Ancillary pools are designed to fill in the gap of a specific AT.
Defender Ancillaries tend to bring in control and extra damage
you're suggesting a buff/debuff ancillary for a buff/debuff archetype. not really likely.
Earlier today I commented on a munitions mastery type set for defenders which would include
Cryo Freeze Ray - ST hold
Targeting Drone
Stealth Suit - Think Cloaking Device but non-suppressing defense and slightly higher values
Gun Drone
LRM Rocket
This more closely fits the Defender Ancillary type pool, but also gives something new and interesting to the AT.
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
Defender APPs offer improved personal damage mitigation, damage output and general utility, not team buffs.
Sure that's true, but the people who would take an Archery Mastery pool are most often going to be Trick Archers, who don't have heals or buffs. It might not be adding new abilities to the archetype, but it adds new abilities to the powerset. Plus, if a Trick Arrow/Archery character wants to keep their concept of a non-powered hero, they don't have any choice in the current ancillary power pools (darkness, power/energy, psychic, electricity). At least this way they can keep their concept and get to take an epic pool.
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The developers aren't going to create an APP exclusively for players who use one specific powerset, nor are they going to create an APP which inappropriately rewards all other powersets above and beyond any assistance they may need simply to fulfill a handful of players' desires to "fill out" their repertoire with a "healing arrow" for their TA characters.|
Originally Posted by The Seasoness
Sure that's true, but the people who would take an Archery Mastery pool are most often going to be Trick Archers, who don't have heals or buffs.
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Furthermore, lack of heals or buffs does not, in any way, hinder TA, so there is no actual reason to create a bow-based buffing APP, except to placate those few players who can't stand the thought of not playing buff-bots. If TA does need improvement, that improvement is best achieved within the powerset itself, not by creating a band-aid APP for it.
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| It might not be adding new abilities to the archetype, but it adds new abilities to the powerset. |
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| Plus, if a Trick Arrow/Archery character wants to keep their concept of a non-powered hero, they don't have any choice in the current ancillary power pools (darkness, power/energy, psychic, electricity). |
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| At least this way they can keep their concept and get to take an epic pool. |
If you're experiencing difficulty finding a way to conceptually pair an APP with your TA characters, drop by the defender or RP forums and ask for assistance. There are almost unlimited explanations for why TA characters could use any of the APP powers. You won't be getting a TA-specific, or TA-exclusive, APP, though, or an APP which focuses on team buffs.
The problem is, ancillaries are not and cannot be designed for specific primaries or secondaries (unless Castle decides that balance just isn't worth dealing with anymore... which is about as likely as Jay becoming un-sexy).
Edit: Feh, beaten to the (much more eloquent) punch.
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All of the defender APPs have a resistance based shield rather than a defense based shield so I think Body Armor would be more appropriate than Stealth Suit. Also LRM doesn't really seem appropriate for a defender APP. I'd bump Gun Drone up to the fifth slot and nick Wide Area Web Grenade from Arachnos Soldiers for the fourth slot although that might be a bit to good. Sleep Grenade would also work although I'm not a big fan of the power. It's damage and to hit boosts are smaller than Dark and Power (Gun Drone + Targeting Drone in place of Build Up) but it's control capability is higher. Similarly compared to Psychic Mastery it has more damage and less control.|
Originally Posted by Psyonico
Cryo Freeze Ray - ST hold
Targeting Drone Stealth Suit - Think Cloaking Device but non-suppressing defense and slightly higher values Gun Drone LRM Rocket |
So you get:
Cryo Freeze Ray
Targeting Drone
Body Armor
Wide Area Web Grenade (maybe Sleep Grenade?)
Gun Drone
EDIT: On the actual topic I've had a thought and really I don't see a good way to make Archery Mastery work. If we assume that it should follow the rough pattern used by the existing APPs (a resistance based shield, and some mix of self buffs and controls with a bit of melee damage thrown in) but also synergize well with Trick Arrow (it should work with all sets obviously but it should be designed keeping Trick Arrow in mind). Given that I don't see any really good options for it; Trick Arrow is a set that heavy on debuffs and controls but weak on buffs so Archery Mastery should probably focus on self buffs. If you do this you basically end up with something like Dark Mastery or Power Mastery in which the bow is superflous. In order to have an APP that actually uses a bow it would need to focus on controls (like Psychic Mastery) but most of the powers you could reasonably include are already in Trick Arrow. In order to make a bow based APP that actually used the bow without ripping off Trick Arrow you would need to completely break the format for defender APPs.
*speaks, waving a hand* How about an ancillary made out of passives and toggles, with the intention they don't cause any redraw? Tough Hide, Body Armour, Quickness and Grounded?
(Tongue firmly in cheek)
Well fine then.. give my Archery Mastery ideas to Blasters. >.<
I'm just trying to come up with an ancillary pool for Defenders that would fit a non-powered hero. Being able to control darkness, electricity, energy, or psionics is NOT non-powered.
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No, it's "not non-powered" for your characters, which doesn't mean others can't explain things for their characters to their satisfaction. All of the existing APPs can be reasoned as fitting for all of the origins in any way the player chooses, with a little imagination and creativity. If you can't think of a way, that's not a game problem.
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Originally Posted by The Seasoness
Well fine then.. give my Archery Mastery ideas to Blasters. >.<
I'm just trying to come up with an ancillary pool for Defenders that would fit a non-powered hero. Being able to control darkness, electricity, energy, or psionics is NOT non-powered. |
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I'd have to say that that's purely a side effect of WHICH APPs they have rather than being a design rule.|
Originally Posted by Adeon_Hawkwood
All of the defender APPs have a resistance based shield rather than a defense based shield so I think Body Armor would be more appropriate than Stealth Suit.
<Snip> |
The basic Psi, Dark and Electric shields are resist based across all ATs in the game, and Energy Aura didn't exist back when Defenders got Power Mastery so they simply went with the armor that "fit" which happened to be Resist based.
If Defenders ever got an Ice or Earth themed APP they would get Defense based toggles... because that's what the basic Ice/Earth toggles are.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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You could be correct; however as a counter point Blasters got Force Mastery which is based on Force Field but has a resistance based shield in it. Now admittedly Force Field doesn't have any personal shields (except for PFF) so it could have been a matter of convenience but a defense based shield would seem a lot more thematic.|
Originally Posted by Oathbound
I'd have to say that that's purely a side effect of WHICH APPs they have rather than being a design rule.
The basic Psi, Dark and Electric shields are resist based across all ATs in the game, and Energy Aura didn't exist back when Defenders got Power Mastery so they simply went with the armor that "fit" which happened to be Resist based. If Defenders ever got an Ice or Earth themed APP they would get Defense based toggles... because that's what the basic Ice/Earth toggles are. |
The other thing I'd add is that for the APPs/PPPs that do provide defense based shields to squishes they are all damage type based rather than positional based so Stealth Suit is still problematical there.
I say Defenders/Corruptors need some kind of Natural/Tech epic pool. As it is now, there really isn't an epic pool that meshes with a non-powered hero concept. I've continuously said we need Archery Mastery. It would be easy to come up with four new arrows. Here's my idea...
Triage Beacon Arrow - target ground, AoE Heal over Time for all nearby allies (Finally, the healing arrow we've always wanted!)
Smoke Screen Arrow - either target ground or cone. Stealths all allies in firing range
Force Field Generator Arrow - target ground, creates force field that protects all allies within radius
Ricochet Arrow - target single enemy, arrow bounces between several nearby enemies, dealing damage to each
This way, skilled trick archers could actually have some good buffs to go along with all their debuffing. C'mon. That would be fun!