dont listen to people who dont actually have a fire tank...thats for starters
half the people who post only post from what they see on para wiki. not through actual playing...case in a point when people tell you such and such a.t's are better but they dont actually HAVE one. are only talking from what they seen not what they play. big difference
be careful where you take your info from and from who..
i get alot of pm's asking about fire tanks ..most wont post here due to a couple of people who flame me..so ill extend the same thing to you...please feel free if you have questions..
ive been a fire tank since day one dec 2004..ive seen every nerf and buff a fire tank has to offer . so i know what to expect and when surprises come around.
and yes fire tanks can be built better then wp or invuls...its already been proven..its just up to you if you wanna take the time to build one up or not.
some do..some dont....like anything else in this game it all takes time...lvls come quick.but the right build takes more time then you know
Coming from a fairly easy tank to play you may have to think more with a Firetank and, be quick to click. Sometimes, mid attack chain, I have to turn on a 6 pence, which means weigh up my options quick and decide on the next best thing.
Blazing Aura is not autohit. You may want to have taunt to actually be of use if your accuracy and tohit is not high enough for what you are facing in the team you are in.
Healing Flames being Schedule A enhancements is what I slotted first along with damage and acc in attacks. It's hardly worth worrying about slotting schedule B till you need to worry about having enough around for DOs. Stack it and you can have tasty toxic res before running into toxic damage type dealing enemies.
A good combo is Fire Sword Circle, Burn and then Combustion. Combustion being the bigger AoE catches enemies leaving Burn and can tempt them back to you.
I found that before KB prots, acrobatics was my must have at 20, hastened consume and then using it on numbers helps with end and haste went well with healing flames to boot, but healing flames has been buffed since.
In fact I can only think that the first few levels are only easier now so its not bad at all.
Coming from a fairly survivable tanker in terms of common durability tests you may actually like RotP, and enjoy using it when you have to, rather than feel down about it. Firetanks are fairly paceful so sometimes being more liable to the debt makes up for the xp/rewards/time you make.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Hmm.
This is old and somewhat out of date, but when I was levelling my fire/fire tanker (which was some months ago), I was taking notes as I went. This might have some stuff in it that's of use to you, though I understand I commit the heinous crime of not including Tough in the build.
This was written some time ago, but it was a rough outline chronicling my passage through the first 35 levels of the game on my fire/fire tanker. By the time I hit Crey's Folly, a lot of my tactics had solidified, so that's where the majority of the information lies.
This is a guide. It is not a guide to how you should build and level your fire/fire tanker. It is a guide to how I built and played my fire/fire tanker. Everything presented herein is 100%, honest to god tainted by my opinion, by my ideas and my playstyle. If you're coming here expecting to find a guide that says 'well, take it if you like it, but I don't like it,' to hell with that.
Time to be bold.
The Build
Reforged is a fire/fire tanker. I opted to take as many primary powers as I could, and to take as many powers from my secondary as I could. With that in mind, his final build features everything in Fiery Aura except Temperature Protection, and everything in Fiery Melee except Fire Sword, Taunt, and Breath of Fire. Of those powers, I can imagine a case being made for Taunt and Fire Sword, but I found them unnecessary. Simply put, they're individual tools that have pretty obvious purposes - taunt is if you feel you have a hard time roping aggro off others, and Fire Sword if you feel your single target attack pattern is lacking.
Breath of Fire, however, merits a mention. I played a Fire/Fire Blaster to 50 before I ever tried this tanker, and Fire Breath on my blaster wasn't to my taste. When I hit the appropriate level on Reforged, I gave Fire Breath a shot, but found the attack was awful. Given its extremely long animation, I'd hope for an equally large effect, but it's honestly a bit of an embarassment. The cone is narrow and the damage is mediocre. In essence, it's not really an AoE and better compares to a line attack.
Temperature protection, when I took it - and when this guide is likely to come out - offers nothing meaningful to Reforged. Since he didn't choose to skip either of his toggle armours, having extra fire resistance is unnecessary in the extreme, spilling well over the cap for a damage type that he doesn't see himself needing to worry about.
Typical attack slotting is 1 accuracy, 1 endurance reduction, and 2 damage. As I levelled up and got more slots to play with, I simply added them to the powers that I felt needed them - no research, nothing beyond my extant knowledge gained from playing melee archetypes before and getting to know the attacks as I levelled. At level 35 - the point this guide ends - I resolved to just tough it out until level 37, where I will use common IOs. In fact, at the point I've finished writing this guide, he's level 39, and I still haven't gotten around to getting those common IOs. SOs do the trick, quite fine, and unlike common IOs, I don't need to be patient to get them.
I have veteran badges. I have Sands of Mu but do not have the Nemesis Staff. I imagine without Sands, the early game is harder, and with the Staff, it is easier. I've included a Mids' Hero Designer code chunk that you can use to look the build over in a more manageable state, and see what I did, and at what level the slots were added where.
