Lets talk strategies

Hey guys,
I'm looking for something to do with my second build for my WS. Also, besides that, I'm just intereasted.

Everyone builds their khelds so differently and slots them differently that it seems everyone has extremely different strategies. Depending on slotting I see some people rely on mezzing, some just rely on pure DPS, some rely on just lasting longer. So can everyone try to post their strategy for typical mobs and mention what kind of Kheld you are? I can go first so you see what I mean:

Triform Warshade

Solo spawn:
Made up of 4 minions and 1 LT typically
Activate Inky aspect and shields -> Put gravity well on LT -> Single target blast LT till Inky Aspect disorients the minions -> Sunless Mire if available -> When Gravity well is close to ending, Use Gravitic Emenation -> Switch to nova -> AoE -> clean up what's left and use Stygian Circle

Boss Strategy:
I don't have much of a boss strategy. Single target blasts in human -> Go nova -> Hover outta melee and blast him till dead (usually means I gotta use a couple insps)

Teams:
Run in with inky -> Use sunless Mire -> Gravitic Emination (If I can make sure the knockback won't mess up the team too much) -> Go nova -> Blast anything that even thinks about moving


My solo strategies really depend on having minions in melee most of the time. So what do you guys do?

On my TriFormShade(s)™ and TriFormPB I don't spend much time in Human-form. Just enough to self-buff, self-heal and use the minor controls I have.

My strategies are to use Human-form powers at the beginning of a battle attempting to create favorable circumstances for myself and my team, and then mostly use Nova/Dwarf and when there's an opening, quickly switch to Human-form and execute any power I think will help.

On normal teams things are usually not troublesome enough to warrant much alarm and things usually progress nicely without actually requiring strategy.

On All Kheldian Teams however, we have to match-up our strategies and suddenly running Inky Aspect alongside a PB that uses Pulsar gives a very welcome advantage without which the team sometimes may not survive!

A. Beat things to death with Dwarf
B. Solo using only Grav well and CJ
C. Spastic form swapping

As usual I try and make my play as optimal as possible, so after posting my strategies on my Tri-former I hope you forgive the analysis of yours:

Solo spawn:
Gravitic Emination gets them all lined up nicely and stunned for about 25 seconds > Nova > Emination > Detonation > Blast on the LT > Emination > Detonation > move on. I would even skip Gravatic Emination if I didn't think the spawn had much threat. After such a small spawn I can't even think Stygian Circle would be needed unless Gravatic Emination misses something dangerous.

Boss Strategy:
Regardless of if the boss is on its own or not I would use Dwarf form because that is 95% of Nova DPS without buffs from Black Dwarf Mire, and more with the buffs. Plus Black Dwarf Mire will kill any others while I beat on the boss.

Teams:
With a kin on the team I am mostly in Black Dwarf hammering the mire, without a kin the Black Dwarf form cannot normally keep up with teams so that is when I use Nova form. Every 90 seconds I drop to human form for Eclipse and Mire then back to Nova.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice_Storm Solo spawn: Made up of 4 minions and 1 LT typically Activate Inky aspect and shields -> Put gravity well on LT -> Single target blast LT till Inky Aspect disorients the minions -> Sunless Mire if available -> When Gravity well is close to ending, Use Gravitic Emenation -> Switch to nova -> AoE -> clean up what's left and use Stygian Circle

For such a small spawn I would think Sunless Mire is wasted, you should kill it in much less than 30 seconds, meaning most of it goes to waste while you move on to the next spawn, yes you get the damage bonus, but I don't think that bonus is enough to warrant the endurance or cast time on a small spawn like this.

Inky Aspect/Gravity Well is also wasted, one use of Gravatic Emination would have the whole spawn locked down in one place.

This means that (Sunless Mire discussion aside) you will take 2.07 seconds longer than me to kill the spawn, plus the time it takes to actually get close enough to use Gravity Well and back up again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice_Storm Boss Strategy: I don't have much of a boss strategy. Single target blasts in human -> Go nova -> Hover outta melee and blast him till dead (usually means I gotta use a couple insps)

This one very much depends how good your tri-form build is, in this case you are using human blasts, but they are worse than the Nova blasts so I don't see why you would open with those, unless you are avoiding the alpha - in which case Gravatic Emination would put most bosses on their backsides and cover that for you.

