not found a better solution yet.)"
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OMG can you believe this guy? Floyd "Castle" Grubb knows that everyone hates the new PVP system and clearly doesn't care?!?!? In fact he doesn't even address the fan's concerns about how everyone hates the new rules, he simply agrees with the fan then starts talking about travel supression. His liberal nonsense of "Everyone should have an equal chance at kills regardless of dedication and hard work of the hardcore pvper" floors me.
He obviously doesn't understand that alot of fans take PVP VERY seriously and doesn't understand the concept of an "LOLBuild" or "ForReal" because he is so out of touch with City of Heroes PVP culture.
I hate to say this about a developer but this idiot clearly has no business developing MMOs and should be fired!!!
I basically want to pvp like it was, where my powers and mez works like it does in pve, i like breakfree's. I havent used one in months, i don't agree with mez resist at all, right now on my melee toon i can consistantly pound doms and trollers quite easily and never having to click a single breakfree. This change castle made changed the strategy of those fights all together. Before you had to speed rush the mezzer, and hopefully keep them off ballanced enough, and pressured to score wins before they get their bearing and or run you out of breakfree's. Your inspiration tray was like a mini game planning load outs for different encounters, it took actual thought. That's what we miss castle, having to think sometimes, now i just carry blues and greens ten each and most duels i'm still well stocked at the end. I actually take my time during those fights now and try to run them out of greens.
I like mez suppression, as it's cheap to just perma hold someone indefinately, unless they don't have breakfree's, or a buffer but having to stack mag actually mad sense. Now the support toons that come to zones dont even run support powers, thanks to this pvp. Had a cold on my team today and a thermal and they both had all solo offensive powers, save a few forced thermal choices like the aoe heal and the shield. It's not like the mezzer could just run up press one button and you were held, YOU CAN NOW!! lol You figure if you took 3 BF's and had a shield that would give you roughly 40mez protection. It would take a dom under domination 4-5 attacks to crack through that, and a troller 8-9.
Now during this time span you could be launching your assault, and properly done, and a little luck, victory could be in site. That was a melee scenario, every toon had a toon it didn't fair well against, and trying to universally diversify all classes like a FPS was a bad move. This ain't halo, if i wanted to play CoD4 or Halo i would fire up the box. Rock, paper, sissors made more sense. Valentino Rossi's Yamaha M1, will beat Jeff Gordans nascar easy, but Mario Andretti's Formula 1 will beat Valentino around the track, yet if you go around the track too much Jeffs carr will walk them down when their fuel is gone and win.
Such a simplistic yet effective formula we had, and hopefully we can get it again atleast in the arena.
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com
I appreciate your response Ravens and I agree with ALL of it. I hope Floyd Grubb and Matt Miller take these requests into consideration. We don't ask for much, but please allow us to battle each other in a way that makes sense, like the old days.
At least give us the ability to turn all these stupid rules off in the arena duels, at this point I would be happy with that, and I'm sure MANY others would too.
(Preferrably sooner than later, I've spent the entire night scouring MMO sites looking for a new MMO to play, one who's PVP rules are the same as PVE. But honestly I don't want to learn a new MMO, I understand how CoX works and I love it, with this one minor detail with PVP that I can't get past. What do we do when we have a lvl 50 Arachnos Widow with 1.5 Billion worth of enhancements and have found every badge and accolade available, the only LEFT to do is PVP and now thats gone.)
Strip the IOs and put them in something worthwhile for PvP?
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
1. PvP Res button won't happen according to Castle
2. If they still do they would have to adjust a bunch of powers due them already doing 500+ dmg on toon with 40+% res to all....<_<
Not really, if they gave a "no base resists" button it would mean people might actually bring Sonics to matches again, or maybe even take the Therm shields again, because they'd be worth using.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
I don't even bother using the thermal/cold shields anymore. Doesn't really do anything.
Quote:
Fixed
| Don't even bother asking the Devs anymore. It doesn't really do anything besides upset people who enjoy PvP. |
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
|
Quote:
I don't see where in that post Castle stated explicitly that he hated PvP. I see a developer that is trying to make most builds viable in PvP, yet competing with an engine and design left gutted by Craptic Studios (Played CO recently? lol).|
Originally Posted by ZeroMorph
Mez Res? When I was in arena with my 2 accounts I looked and saw all 0's for Mez Res and Protection. Check it again, maybe something changed from last time you were on, or maybe I'm misunderstanding you.