[/code]| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1113;544;728;|
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|'@/@"/@3Q`HCMK\)=)JAYX861<LZ=,_>>>S-CY_+`%.+M`Z&9#WTWC@=]-SB74=9QQ]|
|XP=R1/PV@L1[H0HL$G@P-Y*H-8VH>>C*:#_5>16U<GCO3E7*?8>AR<R4@&B3T/C%X8^|
|O:A[XW/$I-C+PED'!=H\W0BY6B9PCX83,(H<1,O#*Q'$V]H]Z:1'#ANG$"#.DRT`[\O|
|>:'6+"U\H$U1N"`R+YFF1%;A2MY+DE(NTPE7#8F^@I^F45Y*L S64*KM$W=M$53!**Z,|
|T-\QPP\P;HMQK]H,[RW)>)LL-E[CA$C?,<</=$8N0KG-?H=\@Z1N,DE>=\OO4O'0?J"|
|U*>T05A\0?D&2H4J-.)P:X%;E4%+?(30>IK++*VR3]A$)+C6A%)"T'3#>)-MI$7;[)'|
|#A4U=54-TBZMD#?P6]%:#3PRD5*B.MB]9SI/5'G`^_@"FO*J,:=Z@OT"XP:*J'!4G.!|
|:N"PIJYFC1^AQ8_0XMOO\%MLPLAM9=3FT@Y3E^DW=%IGH]2Z^M,+-/OG:F7^?E5"-*G|
|@R57I%DD]D#0E:6R[@UD\V'^M3^;<)W^$7W@?H0>@'6/T#.$Y;E]@Y&)T@C#$[>RS.9|
|^UO(<#W4&XBW`/X1TFZ0:`@6`B%!%*"&6$"D(5816AB?`18?8'TG#B&@``|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|[/code]
1-2: Outbreak
You should not need a guide to Outbreak. If you do, just do Outbreak. It's its own guide. Seriously.
2-5: Galaxy City
This is the stage of the game with the least guidance. I was level 2. In about an hour of street-sweeping, I was level 5. I mostly did this by hitting bosses and lieutenants who were standing around on their own. You can find spawns of lieutenants who are lodged halfway into the wall, who can't fight back as you club them to death. I expect that bug to have been fixed, though, so perhaps it's not the case any more. Either way, you shouldn't need to do any cheesy stunts. I actually don't bother visiting a trainer up at the odd levels.
Note that I also, once I had a small amount of inf, put my two Outbreak inspirations on the market, one for as much as I could afford (usually around 9,000 inf), then the second (once the first paid out) for 250,000. This is a very reliable way to get starting funds. At least, it was. I don't know how the merit system will affect that.
5-9: The Hollows
Note, this guide was written and this character was started after the Issue 12 revamp of the Hollows. The approach was simple. I would talk to David Wincott, and buy 3 Lucks and 5 enrages. With that in my pocket, I'd run to find a big group of guys and huff the lot. Charge in, wipe the group out, and move on to another group, then return to Wincott. This process seems like it's slow - because you're running back to Wincott - but it's remarkably quick and lets you race up to level 9. Plus? It is awfully fun.
During this period, the enemy groups are mostly the same, except Bricks and Trolls have a lot of knockdown. Since I didn't have my Knockback Protection IO at this point, I preferred to focus on the Lost and Skulls. Something to notice is that you have protection from stuns straight out of the gate, but not against sleeps or holds. I was hoping to leverage that, but you'd be surprised how few low-level enemy groups stun compared to the high-level spam stunfest.
It's also worth noting during this period of your career, one of the things that differentiates the fire tanker from the other street-sweepers I've played is how much the damage aura plays into the game. There were many times in a spawn where the most endurance efficient thing I could do was just stand still and let the aura kill them. Aura ticks represent a very significant quantity of enemy HP at this level range.
9-12: Perez Park
Perez is an oft-maligned zone. My plan, which I was able to follow, ran thusly: head into the middle of any spawn that didn't feature a Boss and kick the hell out of it, ideally full of greens. This is a good way to stock up on inspirations. With inspiration-combining, I could rely on having a purple or two running at all times, and a yellow as well. Once you have a decent pocket full thanks to beating up -2 enemies, you can jump into spawns of white enemies. There are certain transition points between spawn types that are good for this - around the fountain at the southern end, for example, or in the northeastern corner of the map.
12: Detour to the University
I do the Invention tutorial at 12. I then drop the 'craft an IO' mission, and keep the luck charm as salvage, which usually can fetch about 50k or 100k. Of course, with the large number of arcane opponents you fight in perez, it's very easy to stock up on good common arcane salvage which is now selling quite, quite well. Either way, Steel Canyon is connected to Perez, so it wasn't a big deal. I then use the money made to buy DOs.