Blasting out of range works well on most bosses though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice_Storm Teams: Run in with inky -> Use sunless Mire -> Gravitic Emination (If I can make sure the knockback won't mess up the team too much) -> Go nova -> Blast anything that even thinks about moving

Sunless Mire is always a good opener, and you also made the right call on Gravatic Emination's knockback too

And I agree with you that Nova is the best form to spend most of your time in when in a team.

But; in a thread-hijacking fashion, this allows me to prove the point I have been making in a few other threads about optimisation. In this case regardless of build Ice_Storm is making too much effort to dispatch a small spawn, which could actually end up having an effect on his build meaning he ends up taking and slotting powers that are being used in a redundant manner.

Also if you see my comment about Sunless Mire being wasted on a small spawn that just shows that my gut feeling is different to that of Ice_Storm, later on tonight I may run the numbers and see who is correct (And with 5 mobs I feel it will be a close call either way, so am happy to be wrong).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

If you think sunless mire is wasted on a small spawn on 5 guys then what exactly do you think of as not a waste? Unless you're hearding two spawns together you're not gonna get a bigger spawn then that since this is solo. Also, the Mire often carries over for the first bit of the next spawn.

I'm only level 37 right now. When I'm 38+ I plan to probably spend more time in nova when I have eclipse up since Nova has such better damage and Eclipse should give it more than enough survivability.

Don't forget that Eclipse can also be used to drain endurance from enemies around you.

About the Mires, I use Sunless Mire almost whenever I can, even on one enemy since any power that does damage and buffs me at the same time is better than spending a yellow/red inspiration that I can save for later on when I really may need it, or could convert into something more useful like a Luck, DmgRes or BreakFree. Plus, the Sunless Mire usually does carry into the next mob, so it never feels wasted even if it's just from one enemy.

To add to the number crunching I was just looking at Gravity Well and realised it can be made into a ~6s recharge 350 damage attack which is actually very good, it has made me wonder just how far behind in single target damage a human only build would be.

But that is backing up my point about the numbers I guess, all three forms look like they may be able to get pretty equal damage (Single target at least), but which would be best? And by how much?

A spreadsheet beckons this weekend I feel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

Haha well knock yourself out with a spreadsheet if you must. I know I personally love gravity well. It's pretty much the only real good single target damage I have on my guy. This may turn into a problem if I ever start trying to solo EBs but for the time being I like it.

As for sunless mire - My reasoning behind it is that with 2 recharge enhancements plus Hasten, it's up so often that it doesn't really need to be saved. I can't say that I use it for only one guy like Lord, but if there's a least 3 guys then I'll use it since it'll be up in around 45 seconds again anyways. Also, it gives time to make sure Inky Aspect has sunk in properly so I don't run a risk of Getting caught in Nova form with my pants down.

So far my biggest weakness tends to be that while positioning myself for Nova's cone I tend to back into another mob. This only happens maybe once a day but it's not pleasant.

Good subject - I'm gonna get a bit detailed with my strategies...

For my Human PB, I play like a Scrapper. I charge right in the middle of the mobs (or right up to them) and start blasting/smashing. I don't worry about Mezzes whatsoever (whether Rikti Mentalist bosses, Carnie Dark Ring Mistress, or Gunslingers)- the 3-1 BF trade makes it a non-Issue.

Soloing, if the mob is large enough 4 or larger (but no boss), I'll get right up next to them, hit Buildup, open with Proton Scatter, followed by Luminous Detonation (if only it did no KB ), then I find the tightest grouping, run there and finish with Solar Flare. This often kills several minions. I'll then go for the Lieutenant, finishing him off with Radiant or Inc. Strike. All my AoEs have long recharged by now, so picking of any remaining minions is candy. Smaller mobs are only worthy of a few blasts and strikes.

If the Mob has a boss or 2, I go straight for them: Build Up, Radiant Strike, Inc Strike... then mixing in Solar Flare and Luminous Blast with those two until the boss is dead. The AoE from Solar flare often has all minions dead by the time this is done.