But you are absolutely right, if they would implement a way to shut off the rest of their silly rules Arena would be a beatiful thing, and alot of PVPers would probably come back myself included. Below is a collection of Questions written to Floyd "Castle" Grubb back in October of last year asking him about the new i13 PVP rules. I found this very interesting, check it out. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Concerned Fan: "Why should you be rewarded when you have put no effort into something? That's a Rule of Life, work for what you want, it's not just going to be handed to you." Castle: "Any competent PVPer should be able to beat any "casual" player using identical characters more often than not. Your "work" results in better skills and situational knowledge in terms of PVP encounters. The fact that you also know how to build a character so that it performs better in PVP is another aspect of your "work" paying off. These changes should mean that the disparity between an average player and a PVP spec'd hardcore Player is lower. Exactly how easy do you want your kills to be, anyway?" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Concerned Fan: "Because in high level PvP, where you have a ladder and rankings....no one's gonna bring an AR/Ice blaster. Those kind of matches at the "high" end are "for real" as one would say. So you bring your A game, not your 'lol' build, your best." Castle: "See this right here? THAT is what I am trying to fix. "For Real?" "LOLBuild?" Totally should not be the way things work. And, right now, that *is* how it works. We won't get this perfect. But we definitely want to make it so that there are far fewer "lolbuilds" and a far greater variety of things that work in PVP" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Concerned Fan: "The general reaction I'm seeing is that there are varying degrees of dislike for these changes except for travel suppression. This is uniformly being singled out as a terrible change that will make this part of the game unappealing to both the current crowd and those that currently don't enter into PvP for whatever reasons they may have." Castle: "You are correct. It is nearly unanimously hated. It was NEVER our intention for bunny hopping to bypass the old suppression, nor is it our intention to let it bypass the new suppression, although this may be unpreventable at the moment. It was NEVER our intention that Speed Boost/Siphon Speed/etc. could move about unsuppressed; we just didn't have a method of preventing it prior to issue 6, and never wanted to revisit the issue without other changes after that. Some form of movement suppression will be instigated into PVP. The points of discussion are how slow/fast it should allow movement to be and how it should affect Teleportation (I'm not happy with shutting it off completely, but have not found a better solution yet.)" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OMG can you believe this guy? Floyd "Castle" Grubb knows that everyone hates the new PVP system and clearly doesn't care?!?!? In fact he doesn't even address the fan's concerns about how everyone hates the new rules, he simply agrees with the fan then starts talking about travel supression. His liberal nonsense of "Everyone should have an equal chance at kills regardless of dedication and hard work of the hardcore pvper" floors me. He obviously doesn't understand that alot of fans take PVP VERY seriously and doesn't understand the concept of an "LOLBuild" or "ForReal" because he is so out of touch with City of Heroes PVP culture. I hate to say this about a developer but this idiot clearly has no business developing MMOs and should be fired!!! |
Castle seems to understand that PvPers enjoy their competiton. However when it comes to the implementation of new rules for PvP that senior PvPers will tolerate and new PvPers can pickup and run with fairly quicky, they are at a loss.
I don't see why it's so difficult to implement simple changes to PvP (only implement Travel Suppression to melee attacks and that is if they hit. Travel suppression shouldn't be affected by ranged; fast-paced movement is what people enjoy in PvP. Keep heal decay but for personal heals only. Fix defense so that its percentages aren't trumped by acc and tohit. Get rid of mez suppression as it currently is. Yes, mez shouldn't last as long in PvP as it does in PvE, make a base hold duration for a fully slotted hold and allow that to be increased with set bonus holds, allow stackable mez but apply a mag decay so that BFs function as they should.) Bunch of other things that can be sighted, but i'm not a PvPer so my knowledge is limited. I'm sure there's a list of good ideas stickied somewhere...
Quote:
Yeah Castle doesn't hate us. He's just in the unenviable position of making changes that will make an aspect of the game palatable for more people while not cheezing off a bunch of malcontents and ne'er-do-wells that have grown use to the 'old way'.|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
I don't see where in that post Castle stated explicitly that he hated PvP. I see a developer that is trying to make most builds viable in PvP, yet competing with an engine and design left gutted by Craptic Studios (Played CO recently? lol).