12-15: Boomtown
Boomtown is one of the more arduous places because you have a short lifeline, and getting to grips with what you can and can't handle is tricky. I recommend beating up -4s to start with, to get an idea for how a hazard spawn reacts, and how quickly they do damage, then slowly working up to fight greens and blues and of course, eventually whites. Another area in which tankers differ from other street-sweepers I've played. The tanker can afford to just stand in a spawn letting his damage aura do all the work, using inspirations or terrain to minimize incoming damage. Blasters don't have that luxury. For this reason, I found endurance consumption remarkably light, using scorch to pull opponents closer to me and letting the aura do the rest.
Combustion is also golden at this stage, because its size and that its DOT means it can do pretty good damage considering the scale you're dealing with.
15-17: Faultline, Part 1
The first time I went to Faultline, it was with a fire/kin controller and I remember barely squeaking it out, solo, as I struggled to keep Fusionette alive despite her stupidity. Again, much, much easier on a tanker.
22-24: Dark Astoria
This was pretty much why I made a fire/fire tanker. Zombies in Dark Astoria are weak to fire, and do primarily smashing and lethal damage. While you need to be careful about Avalanche Shamans (who have an immobilize, a slow, and knockback, to all of which you're vulnerable), you can rip through normal zombies like nobody's business. Again, Combustion is great in this situation. Don't be afraid to walk away from a spawn when it's mostly stragglers - because you're a tanker, you'll easily and reliably get them following you. Inspirations should fall pretty easily.
Remember, wiping out a spawn of greens can restock your inspiration tray without threat, and that can give you enough to slowly ration them out across a spawn of whites and yellows. If you can afford SOs at this point, this is less necessary, of course. The main problem at this level range is distributing the damage. Dealing damage to large groups with Breath of Fire is difficult (this is where I primarily tested the power), so again you rely on Combustion and your Aura.
24-25: Faultline Part 2 and Welcome to Oroborous
Faultline's outrageous plotline rewards lured me in to do it again, and I try to complete the Oroborous arc as well because it offers some nice XP and a break u in the flow of mowing through zombies.
25-28: Dark Astoria
Your AOE blossoms here with Burn and Fire Sword Circle. Before FSC, I would run into a spawn, melee its lieutenant until he was at about 2/3rds health, Air Superiority him to knock him down, build up, then Burn and Combustion. This meant that enemies would scuttle out of the burn patch (except the lieutenant, who was getting up), and then scuttle right back into it, dragged by combustion's large taunt effect.
28-30: Croatoa
Croatoa's a lot like Faultline, in that its huge plotline rewards encouraged me to come here. It's worth noting that in some areas in the forest, there are choke points through which large groups of Fir Bolg run, and when you drop a burn patch there, they will run through the patch, turn back around to the center of the patch and close in on it as if they can attack it, then turn around and head out of it, and then, if you do anything to taunt them, will come back in again, all without really leaving the patch for a significant period of time.
Weird Things:
- If you Burn Patch on the non-Fir Bolg trees in Croatoa, they turn into Devouring Earth Herders.
30-34: Crey's Folly
The Folly offers four major villain groups of note: Freakshow, Crey, Nemesis and Rikti. There are devouring earth swarms scattered all over the place, and Jurassik himself, but there's not enough to be had wiping out spawns of underlings to really make it worth while. So, four groups, with pleasantly predictable details. There's one special thing to note, however - Snipers abound in this zone.
Snipers are awesome. Whenever you want a drink or something, just fly over to a sniper, sit down and put Burn on auto. I'm serious. They're immobilized, so they'll just sit there and melt to death over time while you check your e-mail and download dirty pictures of Miss Liberty. They simply will not run, and as a tanker, you're not threatened by even the attacks of the +5s. They have such a slow attack routine you just wear the hit and burn 'em up. I loved wiping out snipers. You can even find some alleyways in the Folly where snipers will spawn at the corners, out of sight of one another. So you walk from one to the other and just burn 'em down.
During this level range, I recommend you break up the street sweeping with trips to Croatoa, to round out those plot arcs, and, despite the Folly being good until level 40, I prefer to leave it as soon as I can access Cimerora and the Rikti War Zone. Both of those zones are more specialised in what they offer, while Crey's is a little dilute. Plus, honestly, Creys has a lot of enemies who are dull to fight after a while. There's not the same feeling of velocity I got in other hazard zones. It might just be that there's less feeling of development, of evolution.
Freakshow
The perennial powerleveller's choice, Freakshow do bonus damage, have a powerful dull-pain style self-heal, they resist a lot of damage types quite well, they stun, they drain endurance, and they self-res sometimes. They are an almighty pain in the *** unless you have sufficient burst damage to wipe them out very quickly. As a fire/fire tanker, I had sufficient burst damage to wipe them out very quickly in an area.
Freakshow congregate in a few ways. In small, narrow areas you'll find spawns of 2-3 bosses. These guys I didn't find it worth the time to kill, because if they're even-con or higher, killing the second boss invariably leaves you exhausted, and given their propensity to resurrect, they will sometimes get up and kick your *** while you're taking a breather. Three equal-con bosses you can handle in a timely fashion. Four or five is pushing it.