On teams, I'm much more careful so as to not cause KB and upset folks. I use Proton Scatter and the Single Targe Melees and Blasts liberally (no or minimal KB). If there's a good controller I'll use Solar Flare once lockdown is established. If my damage boost from Cosmic Balance is real good I'll often play much like an Nrg blaster would, hanging back and blasting, and running in with a Blap when I feel like it. If my Resist is decent for Cosmic Balance I'll often take the alpha just for fun

Solo farming the Cimeroran Wall (gotta mention this cuz' it's become a thing all it's own): There's two modes.
1) If Light Form is up (and resulting 85% resistance), I'll hit it and dive in, taking out the healer with a single IS, the commence AoEing. I can easily take out 6 groups or more before Light Form crashes, taking on two or more groups at a time (however many I can get via aggro cap). With the AoEs of Proton Scatter, Solar Flare, Luminous Detonation, and Photon Seekers, I'm literally mowing thru them - and I've discovered how to position so most of the KB sends them against the back wall. I lose very few over the wall from KB.
2) When Light Form is recharging, I simple hover over a group. Target Healer, the Build Up, Lum. Blast, Proton Scatter and Lum. Detonation. The healer is almost always dead after that and since I'm firing from above, no KB. Then I hover over near the wall. The Cimmeroran AI means they try to climb the wall to get me while I'm AoEing them to death. My Shields are more than sufficient to defend their Spears and Greek Fire Bombs. Once most minions are gone, I'll usually drop down and finish off the Lieut. and stragglers hand to hand.

Soloing the wall is so easy I feel guilty if I do it more than once every few days haha

In all scenarious, Defense isn't much of a problem. With all my Shields I have 35ish% Resistance to everything but Psi, and my two Heals are usually plenty enough to handle the damage that gets thru. If Not, there's always Light Form (rarely used unless wall soloing). If I hit Light Form - it's over. I am going to win the fight unless it's against an AV (I'm starting to wonder how I'd fair against some of the lesser AVs...)

I used to employ more of the utility powers like Pulsar, but I found that I could kill minions just as fast unmezzed or mezzed - why waste the time or slots haha. I respecced out of it. Same with Quantum Flight - almost never needed it nor used it.

Seriously, this toon is about as powerful as I can get her. I will see what she can do when I16 (and large large mobs) get here, but I may retire her for a while after that until GR - then she's gonna go bad, bad, bad,... Let the world tremble haha

Using your format, this is what I end up with.

Triform Warshade

Multi spawn I pad my missions when I can but try to keep the mob groups to around 15)
Made up of: I dont keep track to be honest usually 2 bosses and everything else is kinda irrelivant to me.
Activate Inky aspect and shields -> Gravitic emination in bowling ball style -> Move to the center of the body pile and eclipse -> Sunless Mire usually up. -> Quasar -> Mop up bodies with blotter and Stygian Circle -> Swap to squid and finish both bosses while their slowed from nuke and aoe blasts -> use Stygian Circle again and pet. Rinse and repeat alternating unchain when Quasar is down using gravity well to kill the first mob

EB Strategy:
Open with gravitic emmination eclipse and mire. Swap to dwarf and semi-slowley whittle him down applying eclipse as it is up to replentish my endurance.
Teams:
If squid team we just alternate using the eclipse mire nuke pattern with fluffies and squid forms mopping up for the nuker. If paired with humans same strategy as solo I just have to race the others to the mobs so I get first blood. Cannot be shown up by mere humans on the battle field.

Nothing is more fun than running an ITF with new people so I can hear "where is the crazy squid going?" FAZOOM! WHOOOSH! KABOOOM! "Oh, never mind..."

Dead mobs do not mezz, do damage, require mezzing or run.
Nuke, it is the only way to be sure.

Human Form WS

Solo (2nd or 4th diff to increase mob size)

herd up 2 or 3 mobs using whirling death/ inky aspect to grab aggro to get sufficient numbers for effective mires/eclipse then continue as per team

Team

Sunless Mire, Eclipse, Quasar, Stygian Circle, Extract find next mob
Kill a minion, Unchained Essence, Blast whatever is left
Find next mob
Repeat

Bosses
They don't normally survive the Mire/Quasar

EBs however are a pain as the eclipse and pets drop whilst still fighting them but a decent supply of purples and breakfrees help.

Tri-Form PB (Nova/Dwarf slotted heavily)

Solo

Mostly rely on Nova form blasts, taking full advantage of the KB where there is a void or Q in the mob - If I miss the V/Q run and return when loose aggro

If there is a mez heavy boss in the mob switch to dwarf and pound away when mezzed.

Team
Largely the same unless the team needs me to tank except try to ensure above mobs to mitigate the KB

EBs/AVs buff up first and charge in with fluffies in tow to blow up