Castle seems to understand that PvPers enjoy their competiton. However when it comes to the implementation of new rules for PvP that senior PvPers will tolerate and new PvPers can pickup and run with fairly quicky, they are at a loss. I don't see why it's so difficult to implement simple changes to PvP (only implement Travel Suppression to melee attacks and that is if they hit. Travel suppression shouldn't be affected by ranged; fast-paced movement is what people enjoy in PvP. Keep heal decay but for personal heals only. Fix defense so that its percentages aren't trumped by acc and tohit. Get rid of mez suppression as it currently is. Yes, mez shouldn't last as long in PvP as it does in PvE, make a base hold duration for a fully slotted hold and allow that to be increased with set bonus holds, allow stackable mez but apply a mag decay so that BFs function as they should.) Bunch of other things that can be sighted, but i'm not a PvPer so my knowledge is limited. I'm sure there's a list of good ideas stickied somewhere... |
Let's face it, the 'old way' was very much blistering speed, quick reactions and absurdly overpowered builds. We still have the overpowered builds, but now they don't need Sonics for buffs, Emps for mez protection/+ToHit etc. Inventions have filled gaps and the global resists have stripped another layer of strategy as well.
The fact we had to gather in the Training Room for tournaments and tilts meant we worked at cross-purposes a lot of the time. Obviously the TR is meant for builds and testing first. We had to go there because server transfers didn't exist and it was the only level playing field. We all had our HOs/IOs/whatever there and practice/skill was the determining factor.
It did become clear, though, that advanced groups were just going to roll over new players (they still do by the way) but if they wanted PvP IOs and other rewards...they had to change stuff. Stripping away movement, buffer roles and a lot of the 'twitchy' nature of the combat may have been a large hammer to wield.
There are positives though. They include map selection, the PvP IOs, DR (yeah...it kinda stinks but things were silly before), caging suppression (still laugh at being Sonic Caged for 7-8 minutes, the good old days
), less unresisteds and so on. It's a balancing act I guess. They need to bear in mind vets, newbies, base raiders (if those come online at all)...some of the radial settings for Arena help. A global "I12" setting would be super awesome, or at least one that grants Mez Protection/No Resists.Wow, this got /PsyPunk in a hurry lol.
Anyway, we have what we have and at least we can remove Travel Suppression and Heal Decay in the Arena.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
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Nah, you didn't have any a-hole overtones in your post. |
Originally Posted by Neuronia
Wow, this got /PsyPunk in a hurry lol.
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Originally Posted by Neuronia
Yeah Castle doesn't hate us. He's just in the unenviable position of making changes that will make an aspect of the game palatable for more people while not cheezing off a bunch of malcontents and ne'er-do-wells that have grown use to the 'old way'.
Let's face it, the 'old way' was very much blistering speed, quick reactions and absurdly overpowered builds. We still have the overpowered builds, but now they don't need Sonics for buffs, Emps for mez protection/+ToHit etc. Inventions have filled gaps and the global resists have stripped another layer of strategy as well. The fact we had to gather in the Training Room for tournaments and tilts meant we worked at cross-purposes a lot of the time. Obviously the TR is meant for builds and testing first. We had to go there because server transfers didn't exist and it was the only level playing field. We all had our HOs/IOs/whatever there and practice/skill was the determining factor. It did become clear, though, that advanced groups were just going to roll over new players (they still do by the way) but if they wanted PvP IOs and other rewards...they had to change stuff. Stripping away movement, buffer roles and a lot of the 'twitchy' nature of the combat may have been a large hammer to wield. There are positives though. They include map selection, the PvP IOs, DR (yeah...it kinda stinks but things were silly before), caging suppression (still laugh at being Sonic Caged for 7-8 minutes, the good old days ), less unresisteds and so on. It's a balancing act I guess. They need to bear in mind vets, newbies, base raiders (if those come online at all)...some of the radial settings for Arena help. A global "I12" setting would be super awesome, or at least one that grants Mez Protection/No Resists.Wow, this got /PsyPunk in a hurry lol. Anyway, we have what we have and at least we can remove Travel Suppression and Heal Decay in the Arena. |
I don't like Arena to be honest. I prefer the impersonal, informal, casual PvP that is RV.
I just want them to turn off Sudden Death or gives us the option to turn it off. I was on a tank and got one shot by defender 2 seconds before the end of sudden death. (on test)
Just as the title says, I was doing some Arena research to see if it was possible to turn off all the new stupid PVP rules for a good clean Duel, and you can, EXCEPT the damage resistance rule. No matter what I do I can't enter arena without my defender getting a +40% DR to all.
I need to find a different MMO, Paragon Studios just makes me cry these days.