The real gem way that Freakshow spawn is in a big street fights. They'll gather in groups fighting Crey or Freakshow, and in these street packs you can have as many as sixteen guys all in one spot. Bosses only spawn in multiples here if you're facing down two enemy factions, and they tend to generate smaller spawns. Ideally I chased down the bigger packs with lieutenants and left the boss spawns alone. One boss took a lot more time to wipe out than an entire spawn without a boss, so I just preferred the latter.
Freaks and Crey generate the best mobs. Crey Riot Guards are complete sissies, so they add to the head count but don't do that annoying Dull Pain stunt, but they generate bigger groups at +0 and +1 when they mix in Crey. Plus, the lieutenants are less annoying.
But, still, this entry is about beating up Freakshow. Fortunately, they're not very complicated. The only real tricks I know for fighting the freak gangs run thusly:
- It can, if you're fighting a group of +0s and +1s, be worth it to cycle combustion, then single-target the lieutenants down to about 50% health before you do the BU+FE+Combustion+FSC cycle. This way you wipe them out before they Dull Pain. If you're focusing on Freaks it's easier to keep on top of that tactic.
- If you don't like to keep on top of that, don't bother and just whale away on them. They're really not that hard.
- They spawn in big freak-on-freak packs on top of the silo you land on when you teleport in from a supergroup base.
Rikti
The Rikti sometimes engage in street-fights with Nemesis. They're typically heavily one-sided matches, with a wing of about 3-4 Headman lieutenants and a guardian taking on a same-numbered gorup of equal-level Nemesis minions. I tend to ignore the Nemesis in these situations because they scatter. Equal-con Rikti will fall in one simple attack cycle, which is why I avoid going for +2 and +3s. Why bother? Time spent ST-attacking things is time wasted, really.
Rikti monkeys congregate in large spawns, and they're what I recommend taking on for your aura mission. The Rikti spawns at level 30 are a bit too rough to deal with, especially the 2-3 boss spawns. In the trashed areas around the corners of the map, and around the Freakshow silo, you'll find spawns of Rikti mucking with things on the ground. These spawns are a hassle for me because I have this habit of cycling very quickly with control-tab, then attacking based on that. Sometimes you'll tab to the 'Strange Object' on the ground, which you can't attack or deal damage to. Since it won't cycle you on to the next target, I'd sit there trying to Scorch it and chalking my inactivity up to sync lag. Not good.
That aside, Rikti bosses don't do anything all that remarkable - they deal a ton of damage but they hit slowly, and you can usually keep ahead of them with Healing Flames. As with most bosses, avoid +2s and +3s. Communications Officers are the prize, though. If you see a spawn full of Comms Officers and minions, dive on it and rip it in half, then move on. Rikti don't have any real resistance to Fire damage.
Crey
Crey are the thorn of this zone. While Nemesis are easy and boring, and Rikti are exciting but risky, nobody gives you tedium like Crey. Crey spawns snipers, who are nice and easy. Feel free to treat them like any other sniper. The other kinds of Crey Spawns run the gamut:
- Street-fights with the Freakshow. Typically fantastic. They very rarely spawn bosses and the damage output of the Riot Guards is so not a bother for a tanker. The lieutenants don't have enough stuns to stack on you, so you're basically fine.
- A group of riot guards and medics around a single lieutenant who's as much as +4 to the rest of them. Avoid these spawns. They are slow and boring and annoying due to the resistances of the purple lieutenant and if the spawn is anything but +1 to you, you'll be fighting the purple patch to deal damage to the lieutenant.
- Small squads of two bosses and a lieutenant or another boss. As with all the small-boss spawns, I found them tedious to fight due to my comparatively low single-target damage.
Nemesis
These come in three basic flavours;
- A group of eleven mixed minions and lieutenants. Sometimes these spawns can be lieutenant-heavy and sometimes they're entirely minions.
- A group of about eight minions and lieutenants and a Warhulk Boss, and
- a spawn of about three minions or lieutenants, and two Warhulks.
I've yet to encounter one of these Nemesis spawns that's got more than four lieutenants in it, and these guys are a bit of a hassle in some of these possible spawn configurations. Now, as you might know, nemesis lieutenants cast Vengeance when they die. This isn't usually a problem because the lieutenants all die the same time, and the minions are dead before them. The place it can be annoying is fighting the Warhulk spawns, because the bosses outlast the spawn around them really easily. That means they heal the boss, and boost his defence, which is enough to be a problem.
The trick I use for this is to approach these three mobs in this way:
- The first spawn type, which is just minions and lieutenants is to charge in, jumping over the first rank and standing as close as I could to the central trooper, hitting Fiery Embrace and Build Up, then chaining Combustion into Fire Sword Circle and then, if it's available, Consume. Consume is a perfunctionary component there - it's just another AE attack. You might have to polish off a lieutenant, or if you position yourself too far away, the back rank. Combustion is a big area, but it's not quite enough to cover everyone. On the other hand, you'll be riding a damage high at that point and they go down pretty easily. You typically won't need your self-heal.
- For spawn type 2, it's similar; again, jam FE and BU, then close and launch your two PBAOE attacks while melee range with the Warhulk. Then, targeting the Warhulk, Air Superiority and Burn. Burn makes the lieutenants - who will be alive at that point - scatter away for a short distance, but the warhulk has such a long stand animation that you can keep him constantly on his tuchus with Air Superiority. He'll try to move away once he stands, except if you chain scorch. So, Scorch -> Air Superiority, and that'll effectively hold him. The burn patches will kill the warhulk and the air superiority will mitigate the damage constantly while the lieutenants maintain their distance, jogging in and out of patches. Typically, you don't need to use burn more than twice. So far, only Warhulks seem to have a slow enough animation to make this trick work. Even Freakshow tanks get up too quickly.
- These spawns are more annoying, because you can't keep two warhulks pinned in place. Instead, I use the AE opening and chain air superiority and scorch on one of the two. Fortunately, the damage aura makes up such a significant portion of your damage output, your whittling away on Warhulk #1 will leave Warhulk #2 on about half health by the time you're done. Then you can default to the Air Superiority juggling. In the end, these spawns aren't very fun to rip through - it's not something I can do very quickly, so I tend to prefer the spawns with a lone boss.
In the end, the reason I didn't stay in Crey's Folly all that long was mostly due to the lack of a feeling of progress. Tech salvage just isn't exciting to me, though chances are it should be. Getting a Mu Vestment is about the same as getting an Impervium, but the mu vestment represents the tail-end of one value curve while the impervium represents the top end of the other. Plus, unlike the other hazard zones, there was a clear unlock in the early regions - Hollows can keep you going until Perez, Perez can keep you going until Dual-Origin enhancements, and Boomtown can keep you in opposition until single-origins.
34-35: Croatoa
And this is where the story ends. At level 35, the character is pretty much fleshed out. Yes, there is more to come, for me, but that's not what this guide is about. At 35+, I have SOs, I have the War Zone and I have Cimerora, two zones that can be endlessly mined for content and which let me team with my friends much more actively. At this point, I tend to let the hazard zone sweeping die down. There's no big investment to save up for that I haven't already had a chance to work on, and the money-making steps up from just running missions at this point.
So there you go. One tanker's tale, from 1-35. It's not the only way, but it is one way. And I had fun as I did it. I didn't have someone else doing my damage, I didn't grind papers endlessly, and not once did I look at my tanker and say to myself 'Self, I need to do more damage before I can be satisfied.'
The question I have to ask myself is, is there anything a tanker can do that's more demanding of the tanker as an individual? I can't think of anything. You can claim, tanking for a team of 8, but then you're disregarding that the spawns for a team of 8 are everyone's problem, not just yours.
Either way. Lots of fun.
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I liked to compare different tanker types in DA as in one BP group you can have upto 3 lieuts, all shamans but different ones ie Avalanche, Death and Storm. At 21, on DOs I liked to aim to solo entire groups using "build only" and see how high in +lvls I can go with them. It was after ED and prior to healing flames being buffed in recharge so it used to be harder but anyway..its a good check on your playstyle and build as between those 3 Lieuts alone you would be -spd, -rechg'd, -def'd (like ya care |
Originally Posted by Talen_Lee
22-24: Dark Astoria
This was pretty much why I made a fire/fire tanker. |
), kb'd, immob'd, -acc'd (which if you do +enough levels could make you whiff air outside of the build up period). You can be affected by -fly, have pets spawn and have a slight end drain on you (with which it doesn't help how many attack chains to the end bar you put out).Firetanks being a Res set, find special effects somewhat hard to dodge and so what DA offers is the chance to see how you and your build fairs against them relying on as little as possible. Once you get SOs its easier and like I say with healing flames of greater recharge now its easier, the -rechg doesn't hold it off so long but still you can see how far up in levels above you that you can solo whole groups and hone the playstyle.
But anyway as a Firetank doing +lvls insp less its still a nice test. The -end and -spd can mean you have to cut fight duration to self by as much as possible before you try to wipe out a group. I did taunt pulls to an outside corner to tighten up before they can hit me or if they were tight enough just jumped in. It's no good taking on loads at a time and then running out of end before defeating them, so the idea would be to herd fast with least number of effects on you then do as much AoE as possible to defeat them as fast as possible before all the secondary effects take their toll/time.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Quote:
Whatever dude, they flame you because you treat people like crap if they don't agree with you. Being new to it I was going to post in a thread you were in and ask some questions, then I saw the way you treated people so I sent the other guy a PM for the questions. Stop playing the victim ....Other than that your advice is fine
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Originally Posted by Coldmed
i get alot of pm's asking about fire tanks ..most wont post here due to a couple of people who flame me..so ill extend the same thing to you...please feel free if you have questions..
ive been a fire tank since day one dec 2004..ive seen every nerf and buff a fire tank has to offer . so i know what to expect and when surprises come around. |
I've played fire tanker since 04 myself, as a matter a fact, it was the first toon I ever made and I still love to play him. I'll give some tips, some people might agree and disagree, but take what you want from it.
First off, I would recommend not planning out your build and trying to lvl into that planned build. Pick powers as you need them and at the level you need them. Basicly, you can take a bunch of powers that really help you out in early lvl's, then respec out of them later. I'm not saying don't plan a build out at all, but just lvl to high levels first, then respec into your planned build.
Fire tanks have a few too many holes you need to fill, and trying to take the powers you need to fill them pre 30 will leave you rather weak, at least in my opinion. However, now a days, with IO's, if your lucky enough to get the right ones early, you can use them to fill some holes right off the bat (such as KB prot and some endurance IO's). Basicly, as such for my build, I have tough, weave, and also acrobatics (yes, no kb io's), and of course fitness, because fire is end heavy. If you try to take a lot of these pre 30, then you might find your attack chain lacking and that you have some heavy endurance problems.
As I was building my fire tank, I took the powers I needed at the levels I needed them to survive, then respec'd at the appropriate respec TF's for my level.
Fire tanks won't really come into there own until their later levels, once you have most the powers you need and can start slotting good IO's. A good fire tank will take time to build, its taken a while for me to get mine to where he is, and even then, i'm still finding new ways to tweak him. Right now my tank has 36% defense to melee, bout 17% defense to ranged and AoE, pretty much no end issues, and 70 res to smash/lethal and decent res for the rest (fire maxed of course).
Remember, with fire tanks also, offense is your best defense, and fire tanks can be some offensive monsters.
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thank you for proving my point..
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Originally Posted by Thokor
Whatever dude, they flame you because you treat people like crap if they don't agree with you. Being new to it I was going to post in a thread you were in and ask some questions, then I saw the way you treated people so I sent the other guy a PM for the questions. Stop playing the victim ....Other than that your advice is fine
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Hey, Coldmed, I have an idea. Why not contribute to the discussion of fire/fire tankers, support your point, and further the public discourse, rather than sidetrack the conversation into talking about you?
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Originally Posted by Coldmed
thank you for proving my point..
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Um, care to elaborate? Or are you just saying you can IO out a Fire tank to higher standards than an SO'ed WP or Invul?
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Originally Posted by Coldmed
and yes fire tanks can be built better then wp or invuls...its already been proven..its just up to you if you wanna take the time to build one up or not.
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An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
Teehka,
A fire tank with decent set bonuses can do any content in the game even with limited support. Case in point this picture with my Fire/Fire.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=186787
P.S. Coldmed, Your advice is usally quite good, your just a little rough around the edges 
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Not trying to go one better because people bring whatever they like, but still I think that 2 defenders and 2 controllers can be over the top in terms of support for that even with an SO built Fire/Fire.|
Originally Posted by Brakner
Teehka,
A fire tank with decent set bonuses can do any content in the game even with limited support. Case in point this picture with my Fire/Fire. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=186787 P.S. Coldmed, Your advice is usally quite good, your just a little rough around the edges |
Gratz on that btw, gratz on finding a good team of people, the whole team generally have to play well.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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True but I tanked LR alone, no direct healer just a single bubble and we did GW with no Clear Minds, Fort or any status other than mine. No way a SO fire tank could do that with just a single bubble |
Originally Posted by Shannon_EU
Not trying to go one better because people bring whatever they like, but still I think that 2 defenders and 2 controllers can be over the top in terms of support for that even with an SO built Fire/Fire.
Gratz on that btw, gratz on finding a good team of people, the whole team generally have to play well. |
I have seen STFs fail even with an Emp and Stone tank. All I am saying is, it takes smarts and a good team for any Tank to truly shine.
Who were the rads on? 2 Rads, a FF & a Storm, I think an SO'ed Fire tank could do just fine on LR, towers or no. Worst thing, he'd have to chew on a med purp or 4.
Again, if you're comparing IOed out Fire tanks to SO'ed whatever, of course Fire looks comparable. My Fire tank has capped S/L def and mad end recovery. He's awesome. I would never, ever play him again w/just SOs. So if the OP wants to know how to play a Fire tank, the answer is IO the hell out of them. Aim for high def, high end recovery, if you can, high regen & recharges as well.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
Thanks guys, I appreciate all the tips here. It's pretty much exactly what I asked for since I don't like to build according to other people's experiences.
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cappped defense is like 90%....your most likely soft capped at 45%..theres simply no way for you to be capped on a fire tank|
Originally Posted by dave_p
My Fire tank has capped S/L def and mad end recovery. He's awesome. I would never, ever play him again w/just SOs. So if the OP wants to know how to play a Fire tank, the answer is IO the hell out of them. Aim for high def, high end recovery, if you can, high regen & recharges as well.
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also i went recharge and recov as well on mine....i had a 2nd build for def but never used it and dismantled him as hes now my farmer more then anything.what you can do if you wanna defense him up is to use your 2ndary for the defense bonus's and use recovery bonus's to help you end in your primarys
touch of deaths and guassians and mocking breavements are rgeat..plus the 3% derfense i.o's. then you can use gift of the ancients or impervium armors to help your recov. purples and pvp i.o's help out as well if you can afford em
ive had more fun on my fire tank then any of my tanks...hes an aoe beast and simply pushes out more damage then any tank i have. and its beyond fun...like said above though. hes a later bloomer but in your 30s youll out shine the rest
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Dark/Rad and Rad/Dark Defenders and Stormy were on the towers |
Originally Posted by dave_p
Who were the rads on? 2 Rads, a FF & a Storm, I think an SO'ed Fire tank could do just fine on LR, towers or no. Worst thing, he'd have to chew on a med purp or 4.
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, We did have the toggles on LR though so that helped a lot. We basically had all 7 on towers to get them down ASAP and to keep those annoying bugged repairmen away at all costs.I don't think a SO'd Fire tank could do LR without 2 source of shields for support.( IMHO ), with a bubble and a medium Purple I was at +86% Def and he smacked me hard a few times with Blue and Red towers still up. If it wasnt for a very fast heal ( thanks IO's ) and a couple of large greens it would have been failed.
Ok enough about my Fire, back to the original poster. If I had to do it again would I make a Fire tank? nope. They are a lot of work for something you can get with WP or Invuln for a lot less money. Do I enjoy my Fire? Yes very much hes an AoE beast, but if I was going to do a Fire/Fire today I would make a scrapper.
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Considering the hard cap for def or resist is not reachable by anyone by themselves, I assume most ppl understand "cap" means soft cap. My apologies for any confusion.|
Originally Posted by Coldmed
cappped defense is like 90%....your most likely soft capped at 45%..theres simply no way for you to be capped on a fire tank...
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Brakner: Even if LR was floored (2 Rads should take his to hit down by around 12% or so), he's still gonna hit a little over 10% of the time (AV multiplier & +4 con), so yeah, you'll get smacked, and smacked hard. Fire's real drawback in this case is its lack of a +HP power which can better absorb a bad streak.
Depending on how fast your team is at taking down the towers, an SO'ed Fire tank carrying 12 med purps and 4 med oranges w/a single bubbler (who can also feed him insps) should be able to tank LR unless he gets in a lucky streak (but that applies to any tank). Even easier to do w/large insps, which btw is all I keep stocked in my SG base. Having said that, I've never lead tanked LR on my Fire tank, cuz I only got him fully IOed out a few months ago (usually "tank" LR on my Fire/Rad or my Stone tank), but I did tank him for a bit on my Ice controller w/Hibernate on. That last didn't end well, cuz... well, Hibernate wears off sooner or later.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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Originally Posted by dave_p
Considering the hard cap for def or resist is not reachable by anyone by themselves, I assume most ppl understand "cap" means soft cap. My apologies for any confusion.
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not a biggy but some just dont know what the cap is ..let alone what a soft cap is..theres been a few posts last couple months asking.
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Yes way, and for anyones information, 2 years ago whilst on the US boards there was also a lot on "Icetanks having problems with Lord Recluse". I had solved the issues of taunt control and survivability with an SR "Scrapper" way back then. Firetanks can achieve taunt control and survivability even easier now.|
Originally Posted by Brakner
True but I tanked LR alone, no direct healer just a single bubble and we did GW with no Clear Minds, Fort or any status other than mine. No way a SO fire tank could do that with just a single bubble
I have seen STFs fail even with an Emp and Stone tank. All I am saying is, it takes smarts and a good team for any Tank to truly shine. |
Too much for some ppl to comprehend so it was in 2007 that people were immediately like "no way". People with an "I can't do it therefore no one can" mentality can stay well in the dark as far as I concerned.
Since then I have tanked every AV on the STF as a Scrapper for a bunch of scrappers and walked out undefeated.
I have every intention to do an all Scrapper STF with a Fire/Fire Scrapper tanking it.
It'll get done. I don't have "can't" coded in and limiting me.
Looking at your interface it's actually blindingly obvious why you can't on a MoSTF, just something for you to think about. Your build is possibly 95% of the way towards achieving it.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
The only way I can see this is if everyone in your team carries 8+ purple/oranges for you with a constant inspiration feed chain to you. Thats the only way I can see SO'd fire/fire doing an MSTF with only a single Controller's 18% bubble and no temp powers or direct heals other than your own.
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Huh? Is this a reference to defense or stats? I think a 38% Melee / 27% Range, 262% regen and 71% s/l is pretty damn good for a Fire tank with no PvP IO's. I could get a higher s/l or melee defense with Kinetics everywhere but would have to sacrifice ranged defense and AOE powers/attacks to do it. ( not my style )
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Originally Posted by Shannon_EU
Looking at your interface it's actually blindingly obvious why you can't on a MoSTF, just something for you to think about. Your build is possibly 95% of the way towards achieving it. |
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A med purp is +25% def. Chew 3 of those and w/even a controller bubble (and I'm assuming the tank has at least CJ and preferably Weave running), you're sitting at well over 90% def. Carry 12 med purps and you're good for 4 min on your own. Have the FF feed you 12 more and that's 8 min total (also an orange for each of those minutes). Use large insps (2 at a time for +66% def) and you can extend that into 12 min (run out of oranges at 8 min mark, but the red tower should be down by then), or more likely carry a spare large green or 2 instead. Either way, should be more than enough time to get through the red & blue towers for a decent team.|
Originally Posted by Brakner
The only way I can see this is if everyone in your team carries 8+ purple/oranges for you with a constant inspiration feed chain to you. Thats the only way I can see SO'd fire/fire doing an MSTF with only a single Controller's 18% bubble and no temp powers or direct heals other than your own.
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It wouldn't be my preferred way of handling it, but it can be done, and w/o the hassle of forming some insp chain or anything silly.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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The hard cap varies by AT and is attainable by a sword/regen scrapper but not much else as it's close to 200%.|
Originally Posted by dave_p
Considering the hard cap for def or resist is not reachable by anyone by themselves, I assume most ppl understand "cap" means soft cap. My apologies for any confusion.
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3 slotted Mog is 110%
3 slotted parry is 23% triple stacked for 69%
Throw in weave, CJ and IO sets for the rest
Nobody means the hard cap in posts.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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Remember this game is balanced around SOs. This game is also very close to a game within which potentially anyone can work well with anyone providing people build to do so and play in ways to do so, often ingame it don't matter, somebody normally has something you can work with.|
Originally Posted by Brakner
The only way I can see this is if everyone in your team carries 8+ purple/oranges for you with a constant inspiration feed chain to you. Thats the only way I can see SO'd fire/fire doing an MSTF with only a single Controller's 18% bubble and no temp powers or direct heals other than your own.
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When I build a Tanker I ask myself "How would I tank X for Y". Lets say its "How would I tank the entire inner circle for a trick archer?" To be able to do that is a 2 way thing, firstly you would have to of built to offer yourself the scope of play and the Trick Archer would of too. Giving nothing away I like to see TAs fully primaried.
Most tankers, I could say they build to play for themselves, put all their interests into their shields and attacks and then have people follow them about, but you should really try to know as much as possible about every power, other powersets and the AVs. Then work out how to combine abilities to create a dynamic that works "against an AVs limitations" and then hold it.
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Originally Posted by Brakner
Huh? Is this a reference to defense or stats? I think a 38% Melee / 27% Range, 262% regen and 71% s/l is pretty damn good for a Fire tank with no PvP IO's. I could get a higher s/l or melee defense with Kinetics everywhere but would have to sacrifice ranged defense and AOE powers/attacks to do it. ( not my style )
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When it comes to the STF there is actually no need to actually change any powers in your build at all, in short, your build looks, on the surface, perfectly fine for STFs with "anyone in team" from my PoV. Different people, different sets, familiar challenge, "different tactics". It's how you go about things together as a team that matters.I like people to look at the full picture and work it out, firstly lets imagine I had 2000 hours tanking play before I worked it out and you are on 500hrs. If you work it out by the time you get to 600 hours, then you worked it out in a better time than I by 1400hrs and so well "Congratz". To be fair though, most my hours were before CoV happened, I just like to say that. When you work it out priviledge others with the chance to work it out.
Edit: Just to be clear, the STF is about Saving the World and I think it is okay to have a build that will do "whatever it takes".
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
One other piece of advice, use dual builds to have one with tough/weave and another without but with more attacks. Then on any medium to large team you have the substantially higher durability tough/weave option, but small team or solo you can do more of the actual fighting. Only up to 39 on my fire/fire so far, but I've found nothing in the normal game (AE has the potential for much harder foes) that I can't handle for a large team on the tough/weave build.
I have read many a thread and have listened to many people complain about Fire Armor, but I don't care because I've seen Fire Tankers in action and they are monsters. I understand it won't be as easy to play as my WP tanker. WP is such a set it and forget it set. I love it a lot, but I want something different for my next tanker.
Now that that's out of the way, can all you Fire/Fire tankers out there who love your toons please give some advice as to what to expect? I plan to level this tanker up the old fashioned way (you know, not AE) so I'm sure I'll build my own strategy, but I'd like a takeoff point. What kinds of strategies do you guys use and to what end?
Thanks!